Homosexual Liberal Atheists ~ What's UP with that?

[marjon9 6]

So far, has anyone said that they are a homosexual liberal atheist??? The thread starter seemed to think that lots of people fitting that description were posting here, yet I've yet to see one.

Oh, where oh where are the homosexual liberal atheists?

In my experience, your typical conservative Christian homophobe places two types of individuals into the category "Homosexual." These two types are:

a. Homosexuals, and

b. Anyone who does not despise homosexuals.

That is what I think paladin was really driving at. From his point of view there are just too many people on this forum who so wrongfully refuse to despise homosexuals, and that therefore they are, in his mind, homosexuals.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Mark...

Well, as you know the Christ person hated 'em too. Right?

[gadgetlady 4]

Wow. What a time to be without internet access. I missed a LOT.

Ditto!

That's still true today. A lot of people who don't really know much about evolution think that scientists just sit around and say, "Well, this sounds good, so we won't bother looking for other possibilities." That's not what happens. Over the years, we've gone through many different possible explanations of how we came to be. We don't just say "eeny meeny miny moe" and randomly pick what we think sounds the best. Over many years, lots of observation, lots of research, and lots of experiments, we refine our theories and throw out the ones that don't work. That's why we no longer believe in Lemark's idea of aquired characteristics, for one example. (Lemark believed that certain characteristics were aquired during an organism's lifetime and are then passed down through its offspring. The classic example is a giraffe's neck. He thought that the neck stretched during a giraffe's lifetime, and that the lengthened neck was then inherited by the offspring, eventually causing all giraffes to have long necks.)

Another thing I want to say is that a layman's "theory" is not the same as a scientific "theory". In everday language, people use "theory" to mean that they have an idea, but they don't necessarily have evidence supporting it. In science, "theory" is a term that indicates the idea is supported by a lot of evidence. Otherwise, the term "hypothesis" is used. The scientists' "hypothesis" is the equivalent of the layman's "theory".

Wait, someone mentioned Creation Science and didn't mention ME???!!!???? I'm HURT :paranoid

(As an aside, as a conservative Christian I'm not particularly pleased with this thread's inception -- I think it's disrespectful, presumptous, and crude)

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Just as the thread doesn't speak for all Christians, neither do you. A great many people honestly do believe as the OP states.

[gadgetlady 4]

Just as the thread doesn't speak for all Christians, neither do you. A great many people honestly do believe as the OP states.

Thanks for pointing that out, BubbleButt. I thought everyone believed exactly as I do:faint:

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

That sure explains why this thread is disrespectful. (oye veh)

[gadgetlady 4]

That sure explains why this thread is disrespectful. (oye veh)

:confused:

Did you want me to explain why I think the original post is disrespectful? (Oy Vey)

[Lap_dancer 8]

Even when they are not intelligent, they have a right to their feelings and conclusions, though I might respect those feelings and conclusions less. I didn't say respect the person less.

And they have a right to be unintelligent! ((smiling))

[marjon9 6]

:confused:

Did you want me to explain why I think the original post is disrespectful? (Oy Vey)

I would like to hear your thoughts.

I don't mean this in an inflammatory sense directed toward you at all, but I want to add it is simply impossible for me to imagine how anyone could find that paladin's post is not disrespectful.

In the world we live in today, it is totally unacceptable to discuss racist views in almost every setting. But it is not the least bit unacceptable for the highest officials of government, like the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for example, to state publicly that gay people are immoral beings who choose to live a life filled with abominable acts. Can you imagine what it is like for a gay child to grow up surrounded by such unimaginable hatred and condemnation from the society they live in? The pain we are willing to inflict on our fellow human beings is just breathtakingly unconscionable.

I've studied this issue extensively, and every gay person I've ever spoken to or read about or heard about, every one of them speaks of the time they "realized" they were gay. And this is usually quite young, long before puberty. Not a single one, and I mean not a single one, ever experienced this moment as a "choice."

