Vent regarding the Ultra Religious

[Carlene 12]

Sorry, no can do. I tell the truth about the Catholic church and I won't cover for them.

I thought you were opposed to bashing other people's beliefs? My mistake.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Since when is presenting the facts bashing beliefs? That pity pot of yours isn't working. I have made it clear in this thread and others that I don't care what others believe. When it comes to Catholicism it isn't the Catholics that I have a problem with, it is the CHURCH. I support the Catholics many times when they make up their own minds vs. depending on the church to inform them of their opinions. The church and a person's beliefs are two very different things and you know it.

If you can't dispute the facts, fine. But to create straw man arguments isn't wise.

[Carlene 12]

I hope this is good enough for you. I am not going to pay the $5 to purchase the whole article.

Nowhere do any of these "references" implicate the Pope in trying to "run" the country. Yes, individual bishops have spoken for/against political agendas regarding abortion and stem cell research, but that does NOT mean that they have been "ordered" by the Pope to do so, nor does it mean that they, in turn, have pressured parish priests across America to tell their parrishoners who to vote for. Unless you have been in a Catholic church and heard that with your own ears, then you don't know any such thing to be "true". I, on the other hand, have been in numerous Catholic churches and have NEVER heard a priest campaign for any individual or political party.

[Carlene 12]

Since when is presenting the facts bashing beliefs?

Gee....you should meet Mr. Ron Cusano. You have a lot in common.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Nowhere do any of these "references" implicate the Pope in trying to "run" the country. Yes, individual bishops have spoken for/against political agendas regarding abortion and stem cell research, but that does NOT mean that they have been "ordered" by the Pope to do so, nor does it mean that they, in turn, have pressured parish priests across America to tell their parrishoners who to vote for. Unless you have been in a Catholic church and heard that with your own ears, then you don't know any such thing to be "true". I, on the other hand, have been in numerous Catholic churches and have NEVER heard a priest campaign for any individual or political party.

You are clearly not familiar with how the Catholic church operates. These are not hidden facts, these are long term, on going methods the church has used for a long time.

Since when does the pope contact each Catholic and offer his views? HE DOESN'T! He informs those below him who inform those below them. Then it comes out in sermons. This is something just bloody obvious, it's not a secret. It's how any large organization works and the Vatican is no different and they don't claim to be different.

Yes, I am quite familiar with the church. I was born and raised Catholic.

I have provided links to explain exactly how this happens. If you want to continue stomping your feeties we are just going to go in circles here. If you want to discuss the issues instead of opinions, let me know. I have provided examples of my claims, I have done my job.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I think that all organized religions are a bit too power hungry, sometimes at the expense of the religion itself.

I do not think the Roman Catholic church at this time in history is any worse than other groups.

I think that all organized religions should allow their members the free will God bestowed upon us.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Gee....you should meet Mr. Ron Cusano. You have a lot in common.

Is this your best shot? Honestly?

Let's look at the differences here. Ron attacks individuals because they don't believe in a god the right way. I support anyone to believe in their god of choice in whatever manner works for them.

Ron claims everyone is going to hell unless they believe his way and he does nothing to back up his claims. I, OTOH, don't believe in a hell and I support my claims with examples.

I have not slammed a group of believes for being believers, I have slammed a church for their politics. It is you that cannot see the difference between how a church is run and the individuals who have their beliefs. And you can't see a difference here? Really? Have I given you too much credit?

If you want to communicate on an adult level I'd love to discuss the issues with you. However, if you are going to continue slamming and stomping your feeties, I'm going to learn about that ignore feature.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Nowhere do any of these "references" implicate the Pope in trying to "run" the country. Yes, individual bishops have spoken for/against political agendas regarding abortion and stem cell research, but that does NOT mean that they have been "ordered" by the Pope to do so, nor does it mean that they, in turn, have pressured parish priests across America to tell their parrishoners who to vote for. Unless you have been in a Catholic church and heard that with your own ears, then you don't know any such thing to be "true". I, on the other hand, have been in numerous Catholic churches and have NEVER heard a priest campaign for any individual or political party.

