US Government has No Honor

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

One of the main factors needed for success in Iraq are Iraqi Translators to work with and go along with US troops into harms way.

These translators are prized targets of the people who do not want peace in Iraq and they are being killed at an alarming rate as are their families. Some have been found out and have asked the US Government for asylum. It is estimated that 100,000 Iraqis; translators and close family members are asking for asylum in the USA.

Our government says that we may be able to take in a few thousand per year. When told that these people are being killed and at that rate, they have no chance for survival, the spokesperson for the government said that they knew it was dangerous when they signed on for the job.

http://www.aqoul.com/archives/2007/02/lost_in_transla_1.php

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I am not suggesting that the US government should bring the whole 29,000,000 Iraqi population here to the USA, but just the people who risked their lives to give the unwinnable Iraqi war a little more of a chance at success.

The BuSh administration and its defenders, who claim we need to stay in Iraq or else we will be giving the Muslim/Arab world a signal that the USA does not stick by its friends and commitments is now proving to the Muslim/Arab world that the USA does not stick by its friends and commitments as it deserts the Iraqis who have done the most and risked their lives the most to help the USA succeed in this foolish mission.

After all the excuses about WMD, 911, etc had been proved false, BuSh fell back on, "We did it (the invasion of Iraq) for the Iraqi people". Well, the US government has shown their true feelings for the Iraqi people (with this issue as proof). BuSh and the US government claimed that they loved the Iraqi people so much that they are willing to send thousands of US servicemen to their death, but are now saying that we care so little about the Iraqi people that we will abandon the ones who did the most for us (and their families) to die. Mixed message? Or is it that the first part about sending and sacrificing US troops for the Iraqi people is just plain BS? We sent them there because BuSh is a bully who thought he could settle some old grievances and show-up his father by taking out Saddam Hussein who was serving an important purpose, the purpose he has served for the USA for over 20 years; keeping his country, Iran and the Middle-East stable. We are now on the verge of WWlll thanks to the lack of understanding of the Sunni-Shiite divide by the Neo-Cons.

Events in Serbia and Bosnia were the trip point for WW1. After the area was stabilized for decades under brutal rule, the rulers of Yugoslavia let go of their brutal grip with the demise of the Soviet Union and the 3 main ethnic groups of Yugoslavia went back to fighting WW1 all over again and there was blood in the streets as ethnic cleansing became the order of the day.

If BuSh and the Neo-Cons had known the history of Shiite-Sunni relations and if they had the intelligence to draw a parallel to the events in Yugoslavia or if they could read books, they would have foreseen the events now transpiring in Iraq and the Middle-East.

No, it is not that I am idealistic, it is that the US Government has neither honor nor brains, at least not with the present leadership.

[bitteroldhag 0]

TOM- Once again I agree. We went into this war with lies and we are continuing it with more lies. I am seriously disturbed by the fascism I see in the current government. I personally think we should get out. So we lose. Big deal. We have unconscionably destroyed many lives and we must get out and let them straighten it all out for themselves. We cannot impose our idea of superiority on other countries. The very idea makes me gag. The Neo-cons think that America is the Puritan "city on the hill" for other countries (i.e., the perfect state) and that is just plain wrong. Other countries must decide whether they want to be democracies or not. Some are simply not ready for democracy and I don't think we should force them. We would have a bigger moral talking point if we were a real democracy, but we aren't. The U.S. is a plutocracy and the problem at the moment in the plutocrats are not very bright and a totally insensitive to other cultures and their needs. Well, I have spoken and that's all.

[BJean 16]

Bubble: I hear what you're saying. But remember after we came home from the Viet Nam war, many Vietnamese people were relocated to the United States. At first it seemed like it might have a negative impact, but it didn't. They have assimilated into society pretty darned well. And thank goodness that they now have better lives. It was the very least we could do after the damage we did in Viet Nam.

Nobody is going to want to fix this Iraq mess. And relocating Iraqis to the U.S. may not be the answer, but surely you do not think it is right for us to go over there and kill and maim and destroy their cities, without helping to ensure that they have, at the very least a safe place to live.

