No Child Left Behind? How about adults?

green · August 18, 2007

Green- while I appreciate you comments and agree with a lot of what you have posted, #1- my son was not or ever has been a social problem. My post stated that he was sent to a school which mostly had discipline problems- his problem mostly was that he wasn’t a problem and because he was "polite, and a gentleman" as all of his teacher have stated, and he did not cause problems in his class, he fell through a lot of cracks. #2-Maybe I phrased it incorrectly, but I’m not asking my son just be handed a diploma, but the law in NY state make it so that each school district can enact a 'Safety net" and make 55 not 65 passing for Regent Competency exams. Not all school districts enact this policy. So if my son was in one of the school districts that have this safety net, he would have a diploma, and I wouldn’t be as frustrated as I am. My feeling is that either all schools in the state should either have this 'Safety net" or not. #3 my son has been a special education student since the third grade, I have had numerous conversations regarding my sons maturity, and whether or not he could survive on his own. To be honest, I don’t think at this time he is prepared for the world on his own, but then again my good friends son who just graduated with honors, isn’t ready either (and that’s her slant on it, not mine) I don’t know many 18 or 19 year olds that are. and as far as our school district goes, remember, they are the ones who sent me the letter stating that they have done their part and he has passed all of his requirement, their job is complete- have a good life. So that door is closed.

Anna, I am sorry for having misread part of your post. Thank you for drawing my attention to this.

bitteroldhag · August 19, 2007

I'm always very interested to see what people who don't teach think of education. They always think it's terrible. I taught one year of junior high and high school and quit for 15 years. The reason is that parents insisted on putting their kids who were special education students in regular classes. There is nothing I can do with a kid with an I.Q. of 30. Also the principal at the junior high called me in and told me to pass a kid who was a troublemaker. I said if I passed him, I'd have to pass everyone and he said, "Go right ahead." So I did. The kid with the I.Q. of 30 went to high school. People don't realize the pressures on teachers. Personally, I wouldn't teach high school for a million dollars a year, and I'd do a lot for a million dollars. I have taught at the university level for 24 years. I am one of the two full professors in our department who teaches Freshman Comp. I. I love Comp. I because I just love messing around with the students' minds. I lose about 1/5 to 1/4 of my class every semester, but the others hang in there and learn something. In fact, my students this semester decided to name me Dr. Hot Stuff! I wonder what that means since I'm 60 and definitely not hot stuff. But I'm really getting sick of parents blaming teachers. If you do not have a book in the house, how do you expect the kids to learn to read? I tell my students to read whatever interests them, including pornography though that's really boring. But students are probably more literate that we think. They manage to use the internet which primarily consists of the written word. Okay, "you tube" is big too. We must allow teachers to teach, not fart around with standardized tests. Every good college professor has learned that standardized tests are a waste of time. We wanted to get rid of that requirement for our M.A. program, but the president of the university demands standardized tests which cost the students big bucks. We simply ignore the results, and our grad. students are really, really good. Basically I just want to retire though. I'm sick of this crap.

only4me · August 19, 2007

I'm always very interested to see what people who don't teach think of education. They always think it's terrible. I taught one year of junior high and high school and quit for 15 years. The reason is that parents insisted on putting their kids who were special education students in regular classes. There is nothing I can do with a kid with an I.Q. of 30. Also the principal at the junior high called me in and told me to pass a kid who was a troublemaker. I said if I passed him, I'd have to pass everyone and he said, "Go right ahead." So I did. The kid with the I.Q. of 30 went to high school. People don't realize the pressures on teachers. Personally, I wouldn't teach high school for a million dollars a year, and I'd do a lot for a million dollars. I have taught at the university level for 24 years. I am one of the two full professors in our department who teaches Freshman Comp. I. I love Comp. I because I just love messing around with the students' minds. I lose about 1/5 to 1/4 of my class every semester, but the others hang in there and learn something. In fact, my students this semester decided to name me Dr. Hot Stuff! I wonder what that means since I'm 60 and definitely not hot stuff. But I'm really getting sick of parents blaming teachers. If you do not have a book in the house, how do you expect the kids to learn to read? I tell my students to read whatever interests them, including pornography though that's really boring. But students are probably more literate that we think. They manage to use the internet which primarily consists of the written word. Okay, "you tube" is big too. We must allow teachers to teach, not fart around with standardized tests. Every good college professor has learned that standardized tests are a waste of time. We wanted to get rid of that requirement for our M.A. program, but the president of the university demands standardized tests which cost the students big bucks. We simply ignore the results, and our grad. students are really, really good. Basically I just want to retire though. I'm sick of this crap.

Bitteroldhag- I can't comment as a educator, but as the parent of a child with a low level IQ-I can tell you that it also puts a great amount of pressure on child who can't keep up with or compete intellectually with a child who has a normal or above normal IQ. --I understand the pressure you feel to pass a child who really has not earned the credit to pass a class.

