Out On The Table

[EarthyGoalie 253]

Butter mentioned this, but I would like to emphasize: hunger does not go away for everyone with the sleeve. Mine not only didn't go away, but came back stronger than before. I am very hungry about every two hours or so. I do get filled up very quickly because of the sleeve of course, but the hunger is there before eating, SO THERE. So don't believe that just because you get the sleeve, you will never feel very hungry. It depends on the person.

[No game 14,437]

I get hungry... But being further out I can eat more and it stays with me longer.. I DO still have head hunger! My mouth wants food from the moment I wake up until I go to bed somedays..

So I still fight that..

But hunger.. I know the sleeve takes that "away" for some. But my question is to the ones that get pissed when they feel some hunger (not you earth) sometimes. They say "I was told I would never feel hungry again" "I've been bamboozled"

Isn't hungry natural? Your body feels hunger for a reason it needs to be fueled.. To think that you would never get this natural sensation is a bit odd, right?

Or am I talking out my azz again?

[5.0junkie 770]

Question... On reading the band forums it seems to be a recurring statement and "fact" that 95% or so of band failures are the patients fault.

Do you concur?

And if so, do you think the doctors should perhaps be more hands on and see the patient more to help guide and educate them?

Laura this is a great question. I hope someone other than me can really dive into this but I'll give my two cents. I strongly believe that there are too many docs out there that do not educate their band patients enough. I for one was not educated. I was self taught and found much help on LBT. My surgeon is a great surgeon but terrible educator. I don't fault him for that cause I would rather him specialize in keeping his skills honed on surgeries and not necessarily making his patients feel all warm and fuzzy. That's my opinion though.... As far as a percentage goes, does anyone really know? I think numbers and polls always get construed my mathematical equations and the ability to round up or round down. I have never seen any hard data to confirm any numbers. It is my opinion that many people that got (past tense) the band were jumping into something they were not educated about and were not taught how to work the band so they ultimately had self inflicted failures that were not the bands fault. I believe in present tense though that many more people are being educated thoroughly about the band from both their bariatric office and social groups such as this one. It appears that there are fewer and fewer complications with band patients especially the self inflicted complications. However, there are plenty of documented cases where the persons body just simply rejected having a foreign object in their body but this is often misconstrued with being a band failure. There are documented cases of pure and simple band failures as well. The band is a man made product and any time a product is manufactured there is always room for fault or failure. The only band failures I have heard of though are leaks and port tube leaks. There is a the whole other topic though of it just being a bad install from the surgeon. That is heard of but not very common at all. Now I could go back and make up some percentages on these cases if you like but they would just be pulled out of thin air. I'm simply stating what I have read, heard and researched. Like I said, I hope a more seasoned bet will chime in and clear up some of the myths on the subject of band failures. I would never go as far as saying any percentage to band failure is the patients fault. How could that ever be truly pinpointed when so many people want to protect their own egos or point fingers for blame instead of just accepting that they failed and the band didn't.

[EarthyGoalie 253]

I get hungry... But being further out I can eat more and it stays with me longer.. I DO still have head hunger! My mouth wants food from the moment I wake up until I go to bed somedays..

So I still fight that..

But hunger.. I know the sleeve takes that "away" for some. But my question is to the ones that get pissed when they feel some hunger (not you earth) sometimes. They say "I was told I would never feel hungry again" "I've been bamboozled"

Isn't hungry natural? Your body feels hunger for a reason it needs to be fueled.. To think that you would never get this natural sensation is a bit odd, right?

Or am I talking out my azz again?

Haha, good point. I'm not one of these people who are pissed to be hungry, I just expected less hunger lol. And really and truly, my only concern is that I grow hungrier with time, eat more, and gain weight again! I'm traumatized!

[kristlynngirl 184]

I'll chime in also. I'm almost six months post op RNY.

Very few foods make me sick. The only one that does every time is broccoli. It always comes back up. I can do broccoli Soup because it's more or less pulverized but raw or cooked broccoli in any other form doesn't jive with me.

