So mad that I can't see straight...

[myfoursons 0]

My husband's boss lives down the road from us. He has a son the same age as one of my sons. They go to school together and they are friends. My husband's boss is new to the area and had moved from Alabama. Just for additional information that will be needed later in the story, they are a black family and we are white.

Anyway, their little boy wanted to know if two of my boys could go to Bible study with him on Wednesday night. Our kids told us this and my husband wanted to confirm this. So, while at work, he asked his boss about it so that he could get the details. Our children had in fact been invited.

We were curious as to which church they intended because our town has a bajillion churches of varying denominations. So, he asked his boss what kind of church they attended? Then he said what I find to be the most offensive thing. His response was, "Don't worry, it's an all white church."

Is it just me, or was this totally uncalled for? I feel like he was implying that we were racists. We are far from it. I grew up in a majority black town. I have biracial nephews. I have never thought anything about color as being a factor with the places my children go or who they hang out with.

I am thinking of confronting him to make it clear that when we wanted to know about the church it had nothing to do with race. But, it is my husband's boss and I don't want to create any ill feelings. Any advice?

[Alexandra 55]

Wow, that does seem a totally uncalled-for response. But I don't think there's anything to be gained by confronting him--it was due to his defensiveness and wasn't an implication of anything against you or your husband.

Chalk it up to his living a lifetime of slights and suspicions that he still is responding to. Don't take it personally.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

My husband's boss lives down the road from us. He has a son the same age as one of my sons. They go to school together and they are friends. My husband's boss is new to the area and had moved from Alabama. Just for additional information that will be needed later in the story, they are a black family and we are white.

Anyway, their little boy wanted to know if two of my boys could go to Bible study with him on Wednesday night. Our kids told us this and my husband wanted to confirm this. So, while at work, he asked his boss about it so that he could get the details. Our children had in fact been invited.

We were curious as to which church they intended because our town has a bajillion churches of varying denominations. So, he asked his boss what kind of church they attended? Then he said what I find to be the most offensive thing. His response was, "Don't worry, it's an all white church."

Is it just me, or was this totally uncalled for? I feel like he was implying that we were racists. We are far from it. I grew up in a majority black town. I have biracial nephews. I have never thought anything about color as being a factor with the places my children go or who they hang out with.

I am thinking of confronting him to make it clear that when we wanted to know about the church it had nothing to do with race. But, it is my husband's boss and I don't want to create any ill feelings. Any advice?

Being Black doesn't make someone tolerant anymore than being White makes someone a racist.

Sometimes Blacks are hurt so often by Whites that they just assume every question or comment has to do with race or racial stereotyping. Some Blacks do not realize that whites too can be the victims of racial injustice.

Where I used to work, very few of the Blacks were aware of the different ethnic groups. When one White guy was trying to describe a fellow mechanic to a Black mechanic, he said "You know, that old Polish guy". The Black man didn't know a Polish surname from an Italian name, from a Irish name, etc. There is a lot of favoritism between White ethnic groups. I know of major companies (Fortune 500) where at one time, an Italian was doomed or an Irishmen was slated to the junk pile when it came time for promotions.

Many Blacks do not understand this. They however, have one major thing going against them; while the different ethnic groups eventually blend in, Blacks are always easy to spot and easy to discriminate against, so White ethnic groups always pass them on the totem pole over time.

A Black friend of mine admitted that after 911, he felt that he had moved up, because then Arabs were more disliked than him.

Note: When I said Polish, I meant Polish-American, etc.

[marjon9 6]

I understand how you feel when this man made the comment about the all white church, but I also find that I basically agree with TOM. It's really hard to be black in America. And in some ways it's even harder now that most whites feel like they have overcome racism. Black people are surrounded by white people who seem friendly and genuinely believe they are not racist, and yet, over a lifetime, black people almost always earn less and get fewer promotions on the job, get stopped by the police while driving about 10 times more often than white people, receive inferior health care as a matter of course, etc. So the racism is institutionalized and insidious, and much less overt. I can imagine that a world like this can make a person a bit crazy, and a bit angry.

I lived in Alabama for two years and the people there have made huge progress with racism, but in all fairness there is no doubt that it is even harder for blacks in the South, even today. Only forty years ago there were lynchings, blacks at the back of the bus, white-only lunch counters, etc. Some of this was found in the North but the South was worse.

So, I'm not trying to suggest in any way that myfoursons is really a racist or anything of that nature. I'm just saying that I can understand why a lot of black people are angry. Perhaps it's patronizing on my part to "cut them some slack," but I admit that I find myself doing that.

[Lap_dancer 8]

My husband's boss lives down the road from us. He has a son the same age as one of my sons. They go to school together and they are friends. My husband's boss is new to the area and had moved from Alabama. Just for additional information that will be needed later in the story, they are a black family and we are white.

Anyway, their little boy wanted to know if two of my boys could go to Bible study with him on Wednesday night. Our kids told us this and my husband wanted to confirm this. So, while at work, he asked his boss about it so that he could get the details. Our children had in fact been invited.