I wonder as an educator- what is your slant on "social promotion"- many times I asked that my son be held back, in the school districts that I were in did not believe in holding back a child. On fear that it would damage his self esteem (which, by the way, was damaged from being promoted with his peers, who now know they have surpassed him intellectually, and now have started to point out his inadequacies.

green · August 19, 2007

One of my closest friends is a public school teacher. She is a single woman in her 50s who has a caustic sense of humour and is very well read. She was teaching 1st graders in an inner city school for quite some years. Most of her kids came from Carribean families and all of them were the children of immigrants. She found that some of her students learned more easily than others but she was both charmed and amused by her kids. The big city stressed her out, however, and so she quit her job and left town.

Since then she has been teaching small town white kids who come from economically depressed backgrounds. She has found this a much more unpleasant experience. Many of her charges not only seem to have problems with learning, they are also socially dysfunctional. She has said to me, "Green, these kids are really mean to each other. I never saw that kind of cruelty when I was teaching immigrant kids. They were sweet little kids!"

She has also found dealing with their parents to be a nightmare. These are individuals who are entirely unwilling to take any responsibility for their children's problems; instead, they become abusive and blame the school and the teacher. She sees these children when they are beginning their school careers. She reckons few, if any, will complete highschool. She doesn't see any that are university bound.

And yes, up here in the Province of Ontario all students are shuffled on to the next grade regardless of knowledge. This has been the case for decades. Years ago I met a woman who had to really fight hard to have her son repeat grade eight.

My friend is now counting the years, months, and days until her retirement.

gink54 · August 20, 2007

I have worked in an elementary school for 13 years and I can tell you that we bend over backwards to reach the students who are low income, lower intelligence, and low interest. Many come from homes where the parent(s) have a low interest in their children's education. It seems alot of the work we put into the students from 8-3 is turned over by home life. There are some motivated students & parents who make it a joy to work in education, but I fear that number is shrinking.

mousecrazy · August 20, 2007

I have been a teacher in public schools for 29 years. I recognize the problems, but I have a question for the extremely negative people here: Which country has a BETTER education system?

Make sure that whatever country you hold up to the US also is a free, public education system that must educate ALL it's citizens, as well as any illegal aliens that are in its communities...AND it must educate all disabled and special needs children, up to the age of 18, mandatory participation.

I am interested to find out what countries do this. It especially interests me since so many people want to come to the US for a better education. Are these people just misguided? I hope someone will get the word out about these other places that have better systems.

lisah25 · August 20, 2007

I have been a teacher in public schools for 29 years. I recognize the problems, but I have a question for the extremely negative people here: Which country has a BETTER education system?
Make sure that whatever country you hold up to the US also is a free, public education system that must educate ALL it's citizens, as well as any illegal aliens that are in its communities...AND it must educate all disabled and special needs children, up to the age of 18, mandatory participation.

I am interested to find out what countries do this. It especially interests me since so many people want to come to the US for a better education. Are these people just misguided? I hope someone will get the word out about these other places that have better systems.

It's an interesting question, I honestly don't know. But I'm not sure it really matters in the end. It's nice to be the best, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to improve where we are.

I know a lot of public school employees, teachers and others, and am almost always impressed with how hard they work and how much they care about their students.

green · August 20, 2007

I have been a teacher in public schools for 29 years. I recognize the problems, but I have a question for the extremely negative people here: Which country has a BETTER education system?
Make sure that whatever country you hold up to the US also is a free, public education system that must educate ALL it's citizens, as well as any illegal aliens that are in its communities...AND it must educate all disabled and special needs children, up to the age of 18, mandatory participation.

I am interested to find out what countries do this. It especially interests me since so many people want to come to the US for a better education. Are these people just misguided? I hope someone will get the word out about these other places that have better systems.

When applying an international yardstick to this business of measuring the quality of education available to all citizens of free and democratic countries there are a number of European countries which do perform better than either the United States or Canada. Japan is another democratic country which has a superb education system in place.

I believe that you will discover that most individuals who wish to come to Canada and the United States wish to come here for reasons of political freedom, and for economic opportunity. While it is true that those people who come from grindingly poor backgrounds may find our educational systems to be an attractive option, certainly those highly educated families who have immigrated to Canada from such places as the former Soviet block nations are none too impressed by what passes for public school education on this side of the Atlantic. And most Europeans whom I know find our level of general knowledge to be not so hot.

In my opinion knee-jerk patriotism was not an appropriate nor profitable response to the discussion on the table here. The initial discussion was about failures within the framework of the current approach to education. No one had any intention of dissing America until you introduced the issue in your above quoted post. And as you raised the issue you will see that I have provided you with my viewpoint on the topic.

mousecrazy · August 22, 2007

There you have it.

A non-answer, and an attack on the questioner, not the question.

This is exactly why I rarely visit this section. You can have it to yourselves, again.

green · August 23, 2007

There you have it.
A non-answer, and an attack on the questioner, not the question.

This is exactly why I rarely visit this section. You can have it to yourselves, again.

Oh Mouse, I am so sorry that you feel this way but at the same time my comments still stand. We were discussing the problems with the school system - one which is shared between the U.S. and Canada educational systems in my opinion - and then you did react by viewing this discussion as being an anti-American attack. In fact it was not and I am assuming that you simply misread the previous series of posts. Please do read these again and give us your comments. You have had many years of teaching experience and you must have much to contribute.