Every doctor seems to have different rules. That doesn't mean any doctor is right or wrong. Follow the plan your doctor laid out for you. I'm allowed to eat any food I can tolerate at this point. The only real "rule" I was given was a minimum 60g Protein and 64oz Water a day. I'm also allowed to have a drink or two if I want. I can also take NSAIDs as long as I stay taking my Nexium.

No two people lose weight the same. Don't compare yourself to someone else. My surgeon said that typically you lose 10% of your remaining excess weight per month. A person with a higher starting weight will lose more per week or month than someone with a lower starting weight. Look at the percentage not total pounds lost. You'll save yourself a huge headache.

[kvlasy 195]

True or False - The sleeve procedure can actually create a metabolic flip meaning a slow and tired metabolism can turn over and be a super hyper one therefore creating huge numbers in pounds lost? I had a doc tell me this but haven't researched enough to know if true or not so I'm curious.

I'm curious about this too. My surgeons staff did tell me this calling it a metabolic reset. They were talking about lowering of insulin requirements for diabetic patients.

[5.0junkie 770]

I'm curious about this too. My surgeons staff did tell me this calling it a metabolic reset. They were talking about lowering of insulin requirements for diabetic patients.

I was told the same thing about insulin. They went as far as telling me that the sleeve can cure types of diabetes. This I would like to know true or false on

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Butter mentioned this, but I would like to emphasize: hunger does not go away for everyone with the sleeve. Mine not only didn't go away, but came back stronger than before. I am very hungry about every two hours or so. I do get filled up very quickly because of the sleeve of course, but the hunger is there before eating, SO THERE. So don't believe that just because you get the sleeve, you will never feel very hungry. It depends on the person.

Check out this website.

http://www.gastricbypassfamily.com/pouchrules.html

Specifically the "Fluid loading" and "ideal meal process" sections. The Fluid loading section did wonders for preventing my hunger from coming back too soon. The article is written for gastric bypass but it works for the sleeve as well.

Hers a cut and paste on the ideal meal process. It seems a little regimented but it did help me not only increase my Water intake, but not get hungry between meals.

IDEAL MEAL PROCESS (rules of the pouch):

1. The patient must time meals five hours apart or the patient will get too hungry in between.

2. The patient needs to eat finely cut meat and raw or slightly cooked veggies with each meal.

3. The patient must eat the entire meal in 5-15 minutes. A 30-45 minute meal will cause failure.

4. No liquids for 1 ½ hours to 2 hours after each meal.

5. After 1 ½ to 2 hours, begin sipping Water and over the next three hours slowly increase water intake.

6. 3 hours after last meal, begin drinking LOTS of water/fluids.

7. 15 minutes before the next meal, drink as much as possible as fast as possible. This is called “water loading.” IF YOU HAVEN’T BEEN DRINKING OVER THE LAST FEW HOURS, THIS ‘WATER LOADING’ WILL NOT WORK.

8. You can water load at any time 2-3 hours before your next meal if you get hungry, which will cause a strong feeling of fullness.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

I was told the same thing about insulin. They went as far as telling me that the sleeve can cure types of diabetes. This I would like to know true or false on

There are many cases of diabetes being able to quit taking medicine very soon after VSG. From what I've read doctors aren't completely sure the mechanism by which this works but it seems to be a combination in hormonal changes due to the removal of the fundus, along with a drastic change in diet. Again, it's part mystery still to the medical community, but they are studying it. But as you asked earlier, I don't think these changes also translate to a slow metabolism suddenly becoming normal.

[GoingforGoal 1,734]

On the topic of statistics/failure rates.... nobody really knows. Statistics identify the complication and the percentage of patient's who experienced them. NOT who was noncompliant and created their own complications. This is not to infer every band failure/complication is patient induced, of course not. But without real numbers, it's near impossible to determine the true safety of the band when our own medical community won't give us accurate data/presumed causes for these failed bands.

As I've always said, one's success with any surgery is highly individualized. A small minority will fall subject to complications despite compliance. It's truly unfortunate because I know how much faith goes into these procedures and for the body or apparatus to fail us just must be devastating. But than you have the other side of the house...you know... the one's going to Taco Bell the day of surgery (YES, I'm talking about YOU!!!).