[BJean 16]

Bitter: Thanks for your post. I agree but I do think that as a nation we need to not only get the hell out, but we need to take some responsibility for what we've done there.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

TOM- Once again I agree. We went into this war with lies and we are continuing it with more lies. I am seriously disturbed by the fascism I see in the current government. I personally think we should get out. So we lose. Big deal. We have unconscionably destroyed many lives and we must get out and let them straighten it all out for themselves. We cannot impose our idea of superiority on other countries. The very idea makes me gag. The Neo-cons think that America is the Puritan "city on the hill" for other countries (i.e., the perfect state) and that is just plain wrong. Other countries must decide whether they want to be democracies or not. Some are simply not ready for democracy and I don't think we should force them. We would have a bigger moral talking point if we were a real democracy, but we aren't. The U.S. is a plutocracy and the problem at the moment in the plutocrats are not very bright and a totally insensitive to other cultures and their needs. Well, I have spoken and that's all.

How can we assume that other countries are ready for democracy while we (the USA) are in the process of destroying our democracy?

[TommyO 5]

Bubble, the whole world is not looking for the USA to save them, on the contrary most of the world is doing fine and would prefer to be left alone. The only people you may want to consider saving are the ones placed in grave danger by the current governmet of the USA.

I must say I find you response to TOM to be cold and calouse. When you infer that you are okay with the masacre of your allies you tell me you would not be a good ally. Let em die right, you don't much like em anyway!!!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

There are two sides to every story:

I guess a case could be made that these interpretors were traitors to the Iraqi people and as Ann Coulter says, they should be tried and executed as traitors.:faint:

[TommyO 5]

It's hard for me to respond to your post, When you dispute a post you are saying (at least to me) that you disagree with that post. So if I say "we need to save the whales" if you respond that we cannot possibly save all marine life the inferrence is that you do not agree with my premise. Your argument implies that you are agianst saving the whales.

Also your statement, "By choosing everyone you are not choosing anyone" has no application in this context. The provocation raised was that 100,000 translators would die and that all should be saved. That statement implies that you believe that some of the translators should not be saved because saving them all would be wrong.

Finally I did not paraphrase your words, I interpreted them based on the point you seemed to be disputing. So it would seem that the unwise thing to do is to argue with someone who is against the slaughter of 100,000 people. When you do that you can appear callous.

[Carlene 12]

There are two sides to every story:

I guess a case could be made that these interpretors were traitors to the Iraqi people and as Ann Coulter says, they should be tried and executed as traitors.:faint:

If only stupidity were against the law. Then we could indite Ann Coulter.

[Elisabethsew 50]

TOM, I am beginning to think you hate America. We seem to do nothing right in your eyes as far as I can tell from your posts. Are there other countries that you believe we should be emulating?

[Lap_dancer 8]

I know the translators are paid well by Iraq standards. It's not the idea situation over there but then again they are in a new democracy and here we are trying to compare our 200 plus years of democracy to their foot start.

My precious soldier boy is my daughter's boyfriend. He just left this morning (no lie) for EOD training in Alabama. I still don't know all the acronyms for the Army but EOD is an explosive that is improvised and planted somewhere. He will be trained to detonate the bombs that are commonly called "roadside bombs" in Iraq. From his mouth to my ears, The Iraqi people are glad we came over there, glad Sadam Hussein is gone, but ready for us to leave. By the same token they know they still need support from Allied forces.

What I didn't know was that many Iraqis are employed and learning trade skills within the coalition. Healthcare is better, there are many things that seem like minor details to some but would typically be a positive thing when you lived under opression, the kind SH delivered.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

TOM, I am beginning to think you hate America. We seem to do nothing right in your eyes as far as I can tell from your posts. Are there other countries that you believe we should be emulating?

I don't hate the USA. I hate the politicians who get us into wars and act like the USA has a right to bomb or attack any country that does not do what is best for the USA or maybe more precisely what is best for big business in the USA.

It is not that I want the USA to emulate any other country, only that we should follow our own constitution. The USA is in danger of becoming another Nazi Germany and very influential people in our government think that would be fine. PNAC is a group that thinks the USA should start wars in order to assert itself and to achieve what is best for the USA's power structure. George W. BuSh stocked his cabinet and chose many of his advisors from PNAC. I do not know if BuSh took the PNAC people into his inner circle because he agreed with them, or they gradually led him around to their way of thinking.