We were curious as to which church they intended because our town has a bajillion churches of varying denominations. So, he asked his boss what kind of church they attended? Then he said what I find to be the most offensive thing. His response was, "Don't worry, it's an all white church."

Is it just me, or was this totally uncalled for? I feel like he was implying that we were racists. We are far from it. I grew up in a majority black town. I have biracial nephews. I have never thought anything about color as being a factor with the places my children go or who they hang out with.

I am thinking of confronting him to make it clear that when we wanted to know about the church it had nothing to do with race. But, it is my husband's boss and I don't want to create any ill feelings. Any advice?

I get where the boss is coming from. He wrongly assumed your family was racist but on the other hand he is in Alabama and his family is black.

My father's family isn't a broad representation of what prejudices are still kicking in Alabama but I have many relatives there with friends and with each visit it stuns me to hear what comes out of people's mouths so I get where the boss is coming from. You and your husband never got an answer to your question which was What KIND of church is it? I would ask again like this:

I'm glad (your son's name) has found a good friend in (bosses son's name). They seem to get along well. You know the other day I asked what kind of church you went to, I mean what KIND of church as in what denomination? (drop the racial thing don't bring it up unless they do and if they do say: Well RACE never crossed my mind).

[Lap_dancer 8]

One last thought. That knee jerk remark the boss make about it being a white church made me think about folks who are hypervigilant. Did you ever see the move "Uncle Buck"? In one scene, the main character (Buck (Russell) goes to the school to meet with his niece Maisy's principal. This principal has a large mole on her face. Uncle Buck is in the office and of course he doesn't want to mention her very obvious mole but introduces himself as "Buck Melanoma, Moley Russell's wart" and further stumbles along with: "I'm the wart. She's my tumor, my growth, my pimple. I'm ''Uncle Wart.'' Just old Buck ''Wart'' Russell".

Racism. The white elephant in the living room.

[CJULZGO 0]

Then when the teacher suggests that the young niece isn't serious about her school career, Buck says to the teacher,"Here's a quarter, why don't you go down town and have a rat knaw that thing off your face."

Sorry, one of my favorite scenes from one of my favorite movies. A very funny line in reaction to a remark by a stupid person.

I'm not saying your neighbor/husband's boss is stupid. I think what he said was a reaction due to past experience.

If you decide to speak to him do it carefully, don't say something you might regret.

[jahair 0]

Is it just me, or was this totally uncalled for? I feel like he was implying that we were racists. We are far from it. I grew up in a majority black town. I have biracial nephews. I have never thought anything about color as being a factor with the places my children go or who they hang out with.

I am thinking of confronting him to make it clear that when we wanted to know about the church it had nothing to do with race. But, it is my husband's boss and I don't want to create any ill feelings. Any advice?

My four sons, you've gotten some very good responses to your original question and I'd like to add my 2 cents.

The fact that you grew up in a mostly black town and you have biracial nephews is commendable, but as information, it was not available to this man to help him know where your husband's question was coming from. Granted, the snappish comment to your husband was evidence of an apparent overreaction, but cut the guy a little slack.

It is very hard to be a Black man in the mostly white business world. Entering an elevator and watching people automatically check the position of and move to protect their pocketbooks, the hesitation of cab drivers as they check the quality of your clothing and briefcase before choosing to pick you up, being careful to not appear "looming" or threatening to your co-workers is a part of every business day and truthfully, can take its toll on your spirits. Functioning as a representative of the race to all comers is also taxing.

I'm sure he could have bitten his tongue after blurting it;out or you might consider the idea that he was attempting to joke with your husband and it came off poorly.

Let it go.

Jo Ann

.

[MarySue33 0]

I think you are overreacting. Quite honestly, the fact that you took such offense to this was amazing to me.

First of all, I doubt that if he honestly believed you and your husband were racists he would have ever even extended the invitation. Nobody would want to put their child in an awkward situation like that.

Secondly, while you were not there to hear the comment firsthand, maybe there is enough underlying racism at work that he felt the need to clarify. To be frank with you, (and this is now showing that we all do a little bit of stereotyping, whether we like to believe that we do or not) as soon as I saw that you were in the South, I could easily understand why he responded that way.

My friends and professional colleagues who are black have shared with me some of the subtle and not so subtle things that have happened to them -- even now in the 21st century -- that we who have not been in their shoes could not even imagine would still be happening. While we like to think that we are more Enlightened than our ancestors were, racism is very much alive and well in 2007. It is just often veiled or under the surface. I asked a friend of mine not that long ago how different it is for him to be a successful, black professional man than it is for me to be a successful, white professional woman. Some of the things he has shared with me would amaze you.

My advice would be not to confront. I think that when people try to 'over-explain' a situation, all it does is to make matters worse. In my opinion, the time to have made it clear that your husband was really asking about the denomination would have been at the time they first discussed the invitation.

