Kids can be so mean!

[aronoel619 0]

Asia is a large continent. When I have used the word Oriental, I was referring to people from China, Japan, Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia, both Korea's, Laos, Thailand. Asian would include all those countries, plus India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, many of the 'stans and countries that were part of the Soviet Union, etc.

Question #1. Without getting too deep into analysis of teeth, genes, etc. Is there a term that will include the people from the first group of countries, while excluding the people from the second?

Question #2. Is Oriental an insult, or is it just not the preferred "nom de jour"?

Calling a Black person a Negro is not normally considered insulting, just dated. Calling a Black person an Afro-American or African-American is both not always accurate, nor is it consistent with Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American, Pakistani-American, etc. All of those groups would have to be called European-American and Asian-American to be consistent with either Afro-American or African-American. Continents and countries are not the same. Also as I gave an example of earlier, not all Blacks are Americans, so not all Blacks are Afro-American or African-American.

So to follow up on question #2. Is there an inaccuracy or insult implied in "Oriental"? Some people have said that people of as group should be referred to as they want to be referred to, but I have met people who I had in the past referred to as Oriental who were annoyed and people who said that they would rather be referred to as Oriental than Asian, just as I have known people who want to be call Black and detest Afro-American and vice-versa.

I find it almost amusing how some groups are singled out by one characteristic, while other groups are singled out by a different characteristic. Example, a coworker once told me that he saw a Jew, a Puerto Rican, an Italian, and a Black man walking down the street. He could have been talking about 2, 3 or 4 people. He identified one person by his religion, one by his ethnicity, one by his nationality and one by his race. Couldn't one person have been a Puerto Rican who was Black and was a member of a synagogue? Or couldn't the Italian have been Jewish?

We sure can screw things up.

Wow!!! I knew I shouldn't have outed myself.

Answer to question 1: no. It's regional. In the U.S. if you're talking about Asians, people will probably assume you're referring to people of East Asian, and South East Asian descent. In Europe they may add in a few more groups. As a British Indian friend once said to me, "I'm Asian, but you're Asian squared." She was trying to illustrate how she's considered Asian in England but not in the U.S., whereas anywhere I go outside of Asia I'll always be Asian.

Answer to question 2: It's only insulting if it's intended to be insulting. Other than that I just chalk it up to being outdated. In college I tried to reclaim "Oriental" by using it to refer to Asian stereotypes and cliches. That experiment didn't last very long. My fellow Asian classmates weren't buying into it, and my non-Asian classmates and TA's were always trying to correct me.

Asians who are offended by the term Oriental, are offended because of it's connotations. When I hear Oriental used to describe a people, the immediate images that pop up are dragon ladies, concubines, Suzie Wong and Charlie Chan, even if the speaker doesn't have those connotations attached to the term Oriental. I had a Korean roommate who identified herself as an Oriental, as she explained you're only Asian outside of Asia, but you can still be Oriental in or outside of Asia. She felt this was one way of keeping her identity as Korean from Korea. Outside of Asia and the Philippines I'm considered Asian and/or Filipino, but in the Philippines I'm "the American" or to be precise "the fat American who's charged double for a ride on a jeepney." I now hire a driver when I visit.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

BubbleButt: It was taken as intended, because I'm smart like that...not because I'm Asian or Filipino, but because I'm a woman. :whoo:

Wow!!! I knew I shouldn't have outed myself.

Answer to question 1: no. It's regional. In the U.S. if you're talking about Asians, people will probably assume you're referring to people of East Asian, and South East Asian descent. In Europe they may add in a few more groups. As a British Indian friend once said to me, "I'm Asian, but you're Asian squared." She was trying to illustrate how she's considered Asian in England but not in the U.S., whereas anywhere I go outside of Asia I'll always be Asian.

Answer to question 2: It's only insulting if it's intended to be insulting. Other than that I just chalk it up to being outdated. In college I tried to reclaim "Oriental" by using it to refer to Asian stereotypes and cliches. That experiment didn't last very long. My fellow Asian classmates weren't buying into it, and my non-Asian classmates and TA's were always trying to correct me.

Asians who are offended by the term Oriental, are offended because of it's connotations. When I hear Oriental used to describe a people, the immediate images that pop up are dragon ladies, concubines, Suzie Wong and Charlie Chan, even if the speaker doesn't have those connotations attached to the term Oriental. I had a Korean roommate who identified herself as an Oriental, as she explained you're only Asian outside of Asia, but you can still be Oriental in or outside of Asia. She felt this was one way of keeping her identity as Korean from Korea. Outside of Asia and the Philippines I'm considered Asian and/or Filipino, but in the Philippines I'm "the American" or to be precise "the fat American who's charged double for a ride on a jeepney." I now hire a driver when I visit.

It is a good thing that I read the second reply first.

[Carlene 12]

I find it almost amusing how some groups are singled out by one characteristic, while other groups are singled out by a different characteristic. Example, a coworker once told me that he saw a Jew, a Puerto Rican, an Italian, and a Black man walking down the street. He could have been talking about 2, 3 or 4 people. He identified one person by his religion, one by his ethnicity, one by his nationality and one by his race. Couldn't one person have been a Puerto Rican who was Black and was a member of a synagogue? Or couldn't the Italian have been Jewish?

We sure can screw things up.

People do this all the time - even on some of the forms you have to fill out. Makes me want to march right up to the little window and say, "You know here where it says "race", and then it gives you all these different choices, well that's just wrong, because there are only five races. Now, if what you mean is ethnicity, that's something else....except that "Jewish" is not an ethnic group - it's a religion. Perhaps you were just trying to be politically correct when you made up this form, but this is a doctor's office....you should not disseminate inaccurate, unscientific information."

