Gave midterms today

[anonemouse 1]

A little background on the labs I teach, first. I teach weekly labs. For each lab, there is a page with 5-6 questions on it that they can do and turn in for up to 1 point of extra credit per sheet, which can raise their grade by a letter if they do the sheets for all the labs. They have to be turned in at the beginning of each lab for the student to receive credit. They know this. At the beginning of each lab, I tell them that anyone who is going to turn one in should do it at that time. We are giving midterms this week, covering seven labs. Usually the average midterm grade is about a 65, which is a D.

And guess what? I just got an email from one of my students, saying that she had the extra credit sheets from all the labs taught up to this point. She says that she "forgot" to turn them in and pretty please would I accept them. "Forgot," my ass. I bet $100 that she took the exam and realized that she's not doing very well. I told her that I would not accept them. I was honest with them at the beginning of the semester. I told them that the lab was not an "easy A" and that doing all the extra credit that is offered can really help their grades. Not my fault she didn't pay attention. Bet she'll turn in the extra credit sheets for the rest of the labs, though.:huytsao

[Devana 0]

This is especially lame considering you tell them to hand them in (if they're done) at the beginning of each lab. It's not like they're not reminded regularly.

[anonemouse 1]

This is especially lame considering you tell them to hand them in (if they're done) at the beginning of each lab. It's not like they're not reminded regularly

Oh, I know. I might have thought about accepting them (probably not, but still) if she had a halfway decent excuse for not turning them in. But dude, I REMIND them in each lab. I wouldn't be bragging about it if I were her, if she really did forget.

[anonemouse 1]

.what kind of lab?

The ones I teach are biology for non-majors.

[MarySue33 0]

I agree with you on teaching them accountability and responsibility. I hire new grads for a living (teachers) and each year it seems that the percentage of folks who do not think rules and deadlines apply to them gets greater and greater.

I had one complain that I was giving him the 'runaround' last year. I wasn't giving him the runaround -- I was giving him the straight facts, but it just so happened to be answers he did not want to hear. He was told to meet certain requirements by a particular deadline if he wanted to be considered for a cohort program. He did not meet the requirements -- in fact, did not even make an effort to do so -- just gave me lots of excuses about why he was so much more special and important than all of the rest of the hard working people who did meet the deadlines.

I have no patiences for this sort of thing and think that, as professionals, they need to realize that there are consequences to their behaviors and that they are not college students anymore.

I do have one question for you, though, Lauren -- why such a low average grade on the midterm? Is it that they are not putting for the effort? Or that the material is that difficult. I would be concerned as the instructor if my class was doing that poorly on a consistent basis.

[anonemouse 1]

I do have one question for you, though, Lauren -- why such a low average grade on the midterm? Is it that they are not putting for the effort? Or that the material is that difficult. I would be concerned as the instructor if my class was doing that poorly on a consistent basis.

It's a fairly difficult midterm, but what really gets them is that the last three labs before the midterm are taxonomy labs, where they have to learn a lot of different organisms and their classifications. The actual lecture portion of those labs is fairly small, but we give them the rest of the lab time to study the organisms, and we leave the material up until the midterm so that they can study it whenever they have lab. Most of them blow off studying until the last lab and get overwhelmed with all the stuff they have to know. It's not that bad if they keep up with it, but most of them insist on leaving as soon as I tell them that they are free to study the material for the rest of lab time. I'd insist that they stay, but I figure that since they are adults now, they should be able to take responsibility for their own education. I've told them several times before the midterm to take advantage of all the study time they get. Most, unfortunately, don't listen, thus the low average score.

[MarySue33 0]

I'd insist that they stay, but I figure that since they are adults now, they should be able to take responsibility for their own education. I've told them several times before the midterm to take advantage of all the study time they get. Most, unfortunately, don't listen, thus the low average score.

I wondered if that might be the case. This speaks to what I am seeing with my new teachers. We have a program where we pay most of the cost of their master's degree (this is the program the runaround guy wanted to get into) and we run into so many problems with the teachers in this program. They 'forget' to register for classes, don't turn in assignments, show up late for class, etc. -- and then wonder why they are not going to be certified at the end of two years. They want to be spoonfed and handheld. I'm like you. I think that they need to be expected to behave like adults, because they always tell us that they want to be treated like adults. After all, we are paying them a professional salary to do a 'real' job. I do not think this is too high an expectation. When I give them the 'runaround' (i.e., tell them things they don't want to hear), they run to the teachers' union crying that they are not being treated fairly. Geez...

[anonemouse 1]

I wondered if that might be the case. This speaks to what I am seeing with my new teachers. We have a program where we pay most of the cost of their master's degree (this is the program the runaround guy wanted to get into) and we run into so many problems with the teachers in this program. They 'forget' to register for classes, don't turn in assignments, show up late for class, etc. -- and then wonder why they are not going to be certified at the end of two years. They want to be spoonfed and handheld. I'm like you. I think that they need to be expected to behave like adults, because they always tell us that they want to be treated like adults. After all, we are paying them a professional salary to do a 'real' job. I do not think this is too high an expectation. When I give them the 'runaround' (i.e., tell them things they don't want to hear), they run to the teachers' union crying that they are not being treated fairly. Geez...

Yeah, it's fairly eye-opening, what these people think they can get away with. They can earn up to 6% of their final grade in extra credit points, and I STILL get people that come up to me at the end of the semester, begging for more points. And usually, they are the ones who didn't bother to do the extra credit I offered them. It blows my mind sometimes.

