Homosexual Liberal Atheists ~ What's UP with that?

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Actually, QT... I think you are very cool. You don't force others to live by your beliefs. I fully respect your choice to have your beliefs. I merely don't share them.

My main point is not that I think Christians are bad, I don't. I DO think it is bad when they feel the need to point out that gays are human.

My sissy is gay, I've seen what she has been subjected to because others feel she should follow their beliefs. It has been an eye opener. I don't like that.

If you don't push your beliefs on others, kewl beans!

[Alexandra 55]

Live your life by any standards you choose, it is your right. I will live my life by the standards I choose, those are the standards found in the Bible. I will not apologize to you or anyone else for what those are. I realize that they are not accepted by all, but it is my right and the right of anyone else who chooses to believe. I will not force my beliefs on anyone, I will not force Christ on anyone, he does not even do that himself, according to the Bible.

This is such a refreshing opinion to hear and is, indeed, living by the Golden Rule. I agree, QT, you are very cool!!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Absolutely! Most Christians do. Sin is sin. One Christian on here pointed out that they even hate their own sin, as we all should. People are people, regardless of who they are, what they believe and how they behave. We are all corupt and sinful. Christians do not save themselves, they are not perfect and 99.9% will gladly admit that. They had to to become a Christian. We were all created with a free will (I already know that some will be offended by my believe that we are created, get over it. Or don't read, like so many have pointed out before on here) we chose to believe or not. We chose our actions, and are all responsible for those choices.

A christian is a sinner like everyone else, they are just forgiven, believe it or not. Everyone chooses their path based on what they believe as truth. It is that simple.

As far as being "created" goes. I believe that I was created by my parents (with their free will and) a biology that was originally started by God, but that is not under his control (or else there would be no free will). Yes, God can control things, but I don't believe he choses to (or else no free will).

I believe that God created and placed a soul into me when I was born. I don't believe that God would create and place a soul into an embryo and/or fetus until it is going to be born and I do not believe that God knows the future or else why was he disappointed with Satan, Adam and Eve, the people of Noah's time, etc?

You say Christians do not save themselves and you say that people have free will. The only way I can rationalize that is to think that you mean Jesus had to lay the path for Christians to be save by his sacrifice, but now Christians can elect to be saved by becoming real Christians (by accepting Jesus), but even the Holy Qur'an says that.

How come, the Christian Right Political Movement doesn't make the same fuss about adultery and lying as it makes about being Gay? Two of the 4 front runners in the latest poll of Evangelical Christians are people who cheated on their wifes while married (adultery with other women and lying to their wives).

And yes, Christians can sin and be forgiven, but at what point when the rate of sinning does not slow, when the nature of the sins get more and more repugnant, does Jesus say, "I gave my human life to save you, you pray to me, but you are not even trying"?

If Adolph Hitler prayed everyday to Jesus, would he be in Heaven now. I know one can not get to Heaven on works alone, but can not one disqualify himself from Heaven with continuous bad works?

[Lap_dancer 8]

Absolutely! Most Christians do. Sin is sin. One Christian on here pointed out that they even hate their own sin, as we all should. People are people, regardless of who they are, what they believe and how they behave. We are all corupt and sinful. Christians do not save themselves, they are not perfect and 99.9% will gladly admit that. They had to to become a Christian. We were all created with a free will (I already know that some will be offended by my believe that we are created, get over it. Or don't read, like so many have pointed out before on here) we chose to believe or not. We chose our actions, and are all responsible for those choices.

A christian is a sinner like everyone else, they are just forgiven, believe it or not. Everyone chooses their path based on what they believe as truth. It is that simple.

Good one.

Unfortunately it's the extreme cases like Swaggert with a hooker and Ted with a boy toy, that get the press. Don Henley had that song "Dirty Laundry" and Americans are fascinated with it. All of these people who make bad news front page news are accountable for their actions. And time will also reveal the hearts of these individuals deviant or not. But they do not represent all of the christian faith.

.................

Terri Schiavo. Man that was one sad case. I never thought the courts should have gotten involved, it was a family matter. I've asked so many questions about motive for that case. Why didn't he pull the plug from the get go when it was, according to his expert's testimony, apparent she would no longer function independently? The answer I came to was he had hope she would recoup some functions with therapy.

When her family came forward and stated they wanted her, to take care of her, Terri would be none the wiser, Michael Schiavo already had another relationship and child with another woman. Why didn't he just move on? Who could blame him? But to fight like that for what was in essence her body? Motive. What would drive someone to do that?

$$$$he had one hefty insurance policy for one.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Good one.

Unfortunately it's the extreme cases like Swaggert with a hooker and Ted with a boy toy, that get the press. Don Henley had that song "Dirty Laundry" and Americans are fascinated with it. All of these people who make bad news front page news are accountable for their actions. And time will also reveal the hearts of these individuals deviant or not. But they do not represent all of the christian faith.

.................

Terri Schiavo. Man that was one sad case. I never thought the courts should have gotten involved, it was a family matter. I've asked so many questions about motive for that case. Why didn't he pull the plug from the get go when it was, according to his expert's testimony, apparent she would no longer function independently? The answer I came to was he had hope she would recoup some functions with therapy.

When her family came forward and stated they wanted her, to take care of her, Terri would be none the wiser, Michael Schiavo already had another relationship and child with another woman. Why didn't he just move on? Who could blame him? But to fight like that for what was in essence her body? Motive. What would drive someone to do that?

$$$$he had one hefty insurance policy for one.

LOVE:girl_hug::help:

[green 6]

It seems to me that certain Christian sects focus more strongly on sin and sinners and punishment than others. They ignore the more positive messages of compassion and joy which are also present in the Bible. This leads to self-righteousness and a bullying, intolerant attitude towards others. I also suspect that this constant emphasis on sin might also lead to a certain amount of self-loathing in many adherents.

