'Hostage situation' portrays killers as Christians

[jono201 0]

What's bigoted about it? I would think it is plain common sense. If there is one group of people that comprise 90% of the population and another group that comprises less than 10% (not saying that that is the true percentage of Christians or Muslim, but just to give an example), you are in more danger of being attacked by members of the group with the larger population. It's a matter of numbers. Is that not accurate?

I would have to agree with laurend. Since we live in Christian nation (of which I am so often reminded). It is only logical that most of the violence is Christian on Christian.

[anonemouse 1]

and CERTAINLY a very small percentage would be considered of the type who would plot violence.

And the same could be said of Muslims. You are allowing the ones with the loudest voice (so to speak) to speak for the rest of the people.

I am concerned about the violent Christians in your part of the U.S. Where is it you live? What makes these Christians in that area so violent?

I never said they were all violent. I said that (emphasis placed now) "You may live in an area where Christians are all lovey-dovey, well-educated, intelligent beings, but it isn't that way everywhere in the country." I know beyond a doubt that 90% of Christians aren't violent. But I also know that there are Christians out there that use their religion to excuse their hate-mongering, that aren't educated, and that aren't intelligent. I know because I have met some of them. And yes, to me they are scarier than the vague prospect of being attacked by fundamentalist Muslim terrorists.

No, not in the case we are discussing, which is that some type of Christian extremists/radicals would carry out a terrorist attack.

But that is not what you asked. You asked:

If you were going to make a bet in Vegas as to which group you might exact some damage to your person...which group would be most likely to harm you...who would you put money on?

If you were asking about radical fundamentalist Muslims vs. radical fundamentalist Christians, I would still have to go with radical fundamentalist Christians, seeing as we live in a predominantly Christian country. Our country has 300,000,000 inhabitants. The odds that a radical fundamentalist Muslim would choose rural Kentucky as a likely point of attack is really, REALLY low.

[green 6]

Laurend is right of course if we place the hostage situation inside America for the vast majority of people who live there are Christian. If, however, you wish to consider the odds of American Christians being taken hostage in certain Middle Eastern countries by Islamic fundamentalists as against the odds of Muslims taken hostage in America by Christian fundamentalists the answer would be different.

But what may, and undoubtedly rightfully in this scenario, be considered as a bias against fundamentalist Christians might spring from other concerns: that they are the ones who are agitating for certain changes in civil rights; that there has been the occasional abortion clinic bombing as well as shooting of doctors who perform abortions; that they are viewed as leading a backlash against the tradition of teaching scientific and intellectual inquiry in schools.

[anonemouse 1]

So far, I haven't seen any headlines stating that true believers in Christ, (who have accepted Jesus as their saviour and professed it publicly) have been doing any bombing, or taking people hostage, cutting their heads off for website sensationalism. There haven't been any serious threats to our nation at all by 'Christians'. If I see a person with a cross around their neck get on a plane, I never find myself worrying about whether they'll pull out a box cutter and slit my throat and so far I've never seen one setting their shoes on fire. In fact, I find myself drawn to most of them, not walking away from them. I even came home from being away this weekend and one of those terrifying people had mowed my yard... egads!

I think there was a research paper published recently that found that the majority of so-called "religious terrorism" was actually "political terrorism". I think we can safely say that there hasn't been any serious threats to our nation by true "Muslims," either. Just because someone professes that they are killing people in the name of their "God" or their "Allah" does not mean that they truly are. IMO, they are using a nice excuse to go kill folks who have political ideas that they don't agree with. We can say that about both Muslim terrorists and Christian terrorists.

From Wikipedia:

Robert Pape of the University of Chicago has compiled the first complete database, reflecting a careful examination of every documented case of suicide bombing from 1980-2003. Pape's conclusions are contained in a his book, Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism.

Pape argues that the news reports about suicide terrorism are profoundly misleading. "There is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world's religions," Pape reports. After studying 315 suicide attacks carried out over the last two decades, the political science professor concludes that suicide bombers' actions stem from political conflict, not religion. [1].

[anonemouse 1]

So how many 'Christian' bombings/beheadings/hijackings are there compared to 'Muslim'? Are there any in the name of "Jesus Christ" ?

Counting the ones in Ireland and other countries, or just the ones in the US?

Because if you just count the ones that occured in the US, I am pretty sure that the Christians would win in terms of the number of bombings. After all, to my knowledge, the only Muslim attacks that've been carried out inside the United States (that immediately come to mind, at least) were the two World Trade Center attacks (the '90s one and 9/11).

And after all, it is our safety inside the United States that we're talking about, correct?

[anonemouse 1]

Muslim extremists may have actually killed more people, but that's more from a lack of actual planning and execution on the part of the Christian extremists. In terms of the number of attempts to terrorize, harm, or kill people in the US, Christians still get the gold medal.

Don't forget these, from Wikipedia:

On 11 September 2006, the fifth anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks in the USA, Christian terrorist David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing, deliberately crashing his car into a women's health clinic in Davenport, Iowa, which he mistakenly believed provided abortions.[6]

According to the National Abortion Federation, between 1977 and 2006, anti-abortion terrorism was responsible for 7 murders, 17 attempted murders, 41 bombings, 173 arson attacks, 100 butyric acid attacks, 157 incidents of assault and battery, 4 kidnappings, and 385 death threats.[7]

[anonemouse 1]

This is absurd. Where are the Christian extremists running around as homicidal bombers with vest packs designed to take out civilian population on a daily basis? Where are the multiple scenarios of swarms of violent armed GROUPS of Christians taking over the local synagoges, mosques, temples, etc.

