What About Those "Family Values", Newt?

[L8BloomR 1]

Bill Maher did not say he wished Cheney had died, and did not say its too bad Cheney didn't die.

He compared the effects of Cheney dying with Cheney not dying (in his opinion).

I saw an interview with Bill Maher on TV Wednesday night, and he did say that he can't help but wish that Cheney had died..... and felt that saying it wasn't wrong. I think he has the right to say what he thinks, but I also think that if it is OK for him to be politically incorrect, then no one should be upset when someone from the other side is.

[L8BloomR 1]

Then we would have no one speaking out to protect the children.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.... Maybe I did not express myself clearly, because I surely DO think that someone should be speaking out to protect children!

[Carlene 12]

I saw an interview with Bill Maher on TV Wednesday night, and he did say that he can't help but wish that Cheney had died..... and felt that saying it wasn't wrong. I think he has the right to say what he thinks, but I also think that if it is OK for him to be politically incorrect, then no one should be upset when someone from the other side is.

This is from HBO's Real Time TV show, where I understand the Maher remark originated:

Ridley: It’s one thing to say you hate Dick Cheney, which applies to his politics. It’s another thing to say, "I’m sorry he didn’t die in an explosion." And I think, you know…

Maher: But you should be able to say it. And by the way...

Frank: Excuse me, Bill, but can I ask you a question? Do you decide what the topics are for this show?

Maher: Yeah, I decide the topics, they don’t go there.

Frank: But you exercise control over the show the way that she does over her blog.

Maher: But I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow. (applause)

Scarborough: If someone on this panel said that they wished that Dick Cheney had been blown up, and you didn’t say…

Frank: I think he did.

Scarborough: Okay. Did you say…

Maher: No, no. I quoted that.

Frank: You don’t believe that?

Maher: I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.

Maher didn't specifically say he wished Cheney had died, but I agree that he did not dispel the idea.

Ann Coulter is politically incorrect to the extreme, on a regular basis. So is Rush Limbaugh (he made fun of Michael J Fox, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease). So you're right....they exist on both sides and we could play tit for tat all day and probably come up with a pretty even score by sundown. Neither of them, however is an elected official, nor is Charles Rust-Tierney.

Predators, like Gerry Studds and Mark Foley, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and prohibited from EVER serving in public office again.

Bill Clinton was (maybe still is) a womanizer from way back. But he didn't run on a "family values" platform, either. That was my point in reference to Newt Gingrich. If anyone in the political arena comes across as "holier than thou", it's Newt Gingrich. Now he's playing the repentant sinner card. Because he has no choice. He was caught and he knew it. I will give him this....he was smarter than Clinton; he didn't lie about his infidelity.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I saw an interview with Bill Maher on TV Wednesday night, and he did say that he can't help but wish that Cheney had died..... and felt that saying it wasn't wrong. I think he has the right to say what he thinks, but I also think that if it is OK for him to be politically incorrect, then no one should be upset when someone from the other side is.

I did not see that interview (nor previously hear about it), but, again in the spirit of free and open discussion, I will take your word that he said exactly that, not implied or hinted, and I will say if you are correct, then he was wrong to say that.

The reason I might sound like I am equivocating is because I have been burned so many times by people reading into things that I said or other people said. If Bill Maher or any other TV/radio/press/movies personality says "(I) can't help but wish that Cheney had died" or "(I) can't help but wish that BuSh had died", then they are abusing their fame and the role model status that goes with it.

If, on the other had, a media personality asks (playing the Devil's advocate) "So if BuSh and Cheney were to die, don't you think that many more US soldiers would live compared to BuSh and Cheney not dying?", I feel that is a valid question. Hardball politics, but valid.

I saw the "Real Time" show where Bill Maher was blamed (originally) for saying he wanted Cheney dead. I think Bill was blamed more for the reaction of the audience than Bill's actual words.

And yes, L8BloomR, of course people on the "Left" should be held accountable for crude statements to the same degree as those from the Right. People from either side should not be held accountability on all issues evenly. If a member on one side of the political spectrum breaks one of the cherished rules of his political group, he should be held accountable, but if a member of the other side breaks that same rule, he should not be held accountable. But that also works both ways, so it is fair.