If this is true, and I suspect that it is, then it is kind of ironic for so many of us spend time in counselling trying to learn to like ourselves. Certainly people who are happy with themselves are more tolerant, more generous in their treatment of others.

It is notable that some of the least tolerant statements have been publically made by fundamentalist Christians. (I know that we would encounter even more intolerant attitudes from fundamentalist Muslims. Life in the United States is infinitely easier than life in the Middle East. This is because there is the long and healthy tradition of the separation of church and state.)

It seems odd to me that anyone can get worked up over the issue of civil marriage rights for same sex couples. If your version of God does exist, well then, these are folks who won't get into heaven. Why should that be any skin off your snout? It is their business, isn't it? At the very worst they will be down below where all us atheists are. I guess I will be seeing all my friends.:welldoneclap:

As for this business of homosexuality being a lifestyle choice, that is crap! I have always had gay friends. They all knew that they were attracted to the 'wrong' sex long before they hit puberty. And I myself tried homosex once out of curiosity; it was the most boring sexual experience that I have ever had and taught me that I am irredeemably straight. The truth is that you are what you are. Loving people who want to form a union must be allowed that right.

[green 6]

I don't know if the prices of homes in the USA effects the prices in Canada, but the prices down here are going to dropping quite a bit in the next year or so.

The gimmick mortgages are starting to bite the borrowers in the butt and foreclosures are going to double this year and be even higher next year. Selling homes will reach epidemic proportions.

Yup, our economy is intimately tied up with yours. We will also likely see a depressed housing market.

This issue of the economy is one of the many reasons that I am anxious that the United States remains a strong, free, healthy, and democratic country. The world needs the U.S. and so does Canada.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

When her family came forward and stated they wanted her, to take care of her, Terri would be none the wiser, Michael Schiavo already had another relationship and child with another woman. Why didn't he just move on? Who could blame him? But to fight like that for what was in essence her body? Motive. What would drive someone to do that?

$$$$he had one hefty insurance policy for one.

There is quite a bit more to that story.

There was a lawsuit (I don't recall what it was for) that Terry, her parents, and her hubby all profited from. If he would have divorced her immediately he would have been able to keep Terry's and his money. He didn't. He used his share of the lawsuit money for extensive testing and therapy, even unconventional therapy to try to help his wife. He wiped out every dime trying.

After that money was gone (parents kept their share) the parents offered him their share of the money if he would just walk away. He declined, he then used personal money to finance the legal battles so he could do as his wife requested before she "died" and pull the infamous plug.

Money was not a motive for ANY of the family members, it just wasn't. The parents thought she was still a living person with a working brain. The husband did not. THAT is what it boiled down to, certainly not money.

[synicalchick 0]

I'm not a Christian, however I love the Be Attitudes.. Blessed are the meek, so n so. Jesus had a lot of good lessons to teach, whether he is/was the son of God or not, we could all do well to follow his example.

:hippie:

Tracy

[myfoursons 0]

There is quite a bit more to that story.

There was a lawsuit (I don't recall what it was for) that Terry, her parents, and her hubby all profited from.

The lawsuit was for medical malpractice. Before Terri got into her final condition, she was an anorexic. She was at an inpatient treatment when she had her cardiac infarction that led to her brain damage. The family contended that if the medical facility had provided proper medical treatment, that wouldn't have happened. They must of had evidence implicating that because they won.

[myfoursons 0]

After saying that, it is my belief that the husband saying Terri would not want to live that way may be true, but just speculation. She had battled anorexia for years. She obviously had issues with self-image already. If she wasn't happy when she was young and beautiful, why would she be happy in the condition she was in?

[anonemouse 1]

The lawsuit was for medical malpractice. Before Terri got into her final condition, she was an anorexic. She was at an inpatient treatment when she had her cardiac infarction that led to her brain damage. The family contended that if the medical facility had provided proper medical treatment, that wouldn't have happened. They must of had evidence implicating that because they won.

Did they win or did the insurance company settle? If the insurance company settled, that doesn't necessarily mean that there really was malpractice, just that the insurance company thought it would be cheaper to settle than go through a legal battle.

[myfoursons 0]

Did they win or did the insurance company settle? If the insurance company settled, that doesn't necessarily mean that there really was malpractice, just that the insurance company thought it would be cheaper to settle than go through a legal battle.

That's a good question. I can't remember that part, but either way, the husband left with a lot of money. He could have taken it and ran at that point, but he didn't.

[anonemouse 1]

That's a good question. I can't remember that part, but either way, the husband left with a lot of money. He could have taken it and ran at that point, but he didn't.

Very true. That's why I don't think he was after her money. I try to tell people who say that to look at their own spouse. If your spouse had a horrible accident and wound up in the same condition as TS, would you love him or her any less? Even if you found another person to love after several years, would you love your husband or wife any less? Wouldn't you still try to have his or her wishes fulfilled?

[myfoursons 0]

If I truly felt that I knew my husband's wishes better than anyone else, I would make sure that his wished were fulfilled no matter what turn my own life took. I think spouses tend to know their spouses true thoughts a lot better than the parents. Especially if they have been married for awhile.

Parents tend to think about what they would like for their children. Not necessarily a bad thing, but just the way it is. The child may not feel comfortable telling their parens anything different than they want to hear. Spouses tend to be more open about their opinions to each other.

I personally feel that I would know what my husband would want in a situation like this better than his dad would.

I can't say that I would do anything differently than Terri's husband did (Sorry, can't think of his name right now..is it scott?) I think he has been wrongfully judged and demonized.