Where are the Muslims doing this in the United States? What I've been talking about is the danger to us here in the United States. And like it or not, there have still been more acts of terrorism by Christian extremists than Muslim extremists HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. If we were in Saudi Arabia, then I'd say that we were in much more danger from Muslim extremists than Christian extremists, but we don't live in Saudi Arabia.

And you are ignoring Sharai law. Where are Christians demanding conversion to establishment of a New Papacy, strict interpretation of THEIR version of the Bible...where are the Christians suggesting we should revert to stoning sinners one and all for various minor infractions.

Um, have you ever talked to a radical fundamentalist Christian? I assure you that these folks do exist. They're the ones advocating the teaching of Intelligent Design and creationism in science classrooms (because that's what it says in the Bible), the outlawing of homosexual behavior (because that's what it says in the Bible), the outlawing of abortion (because that's what it says in the Bible). They're also those nice folks who stand around with signs that say "Kill all fags," "homosexuality is death," and "AIDS is God's way of ridding the world of homosexuality".

You are living in a very different world if you truly believe violent islamists somehow are going to accept YOUR version of 'live and let live'. Listen to what their leaders say, not the politically correct interpretation of some smarmy talking head reading the approved version of the latest assault.

I don't think violent radical Muslims will accept my version of 'live and let live'. But I also don't think we're in that much danger from them here in the US. For one, it's going to be a long time before Islam is anywhere near the dominant religion here. Secondly, there have been only two actual attacks by Muslim terrorists here in the US. TWO. When you compare that to the number of attacks by Christians, I think you can see the discrepancy between the likelihood of a random person on the street in the United States being attacked by Muslims and the likelihood of that person being attacked by Christians.

Do any of the world events compare to the savagery in your example, of the occasional otherwise docile pamphleteer handing my a printed tract about what God has in mind for my life???....

We aren't talking about pamphleteers. We're talking about folks who burn down buildings, drive bombs into buildings, send out death threats, murder or attempt to murder people, throw butyric acid in people's faces, assault people, and kidnap them. I wouldn't characterize them as "otherwise docile pamphleteers".

[mousecrazy 2]

Good grief.

Okay, Laurend. Have it your way, like Burger King. Still, I am going to have to pray for you, because I am very sorry that you live in fear of Christians. I am very sorry that you have not been extended the loving care and grace of Christian fellowship. We have had some spirited debate and discussion, but the crazy stuff that a few nutjobs have done should not be attributed to all of us. I see in many of your responses a true fear, if not hatred, of those who love Jesus Christ and believe in the teachings of the Bible.

The disregard of logic is frustrating. I, too, attempted to research some incidents of violence in the name of religion, particularly in abortion clinics (of course, we are conveniently ignoring the fact that these fetuses are being treated in a, well, violent manner to begin with...but let's not get all confused here....). The last incident I found was sometime in the late 60s. I think there have been some since then.

Does anyone want to wrestle with statistics of secular progressive violence? Atheist violence? Would that be an interesting pursuit? Or would that not be at all politically correct?

[anonemouse 1]

We have had some spirited debate and discussion, but the crazy stuff that a few nutjobs have done should not be attributed to all of us.

Did you not see "radical fundamentalist Christian" in my posts? I am by no means attributing the actions of a few Christians to all Christians. I feel that most Christians are loving people, just like the majority of all religions. Unfortunately, there are also some nutjobs and wackos, also just like all other religions.

Does anyone want to wrestle with statistics of secular progressive violence? Atheist violence? Would that be an interesting pursuit? Or would that not be at all politically correct?

Feel free. I await your analysis with baited breath.

Still, I am going to have to pray for you, because I am very sorry that you live in fear of Christians.

Mousecrazy, I don't live in fear of Christians. I was simply answering your question of which group would be most likely to harm me, and I backed up my opinion with reasons why. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question. Based on the actual numbers of attacks in this country, Christians win hands down.

And feel free to pray as much as you want. It isn't like I believe there's anyone listening.

[TommyO 5]

If I say it is more likely to be killed in a car accident than it is to be killed in a plane crash would you assume that I fear cars or that I beleive that cars are bad.

[mousecrazy 2]

Thank you. I do feel free to pray.

[anonemouse 1]

Does anyone want to wrestle with statistics of secular progressive violence? Atheist violence? Would that be an interesting pursuit? Or would that not be at all politically correct?

Ya know, I don't get this. You post about an article on people preparing for a religiously-themed attack, wonder why people are preparing for a Christian attack rather than a Muslim attack, and then get upset when people want to discuss the probability of said religiously-themed attack. That doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense, to be honest.

[mousecrazy 2]

Is that question bugging you?

Enough to really look into it?

[anonemouse 1]

Is that question bugging you?

Enough to really look into it?

Not really. Just wondering about your thought processes. In my experience, when people bring up a topic for conversation or debate, they generally don't complain when people actually bother to debate it. Did you want people to discuss Christian violence versus Muslim violence or not? If not, why did you bring the topic up?

[anonemouse 1]

I posted the topic of this thread and that is the acceptability of slamming Christians versus any other group. It seems to be the new fad for a MINORITY in America, who by the grace of God and the American Constitution, have the right to do so - although it would be a great faux paux to so publicly do it to any other group or groups of races, nationalities, religious factions, body sizes, hair colors, or any other thing that set them apart.

Yes, you did, but Mousecrazy made the following post:

I have not researched this, but I bet someone will (or has...or will want to):

How many people have been killed in right-wing bomber attacks on abortion clinics?

How many people have been killed when "things have been blown up" in the name of Allah?

I am not seeing the equivalency.