We instituted a new policy this semester that says that all students that miss three or more labs automatically fail, whether or not the absence is excused. There really isn't any way around it, because three absences is about a quarter of the entire semester. One of the other lab instructors told me that he already had a student fail. She missed the first three weeks of lab due to "family issues" (in most cases, read: I just didn't feel like going to class and didn't realize it would get me into trouble) and THEN emailed him, asking if there was a way to make it up. He had to tell her that she should just go ahead and drop the entire biology course (lecture and lab), because she had already failed it.

Last semester, I had a student email me about 4 weeks into class, saying that he hadn't been in lab that week due to being sick, and that he had missed the other labs because of "depression/family problems" (his exact words), but that he would be in lab next week. I never saw the guy. Apparently, he went to one of the other labs and took his midterm, but that was the ONLY grade I had for him. I had to email him before the final exam to tell him not to bother coming to take it because he had already failed.

One of my friends was proctoring a lecture exam for one of the professors, and said that he told her that "The guy in the back has taken the class 4 times. He cheats, but I don't do anything because he fails anyway."

[anonemouse 1]

Her class helped change my way of thinking about problem solving, study of the subject, and (*gulp*) FOLLOWING directions.....

Yeah, following instructions is a biggie. Our midterms and finals are laid out in stations and we give the students a set amount of time at each station and then tell them to move. There are arrows printed on the question cards at each station, showing them the direction to move in when time is up. We invariably get people that go the wrong way and mess the whole system up. I finally told my class this semester, "If you do nothing else, please, PLEASE follow the arrows. Otherwise, everyone gets their numbering messed up."

[bitteroldhag 0]

Laurend - I can tell you are still learning to teach. I don't give any extra credit. If they don't get the paper in on time, too bad, they don't get the points (though I'm usually easier about this on the first paper). After that, I never, ever take late work despite all the excuses I hear. Students have multiple grandparents die in one semester; they get multiple diseases; they just don't show up. The truth is that they are smoking dope, drinking beer, sleeping or working at low-paying jobs and don't realize that an education can lead to higher paying jobs. I give them 3 free cuts a semester. If they take more than that, I drop their grades according to how many points each day is equal to. We have a strep throat epidemic here every spring semester, but it takes only about a week for a young person to get over strep throat, so after 3 absences, they start losing points. I used to take late papers with the understanding that the student could only get half the points for the paper. I quit doing that when I got 50 papers the last week of school. I have a life too, so they either get them in on time, or too bad. At our university, we train teachers and they are expected to produce. If they don't, they don't get to be teachers. Recently one of our M.A. students who is teaching high school called because they had assigned her 9th grade and 2 senior courses. The seniors did much better on the standardized tests, so they promoted her to teaching all senior classes and some AP classes. She wanted to know what computer programs might help the students with writing and what books to teach in AP courses. That's the sort of teacher we produce. We do not screw around with them. The students you teach are probably English majors. We don't understand science because science teachers never tell us the stories behind the science. If you would tell us the stories, we might do better. I was working on my PhD before I realized that plane geometry is based on the simple syllogism. I wonder why my plane geometry teacher never told us that. I'd have done a lot better if he had. But you are right not to take late papers. Personally, I don't think you should give extra credit. This is college, not high school, and the students either perform or work at Burger King, no?

[Wheetsin 714]

Must... not... get... distracted...

(working on a midterm of my own, of sorts... a write up of a "non-instructional intervention")

[MarySue33 0]

bitteroldhag and laurend -- Thank you for teaching your students that irresponsibility and lack of professional behavior both have consequences. As someone who hires these young people, I must say that we need more professors and instructors like you. They may think you are being harsh, but what you are teaching them are the life lessons that will serve them well for years to come.

[anonemouse 1]

Laurend - I can tell you are still learning to teach. I don't give any extra credit.

I'd prefer not to give it to them, but the lab coordinator says we have to. It's really a waste of time, in my opinion. Half don't do it, and the other half copy off each other.

I do admit to being a little lenient on some students, though, if they've shown me that they have actually tried and put effort into the lab. I don't give them an automatic A, though. If they've really tried hard and are still failing by just a point or so, I'll bump their grade up to a 60, which is passing. I've also stayed after lab to help those students with their lecture material and try to answer any questions that they have. The others, well, I really don't have much sympathy for them. I have had a bunch of students that just blow everything off, so when they do that, I don't lift a finger to help them.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I'd prefer not to give it to them, but the lab coordinator says we have to. It's really a waste of time, in my opinion. Half don't do it, and the other half copy off each other.

I do admit to being a little lenient on some students, though, if they've shown me that they have actually tried and put effort into the lab. I don't give them an automatic A, though. If they've really tried hard and are still failing by just a point or so, I'll bump their grade up to a 60, which is passing. I've also stayed after lab to help those students with their lecture material and try to answer any questions that they have. The others, well, I really don't have much sympathy for them. I have had a bunch of students that just blow everything off, so when they do that, I don't lift a finger to help them.

As an instructor, student's intent is a valid point to decide passing or failing.

When I was a maintenance instructor, I had to evaluate whether the mechanic (student during mandatory classroom training sessions) was going to be able to repair planes safely. Intent and attitude were important, but aptitude was a more valid criteria for job retention.

[anonemouse 1]

Intent and attitude were important, but aptitude was a more valid criteria for job retention.

Very true, which is why I'm usually not willing to bump a student's grade more than one or two points. I had a Chinese student the first semester I taught. She studied constantly, always asked questions, always did the extra credit. She just didn't understand English very well, so she would do badly on the quizes and tests. At the end of the semester, she had a 59 average, but needed a 60 average to pass the lab. Usually, if a student didn't pass the lab, they wouldn't pass the lecture, unless they had gotten extraordinarily good lecture grades. I felt really bad for her, so I bumped her grade a half point, so that it would round up to a 60.