I know, I know, homosexuality was condemned by THE WORD OF GOD!! Whatever. Believe what you want. But even if you do believe that, how can you be willing to cause such pain to your fellow humans? Can't you just believe it a keep your mouth shut? Christians claim to be following a religion based on love, forgiveness, compassion. Yet you freely destroy lives and cause unimaginable pain and self-loathing in some of the people around you (including your friends, you brothers, your sisters, whether you know it or not) by insisting that the thing that goes to the center of their being is an "abomination." Can you imagine living in a world that gives you that message from the time you are born? Shame on you all for your ignorance and cruelty.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

:confused:

Did you want me to explain why I think the original post is disrespectful? (Oy Vey)

LOL! No need, I think it is pretty obvious.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

But.. remember, this is Rants and Raves and each person has the right to post as they wish. No one is required to respond. Many have even been invited to ignore such persons or posts who post items which do not necessarily reflect their own views. Why is this post different?

You are 100% correct, but on many other forums that I have been a member of, the opening post would have been classified as "baiting" and removed.

I, however am glad that it was left to be seen and ridiculed by members of every political, religious, and sexual orientation. Palidin stands alone in writing his words with no visible means of (membership) support. I imagine that there are others who may feel the same, but they are either too ashamed to agree in public or just reluctant to show their true colors.

[gadgetlady 4]

I would like to hear your thoughts.

I don't mean this in an inflammatory sense directed toward you at all, but I want to add it is simply impossible for me to imagine how anyone could find that paladin's post is not disrespectful.

I'm verrrrryyyy confused. The very first thing I said on this thread was that I found the original post "disrespectful, presumptous, and crude". I don't understand why two people have now challenged me about that, especially since they're two people who seem, from their posts, that they would agree with me

In the world we live in today, it is totally unacceptable to discuss racist views in almost every setting.

And yet you go on below to discuss such unacceptable things about Christians.

I've studied this issue extensively, and every gay person I've ever spoken to or read about or heard about, every one of them speaks of the time they "realized" they were gay. And this is usually quite young, long before puberty. Not a single one, and I mean not a single one, ever experienced this moment as a "choice."

I've studied it too, and I mentioned in another thread that I have a very, very good friend who used to live a homosexual lifestyle and no longer does. She has very interesting things to say about it, one of them being that the feelings that cause someone to choose homosexual behavior can be encouraged or enhanced by behavior, by surroundings, and by the people with whom one interacts; similarly, they can be discouraged by the opposite factors (different behaviors, different surroundings, and different people). I think it'd be pretty difficult if one were in the midst of a homosexual lifestyle to claim that it's anything other than something they can't control. I believe sexuality can be an addictive behavior.

I know, I know, homosexuality was condemned by THE WORD OF GOD!! Whatever. Believe what you want. But even if you do believe that, how can you be willing to cause such pain to your fellow humans? Can't you just believe it a keep your mouth shut? Christians claim to be following a religion based on love, forgiveness, compassion. Yet you freely destroy lives and cause unimaginable pain and self-loathing in some of the people around you (including your friends, you brothers, your sisters, whether you know it or not) by insisting that the thing that goes to the center of their being is an "abomination." Can you imagine living in a world that gives you that message from the time you are born? Shame on you all for your ignorance and cruelty.

I have never destroyed anyone's life. I don't run around telling people I think their lifestyle is sinful (if they choose to ask me about it I will sit with them, listen, and tell them what I honestly think and see). I don't think I'm ignorant or cruel; as I said, I have studied this issue and know quite a bit about it. I'm sure I'm going to be flamed here -- homosexuality isn't a choice, no one would choose it, people can't control what they feel, why would anyone choose a life like that, etc. Bottom line, I HAVE studied it and I have reached a conclusion based on the facts that I see in the world around me.

Let the flames . . . uh, games . . . begin.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Why would a gay person care what your religion tells you to believe? You can't even prove your religion (or that of anyone else) is true. Why would you even offer an opinion on the topic?