Just like with any surgery, there are ground rules. And we hear nonstop posts about people bending or downright ignoring those rules. It's just sad, because it's safe to predict this person is going to end up slipping or? But than we turn around and say, oh the band failed them. Hardly! It's a tool and needs to be respected. There's a mutual responsibility and far too often people want to rely solely on their surgery as if nothing has to be done on their part.

I agree with 5.0. I think there are some excellent centers that have an entire educational arm to their program. These patients seem to get it. And than there's those docs, who are strictly surgeons. We have patient's who are banded coming out asking the most general questions..and you can only shake your head in disbelief. It's simply negligent and unethical to put a patient through surgery, especially one that requires a change in lifestyle, and not educate them on all aspects of that change. So when this person fails or has a complication..do statistics really capture the real risk?

I would never assume that if someone had a complication that it was their doing. That's just not fair nor appropriate. But I'd love for some people to be accountable to their actions and admit how they created their own issues if indeed they did, because that's being fair and appropriate to the LB community.

[LindaS 316]

I had the sleeve over two years ago, and even before surgery I didn't get a lot of hunger pains. But what surgery doesn't fix for me is the head hunger. I get cravings for Snacks -- especially salty Snacks like popcorn, chips and nuts. I still get these after the sleeve even though I am not hungry. Sometimes I go to bed early just to avoid eating late at night. I think this would be true regardless of the surgery type.

I haven't had any complications since being sleeved. I have not vomited at all. I can feel very uncomfortable if I eat too much too fast, but I've adjusted how I eat to accommodate this. I tend to stop eating after a few bites and give my body a chance to send me signals about fullness before continuing.

Before my sleeve, I loved my carbs especially breads and potatoes. Since being sleeved, these are the foods I am least likely to eat because I don't like the way they fill me up. I can eat more of these than I could during my first year after surgery, but they tend to be crunchier versions, and I don't eat as much (especially potatoes). That said, I can still eat them. I just don't like the way they make me feel bloated, so I don't eat them.

I love that I am satisfied with less. It sometimes takes me longer to eat if it is really protein-rich food.

Alcohol hits me harder and faster on way less.

I do drink when eating. I take NSAIDS fairly frequently. I should drink more Water on a regular basis. Lately, I have been neglecting to take my Vitamins, and I should at least be taking Iron because I tended to have iron-poor blood before surgery. When my blood work has been done, my results have all been very good although my B Vitamin levels were higher than normal, so I stopped taking Biotin. When I am taking my Vitamins normally, I take one Multivitamin and 1 Iron Vitamin A day. When I was taking Biotin, I also took one of those a day. I do not take Calcium supplements since I tend to have a lot of Calcium in my diet. I love cheese.

My stomach was very noisy right after surgery. For a while, it quieted down. In the last month or so, my stomach has gotten noisy again. I'm not sure why, but it may be because I've cut back down on my calories again. Growl, roll, growl. It can get pretty loud. This is something that didn't happen before my WLS.

When I eat in public, someone who doesn't know that I had WLS won't comment about my eating habits. Those who know, especially if they haven't been with me when eating before, will comment about how little I eat. I would agree with someone earlier and say that what I eat is on the low side of normal portions.

[Shazam 517]

5.0Junkie, this is a good thread. And you're right a lot of people have formed their opinion on one surgery or another.

My thoughts are, listen to your doctor and pick the best for you. While one surgery might be good for one person, a different surgery would be better for someone else. Neither is wrong, bad, or better than another. All of them assist you to loose unwanted weight, which basically is all of our goals. Of course, there are pros and cons to each type, that's where the doctor helps you out. Hopefully, you have a doc with. Whom you are able to put your trust in.

For myself, I choose the band. Loosing weight in its own self is safe with 1-2 lbs a week. Which, that's what you basically get with the band. For me personally, I felt it was a safe choice. Sometimes I wish I would have gone with the sleeve because I'd be finished by now. But I'm getting there. I'm like halfway there. I've averaged about 1-2 lbs, I'm off all medications, I feel fantastic, and I'm happy. I don't have any regrets with my choice. I'm able to do so many things I thought I couldn't do anymore. And for that I'm very grateful.