The article I posted was in response to your request for a reference to my post:

Some Catholics were being threatened with excommunication for voting for candidates that supported abortion in the 2004 election. While it did not come from the Vatican, some US Bishops around the country did put the word out to their dioceses.

I never said anything about the Pope trying to run the USA, and in fact said. "it did not come from the Vatican".

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

T.O.M.

I agree, it isn't just the Catholic church today. But historically it was the Catholic church as previously, they had the most power.

If churches would stick to providing a warm and friendly place for people to meet and worship their God of choice I would have all the respect in the world for them. But it seems that the bigger they are, the more politics and the more politics the less worshiping and more power plays.

[Carlene 12]

If you want to communicate on an adult level I'd love to discuss the issues with you. However, if you are going to continue slamming and stomping your feeties, I'm going to learn about that ignore feature.

I will save you the trouble. This is, after all, your thread. So I will leave it to you.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

T.O.M.

I agree, it isn't just the Catholic church today. But historically it was the Catholic church as previously, they had the most power.

If churches would stick to providing a warm and friendly place for people to meet and worship their God of choice I would have all the respect in the world for them. But it seems that the bigger they are, the more politics and the more politics the less worshiping and more power plays.

It is not only religious organizations that forget their calling.

As an aircraft mechanic, I was a member of the IAMAW union. The IAMAW is headquartered in Washington DC, where it has a large complex of offices and many clerical workers. The clerical workers were not unionized and eventually signed cards, and voted to form a union local. The IAMAW refused to bargain with the clerical workers for an initial contract. A photograph of the clerical workers was published in the national newspapers showing the clerical workers picketing IAMAW headquarters with picket signs reading "IAMAW Unfair to Union Employees".

[thinkingthin247 0]

I've been a Catholic my entire life (I'm 56) and while I have heard sermons on our obligation to be active citizens and vote, I have never heard one in which the priest told the people how they should vote. The priests have urged people to pray and read to make informed decisions, but the churches I have belonged to have never said who or what to vote for or against. It may happen in some parishes, but I think it's an error to believe it is widespread.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I've been a Catholic my entire life (I'm 56) and while I have heard sermons on our obligation to be active citizens and vote, I have never heard one in which the priest told the people how they should vote. The priests have urged people to pray and read to make informed decisions, but the churches I have belonged to have never said who or what to vote for or against. It may happen in some parishes, but I think it's an error to believe it is widespread.

Churches have become too active in politics IMHO, but the Catholic church has not been the ardent backer of the present administration as many other denominations have. I hope you don't mind that I consider the Catholic church to be one of the Christian denominations. I know some people consider the main religious groups as Christian, Catholic, Jewish and Muslim, but I think of it as Christian (including Catholic), Jewish and Muslim.

Anyway, The Catholic church has been one of the few to oppose the Iraq war and also has opposed some of the hideous weapons systems the USA has produced over the years.

I am not happy with many of the group's oppinions on most of the social issues, but that is what makes free will so interesting.

[BabyGotBack 0]

I just couldn't resist responding to this thread.

Why can't we just leave people and their beliefs alone.

I personally just ignore fanatics believers or not. It is annoying from both sides.

I come here for support for the band not to try to convert people to my beliefs.

Why can't we just relate to each others as fellow human beings who got banded?

In the words of Rodney King "Can't we all just get along?"

I personally accept and don't judge anyone. I don't lump all unbelievers into a category and assume they are all the same. As I expect not to be categorized either. I am an individual.

I am a Christian who loves all people. I have people in my family that I love that are gay, atheist, into witchcraft, etc. I can love them even if I don't neccesarily believe like they do.

:faint:

Not all Christians are fanatics trying to push their beliefs down peoples throats.

[gadgetlady 4]

:popcorn: popcorn, anybody? I'm just gonna sit back and watch