PNAC said long before 911, that the USA needed another Pearl Harbor for PNAC to be able to achieve its goals.

"We seem to do nothing right in your eyes". Who is this "We"?

Am I not as much a part of the USA as you are? Subconsciously you have just excluded me from "your" country. That is what annoys me. Without realizing it, you have ostracized me. I will have you know, that I vote in every election and I have paid taxes all my life. I am just as good an American as anyone here and maybe because I love my country, I risk the fallout of speaking out.

In the 1930's, it was people like me who were rounded up for being unpatriotic in Germany. With NSA spying on phone conversations and Internet usage, I may be labeled a traitor. Have you joined the club with Ron Cusano and Ann Coulter? Should I be shot or just hung like Saddam?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I know the translators are paid well by Iraq standards. It's not the idea situation over there but then again they are in a new democracy and here we are trying to compare our 200 plus years of democracy to their foot start.

My precious soldier boy is my daughter's boyfriend. He just left this morning (no lie) for EOD training in Alabama. I still don't know all the acronyms for the Army but EOD is an explosive that is improvised and planted somewhere. He will be trained to detonate the bombs that are commonly called "roadside bombs" in Iraq. From his mouth to my ears, The Iraqi people are glad we came over there, glad Sadam Hussein is gone, but ready for us to leave. By the same token they know they still need support from Allied forces.

What I didn't know was that many Iraqis are employed and learning trade skills within the coalition. Healthcare is better, there are many things that seem like minor details to some but would typically be a positive thing when you lived under opression, the kind SH delivered.

No matter how well they are paid, dead people can not spend money. Going to war with Iraq was stupid, but if we had to go into Iraq, why didn't the USA train people to be translators?

Not all the Iraqi people are glad we went to Iraq. Many were fine with Saddam Hussein. More were not, but I recently saw a news show and they interviewed a Shiite who a few months after the war started was praising the USA for invading Iraq, but now saws he wished they had never come to Iraq and he would gladly have Saddam back in power.

Health care may be better if the US army is operating a hospital in that area, but according to all the reports I have read and heard, 2,000,000 Iraqis have fled Iraq and the majority of them are upper middle-class. Mostly doctors and engineers, and many are not coming back.

I wish the best for your future son-in-law. I hope he is able to come back home soon and in one piece.

[Lap_dancer 8]

No matter how well they are paid, dead people can not spend money. Going to war with Iraq was stupid, but if we had to go into Iraq, why didn't the USA train people to be translators?

Not all the Iraqi people are glad we went to Iraq. Many were fine with Saddam Hussein. More were not, but I recently saw a news show and they interviewed a Shiite who a few months after the war started was praising the USA for invading Iraq, but now saws he wished they had never come to Iraq and he would gladly have Saddam back in power.

Health care may be better if the US army is operating a hospital in that area, but according to all the reports I have read and heard, 2,000,000 Iraqis have fled Iraq and the majority of them are upper middle-class. Mostly doctors and engineers, and many are not coming back.

I wish the best for your future son-in-law. I hope he is able to come back home soon and in one piece.

No matter how you slice it, what they lived in prior to the war was no where better than present day paid-for-services- risking- death Iraq.

Atleast they would know WHY they were killed if in fact that is the case. The old regime offered no explainations. My nephew stayed in Abu Ghraib (prison) which was converted to living quarters for soldiers. The stories dont seem believable because no one wants to think a person was hung by a butcher's meat hook and tortured. The obsurdity of a "fake war" is something I cannot fathom but there are people who believe in UFO's and others still who believe readily in Big Foot (not the truck) so to each his own. It is illogical to think one would make up a story to create a war, it is furthermore foolish to believe other countries would believe a false story without checking it out for themselves.

Thank you for the kind words about my boy. I do love him so and he has grown on my heart tremendously. I should have known my daughter would pick someone so capable of loving her so deeply. He's so brave too. If you are so inclined send high thoughts his way for safe keeping.