[aronoel619 0]

Carlene: You forgot the Ass-roids (race of asses). They come in every color, shape, size, and creed. You can't recognize them until they open their mouth or cut you off on the freeway.

[Wheetsin 714]

"You know here where it says "race", and then it gives you all these different choices, well that's just wrong, because there are only five races. Now, if what you mean is ethnicity, that's something else

Yes! Around here I hear "I'm not racial!" after someone makes some kind of racial slur. They just don't get it.

Question, since we're talking about referring to people by various "traits". Does being called "fat" offend you? IMO - I *am* fat, so of course I'm not offended if you call me that. I call myself that. Just the other day I was telling a work friend about a shirt DH surprised me with and thought I would love, that I would not wear because it's a halter and "while my shoulders are broad enough for it - eww - who wants to see my back fat or my fat, jiggly bat wings?" She didn't get offended, but couldn't believe I would refer to myself as fat. But why not? I am.

It's like skinny people think that's something they only get to call us when we aren't around. :eek:

[Carlene 12]

Carlene: You forgot the Ass-roids (race of asses). They come in every color, shape, size, and creed. You can't recognize them until they open their mouth or cut you off on the freeway.

:eek:

LOL....

[Carlene 12]

Yes! Around here I hear "I'm not racial!" after someone makes some kind of racial slur. They just don't get it.

Question, since we're talking about referring to people by various "traits". Does being called "fat" offend you? IMO - I *am* fat, so of course I'm not offended if you call me that. I call myself that. Just the other day I was telling a work friend about a shirt DH surprised me with and thought I would love, that I would not wear because it's a halter and "while my shoulders are broad enough for it - eww - who wants to see my back fat or my fat, jiggly bat wings?" She didn't get offended, but couldn't believe I would refer to myself as fat. But why not? I am.

It's like skinny people think that's something they only get to call us when we aren't around. :eek:

No one calls me fat anymore, but it didn't offend me, and sometimes made me laugh. For instance, "Oh yeah...well, I may not be the smartest person in the world, but you're FAT." Okay....and how's that working out for you, Einstein?

[Lap_dancer 8]

As an Asian-American I'm only slightly offended by the word "oriental". For the most part people aren't using "oriental" as a pejorative, but I will correct people when "oriental" is used to describe Asian people. It's an archaic term like "negro" that isn't needed, besides I'd rather be reffered to as that "hot Asian chick". (I would've added smart too, but Asian just implies that. Ha ha ha...just being satirical.) :eek:

You are so cute! My niece was adopted from Korea years ago. She is drop dead gorgeous and so smart. She calls herself the hot, Asian chick and also a conglomeration of words that refer to her Korean heritage, her American parents adopting her and raising her and all parts inbetween!

[enterprise01 0]

Question, since we're talking about referring to people by various "traits". Does being called "fat" offend you? IMO - I *am* fat, so of course I'm not offended if you call me that. I call myself that. Just the other day I was telling a work friend about a shirt DH surprised me with and thought I would love, that I would not wear because it's a halter and "while my shoulders are broad enough for it - eww - who wants to see my back fat or my fat, jiggly bat wings?" She didn't get offended, but couldn't believe I would refer to myself as fat. But why not? I am.

"Fat" doesn't offend me, but "obese" kind of depresses me. I constantly make references about my own fat ass. Denying the obvious won't do me any good. I tend to refer to other fat people as heavyset or overweight when talking about them and hope that others are courteous enough to do the same for me. On the other hand, I've known skinny people who were offended by the term "skinny." I consider that a compliment, so I really don't understand what they're complaining about.

[aronoel619 0]

Question, since we're talking about referring to people by various "traits". Does being called "fat" offend you?

"Fat" doesn't offend me, but "fatso" does.

"Fat" doesn't offend me, but "obese" kind of depresses me. I constantly make references about my own fat ass. Denying the obvious won't do me any good.

Oh the other "O" word. Yeah obese is depressing. I make fun of myself too. The first week post-op I was trying to explain the lap-band to some friends and I explained that the band divides the the stomach into two stomachs, one small, and one large. Then without thinking I said, "Ya I'm basically two stomachs away from being a cow."

[TPB1960 0]

Ms Vicki You Keep Going !! When I Was Growing Up Until I Was A Young Adult, I Was Always Teased That I Was Fat. Even In The Military When I Was 194 Lbs., They Would Call Me Fat. Well Guess What, I'm 47 And 350lbs, Now I Am Fat. Those Viscous Comments Carve Deep Into The Psyche. Now I Am Preparing For Lapband Surgery. When I Look Back At Pictures Of Myself I Wonder How I Could Be So Naive. Best Of Luck

[lindata 1]

I stopped my bike, stared him down for a moment...as his laughter wained...I said, straight faced "Look at the little boy who's parents haven't taught him any better!"

That's fantastic! That's exactly what it is too - parents not teaching kids any better. Why do kids think fat is such a bad thing? My 3.5 year old doesn't even know what fat means. He once described a lady as a potato. I thought he meant because she was big and round shaped. No, it was because she was a light brown colour with a lot of freckles on her face!

Personally, when I fill out a form and it asks Race(?), I write "Human".

That ticks me off too when they ask for race - and I'm white (can I say that?). What difference can it possibly make? I'm going to write "human" in those forms from now on. Good one!