I wish I was finished, but that day will be here soon. And I can't wait.

[LindaS 316]

Sometimes I wish I would have gone with the sleeve because I'd be finished by now.

Or maybe not. I remember when I got my sleeve, I thought I'd reach my goal weight within 6 months. I was wrong. It has been over two years, and I still haven't reached my goal. I've learned to enjoy where I am, which is so much better than where I had been.

[Shazam 517]

Or maybe not. I remember when I got my sleeve, I thought I'd reach my goal weight within 6 months. I was wrong. It has been over two years, and I still haven't reached my goal. I've learned to enjoy where I am, which is so much better than where I had been.

I said sometimes. I'm good. Just kinda wish I was done. But I'm good. I'm getting there. . Thanks.

[PdxMan 4,292]

I am not going to cite any statistic or reports, as requested, as we have to remember a lot of studies are funded by entities who are looking to push something. Remember the studies stating tobacco was not addictive? Low and behold, it was discovered Phillip Morris funded them ... so ... be careful with studies you find.

So, what I can do is relate my personal experience from being sleeved almost two and half years ago. I am not going to talk about my friend's sister's hairstylist who had a client who was banded and ...

Anyhew, I was always ravenously hungry eating several meals a day snacking in between. I am one of those who has had the food obsession lifted. My surgeon said this was a possibility but my body would learn a new sense of being hungry. It has. I now feel what I can only describe as being nutritionally deficient. My body feels hungry, not my stomach, nor my head. Sure, I still look at a cookie and love everything about eating it. I still enjoy eating food, but I no longer plan my next meal while eating my current meal, as I used to do.

I haven't thrown up once, but did get the slimes once. It was about 6 weeks post when I was on pain medication for another procedure and I ate part of a peach too quickly, too large of bites and didn't chew well enough. I just slipped right back to old habits, but as I said, I was medicated and not thinking.

I had terrible reflux pre-sleeve. I had a hiatal hernia repaired during the sleeve surgery. Since then, I have taken two Tums only once. I had worked very late one night, came home ... ate something and went straight to bed. Got the burning in the throat and took two Tums to settle things. Two Tums in over two years ... I used to take two tums every two hours ...

The metabolic switch is an interesting thing. Is it because of the sleeve ... hmmm ... I do believe it has happened for me, but I would tend to think it is more related to the fact that I now exercise a heck of a lot more and do more quality exercise. Pre-sleeve, I was never able to sustain my heart rate in the higher zones for a long period of time. But is that because I eat smaller meals more often, which, they say is something useful for a strong metabolism? Interesting thought, there. I don't know why, but I do know that my metabolism is through the roof compared to pre-sleeve life.

Compliance to the guidelines for me early out was not a big deal as I underwent this surgery knowing this was my last chance to live a long, healthy life. My Dr was going to put my on all kinds of meds and I just knew in my heart of hearts that I just could not blow this chance. Was this a drastic step, you bet and I totally understand why someone wouldn't get sleeved because of this. But as Butter said, why would I need this portion of the stomach that was excised? I feared that if I was banded, I would find some way to sabotage myself, as I had on all of my other weight loss attempts, and either get the band removed or not get filled to the point where I was in my green zone. I have issues with food. I needed a permanent solution to protect me from myself. I am my own worst enemy when it comes to food. I did ask my Dr (PCP, not surgeon) about the risks of needing the portion which would be removed and she laughed saying I had a better chance of being in a serious car accident than needing the stomach. Even if I got cancer, why would I think that portion of the stomach wouldn't be affected anyway? Like Butter said, I knew obesity was killing me. I'm not so risk intolerant that I am ready to hole up in the house never going out.

There are no foods I cannot eat now. I can enjoy everything I did before, just in smaller portions. I take take all medications and do take Vitamins ... just like a normal person! The sleeve has filled every expectation and then some. I could go on and on, but I think I have already ...

Good luck to all researching WLS and I hope you make the right decision that is right for you.