If you go back and push the issue, I know that if I were him, my thoughts would be: "Me thinketh the lady protesteth too much." I think it would only make things more awkard for everyone involved -- including your husband and your son.

Let it go...

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I think it is also hard on Blacks in the North.

The difference is that the South is more open about it, while the North is sneaky about it, but in both places Whites tell me (their White Brother, they presume) little tidbits about "them" and very often use very choice descriptive words for "them".

I think the boss should have been more diplomatic, not just because he could not have been sure where your husband was coming from (so why automatically pick the worst?), but because as a boss, he represents the company, not just himself and it was improper for a workplace. It is called creating a hostile environment and has made many people rich after suing.

I am not suggesting your husband sue, but I think the topic should be broached again and this time the question should be more specific. Do not leave room for misunderstanding.

Very few white people could live a week in a Black person's body without getting into a fight or cracking up emotionally.

[MarySue33 0]

I think it is also hard on Blacks in the North.

The difference is that the South is more open about it, while the North is sneaky about it...

I think you just hit the nail on the head, TOM. This is exactly the kind of thing that some of my friends shared with me. One said that he was 'conveniently' left off group emails for meeting times by particular team members and his secretary would come rushing into his office at the time of the meeting because they were calling to inquire where he was. He would walk into the meeting late and every head would turn. Sneaky is a good way to describe it.

White people who say they are 'color blind' is another thing that several of my friends have commented on. If you have an honest, open conversation with a black friend, he or she will tell you that 'colorblindness' as it relates to racial and ethnic differences does not truly exist. They make a good point. If someone were to point me out to someone from across a somewhat crowded room, they would likely say "she's the short, heavyset woman over there in the blue dress". If they were to point my friend out, they might say, "he is the African-American man in the blue shirt". If there was a third friend with us, they might refer to her as the "Asian woman in the red dress." Did you notice the difference? I was the only one whose race was not noted as a descriptor. I now see their point. I teased him and said, "Just as long as you don't say...she's that short, FAT white woman...I'm ok with that."

[wish412 0]

Just a thought::::: If they go there, how could it still be an all white church anyway. Unless they consider themselves to not be a part of the church they would invite someone to. Sounds a tad puzzling to me!!!!

[MarySue33 0]

Where I used to work, very few of the Blacks were aware of the different ethnic groups. When one White guy was trying to describe a fellow mechanic to a Black mechanic, he said "You know, that old Polish guy". The Black man didn't know a Polish surname from an Italian name, from a Irish name, etc. Note: When I said Polish, I meant Polish-American, etc.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with the same friend I mentioned in my previous post. I was describing someone (a Caucasian woman) as being 'fair-skinned'. This did not register with my friend at all, as he had never heard white people being described by the color of their skin. I teased him and said..."So what you're telling me is that we all look alike, eh?"

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I think you just hit the nail on the head, TOM. This is exactly the kind of thing that some of my friends shared with me. One said that he was 'conveniently' left off group emails for meeting times by particular team members and his secretary would come rushing into his office at the time of the meeting because they were calling to inquire where he was. He would walk into the meeting late and every head would turn. Sneaky is a good way to describe it.

White people who say they are 'color blind' is another thing that several of my friends have commented on. If you have an honest, open conversation with a black friend, he or she will tell you that 'colorblindness' as it relates to racial and ethnic differences does not truly exist. They make a good point. If someone were to point me out to someone from across a somewhat crowded room, they would likely say "she's the short, heavyset woman over there in the blue dress". If they were to point my friend out, they might say, "he is the African-American man in the blue shirt". If there was a third friend with us, they might refer to her as the "Asian woman in the red dress." Did you notice the difference? I was the only one whose race was not noted as a descriptor. I now see their point. I teased him and said, "Just as long as you don't say...she's that short, FAT white woman...I'm ok with that."

I used to piss off my coworkers, when even though everyone in the room (or area or truck) was White, I would still describe a person "as that white guy who..." or start telling a joke with "three White guys were..." or say something like, "most White people think that..." basically mocking them. As you say, they told stories and only mentioned someone's race or ethnicity when it wasn't White, or told jokes where race was not relevant but still mentioned race.

[myfoursons 0]

Actually, if you would have read my posts more thoroughly you would see that I am not from the south. I am from Kansas. I stated that his familyhad just moved here from Alabama. Additionally, in another post, I stated that he doesn't know our situation and I do not know his and I decided to just leave it at that. His past experiences may have led to that statement, and I understand that. Even then, it was not appropriate to say that to someone. It really caught my husband off guard to think his boss feels that this would be something he would be concerned with. It has now created a little bit of discomfort between them I think.

As for how he is treated here, I am not sure. We live in the only consistantly blue county in Kansas. It is an extremely liberal town. The town is full of all races, ethnicities, sexualities, and religions. It is also full of vegetarians, vegans, and hippie types. It has a University, so it is very diverse. The area is very accepting as far as I can tell he probably receives less "looks" here than he did in Alabama. But I am not a minority, so I can't say for sure.