And one more comment about Bill Maher and the people who dislike him (for his honesty), I read the comments that Bill made on his “Real Time” show last week on a site that doesn't like (nor appreciate) Bill Maher's pot stirring and while the site was saying that Bill wanted Cheney dead, the words they printed didn't say that. They also printed the words that many people assume got Bill Maher's “Politically Incorrect” talk show kicked off of WABC TV. The remarks were made so soon after 911, that I didn't see the show live. I lived (at that time) where I could see the World Trade Center from one of my home's windows and when the towers came down, so did the TV (and many radio) antennas and there went my TV reception until they relocated the antennae. One of Bill's guests on “Politically Incorrect” said that the 911 pilots were cowards and Bill compared the bravery of a man who flies a plane into a building with a US Navy sailer who pushes a button that launches a cruise missile from 200 miles away from its target. Bill was not talking about morality, nor praising any deeds, just physical courage. Anyone who doesn't think that the Japanese Kamikaze pilots of WWll or the 911 pilots, didn't have courage, does not know the meaning of the word courage. Were they misguided? The Japanese pilots did what their emperor asked and were no more misguided than our soldiers, pilots and seamen involved in the tragic mistake of the war on Iraq. The 911 pilots were doing it for God or at least what their religious leaders had twisted their religion into. But that happened in Salem when women were tortured, burned, and hung in the name of Christianity. So courage yes, wisdom no, but Bill Maher paid the price for making people think, because too many people were too scared to think (and many still are).

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I'm not sure what you are saying here.... Maybe I did not express myself clearly, because I surely DO think that someone should be speaking out to protect children!

I don't believe that no one should speak about moral standards unless they are pure as snow or will never fall

Then we would have no one speaking out to protect the children.

I do not know of anyone (at least not since Jesus) who would pass your "unless they are pure as snow or will never fall" test. Any bills helping abused children that Bill Clinton or Mark Foley helped become law are valid, as are any statements that either of them made about the need for those bills becoming law. The fact that each had a poor personal track record regarding morality is not relevant to the good that a law that protects children might do.

[green 6]

The big difference between the left and the Christian right is one of Hypocrisy!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

The big difference between the left and the Christian right is one of Hypocrisy!

The "Christian Left" needs to become more vocal.

[Carlene 12]

The big difference between the left and the Christian right is one of Hypocrisy!

The term "Christian right" is sometimes - not always, but sometimes - an oxymoron.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

The term "Christian right" is sometimes - not always, but sometimes - an oxymoron.

The "(Un)Christian (Never)Right Political Movement" is a term I coined a few years ago.

If it ever gets popular, you can say you know the "Tired Old Man" who made it up.

I think it is too accurate to become in vogue.:frusty:

[green 6]

The "Christian Left" needs to become more vocal.

Yep! Right now everyone believes that the Left is made up of no one but us evil atheists.:phanvan

[Carlene 12]

Yep! Right now everyone believes that the Left is made up of no one but us evil atheists.:phanvan

What a prediciment. I'm a Christian Liberal. Would I rather see a Fundamentalist Conservative or an Atheist Liberal in office?

I'll take the Atheist, every time. Why?

Because I don't believe my religion and my politics are one and the same.

Because I don't want Fundamentalist religion taught in public schools, or shaped into law. (This is only fair, since I know of no Fundamentalists who want Catholic prayers, values, etc taught in their kids' schools.)

Because I don't think a belief in God is necessary for fair, sound political representation.

[L8BloomR 1]

I do not know of anyone (at least not since Jesus) who would pass your "unless they are pure as snow or will never fall" test. Any bills helping abused children that Bill Clinton or Mark Foley helped become law are valid, as are any statements that either of them made about the need for those bills becoming law. The fact that each had a poor personal track record regarding morality is not relevant to the good that a law that protects children might do.

I guess I didn't express myself clearly here... What I was trying to say was that a person should not have to be pure and perfect to speak out for high standards. We ALL fail and we have ALL done things that we shouldn't. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to reach higher standards morally or ethically, or to encourage others to strive for the same thing, especially if we are in a position to teach or lead. I was addressing the Newt criticism that since he had committed adultery, he shouldn't be talking about moral or ethical issues.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I guess I didn't express myself clearly here... What I was trying to say was that a person should not have to be pure and perfect to speak out for high standards. We ALL fail and we have ALL done things that we shouldn't. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to reach higher standards morally or ethically, or to encourage others to strive for the same thing, especially if we are in a position to teach or lead. I was addressing the Newt criticism that since he had committed adultery, he shouldn't be talking about moral or ethical issues.

I agree.

However, it is for the Christian Right Political Movement to judge whether Newt has attoned and whether it is right to vote for him.

[wavydaby 1]

Don't we have atheist consevatives?

[L8BloomR 1]

Don't we have atheist consevatives?

I know a few agnostic conservatives....Does that come close enough??