[marjon9 6]

I'm verrrrryyyy confused. The very first thing I said on this thread was that I found the original post "disrespectful, presumptous, and crude". I don't understand why two people have now challenged me about that, especially since they're two people who seem, from their posts, that they would agree with me

And yet you go on below to discuss such unacceptable things about Christians.

I've studied it too, and I mentioned in another thread that I have a very, very good friend who used to live a homosexual lifestyle and no longer does. She has very interesting things to say about it, one of them being that the feelings that cause someone to choose homosexual behavior can be encouraged or enhanced by behavior, by surroundings, and by the people with whom one interacts; similarly, they can be discouraged by the opposite factors (different behaviors, different surroundings, and different people). I think it'd be pretty difficult if one were in the midst of a homosexual lifestyle to claim that it's anything other than something they can't control. I believe sexuality can be an addictive behavior.

I have never destroyed anyone's life. I don't run around telling people I think their lifestyle is sinful (if they choose to ask me about it I will sit with them, listen, and tell them what I honestly think and see). I don't think I'm ignorant or cruel; as I said, I have studied this issue and know quite a bit about it. I'm sure I'm going to be flamed here -- homosexuality isn't a choice, no one would choose it, people can't control what they feel, why would anyone choose a life like that, etc. Bottom line, I HAVE studied it and I have reached a conclusion based on the facts that I see in the world around me.

Let the flames . . . uh, games . . . begin.

You end a lot of your posts with the invitation to let the flame wars begin. I don't understand that. I am not flaming you at all. And I also never challenged the fact that you found paladin's post disrespectful. I told you that. I fully believe you that you found paladin's post disrespectful. I truly wanted to hear your opinion about that. I told you in my post that my comments after that were not directed toward you, and they were not.

If you never destroyed anyone's life, then good for you. Like I said, my comments were not directed toward you. But conservative Christian homophobes do destroy lives regularly with their hatred of gay people. If you are not one of those, great.

And, concerning your lady friend who says that she believes homosexual behavior is a choice, yes, it is true, people like that are pulled out of the woodwork regulary. In fact, a number of gay people can even find themselves publicly declaring that they are "cured."

But if you know as much as you say you do about this topic, then you will have to admit. The overwhelming number of gay people in this world do NOT believe that their sexual preference is a choice. There may be the occassional person like your friend who states otherwise. But you can even find the occassional person who has such self-loathing that they even declare themselves cured of being black. Look at Michael Jackson.

This extremely rare aberation does not change the absolutely incontestable reality that gay people are born that way, just like straight people. And if you believe otherwise, then you simply do not know as much about the subject as you say you do.

[anonemouse 1]

I've studied it too, and I mentioned in another thread that I have a very, very good friend who used to live a homosexual lifestyle and no longer does. She has very interesting things to say about it, one of them being that the feelings that cause someone to choose homosexual behavior can be encouraged or enhanced by behavior, by surroundings, and by the people with whom one interacts; similarly, they can be discouraged by the opposite factors (different behaviors, different surroundings, and different people). I think it'd be pretty difficult if one were in the midst of a homosexual lifestyle to claim that it's anything other than something they can't control. I believe sexuality can be an addictive behavior.

Your friend may have lived a homosexual lifestyle, but that doesn't make her homosexual. To put it really crudely, people can sleep with just about anyone, have orgasms with just about anyone, but that doesn't make them emotionally attached to that person.

Quite frankly, I think your friend's idea is bull. No matter how many homosexuals I am around, I will never be a lesbian. Many, many gay people were raised in straight environments. That doesn't make them any more straight. Certain environments may lead to people denying what they are, but it doesn't change their sexuality. I firmly believe that people that suddenly "change" their sexuality were either never homosexual or are in denial. You can't change who you are sexually attracted to. You CAN decide to stop sleeping with your same sex, but that doesn't mean you stop being attracted to them.