Vent regarding the Ultra Religious

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Okay, I just have to do it.

Atheists do not "refuse" to believe in a God anymore than a theist (Christian) refuses to believe in purple flying elephants. We simply lack belief in this God.

Belief is not something one turns on and off like a lamp. One either believes or they do not. When people insist that we really do believe they are saying they know better than us what our own individual thoughts and feelings are and that doesn't make one of us look very smart.

I can no more spontaneously "believe" in your God than you can spontaneously claim a lack of belief. Seriously, if beliefs can be turned on like lamps then they can be turned off just as easily. What would it take for you to honestly, sincerely, believe your God does not exist? Yeah, that's what you are suggesting we do by simply believing.

It is not a "fact" that your God exists. It is faith. If you had facts you wouldn't need faith. Unless you can bring your God to my home for dinner tonight for a nice chilled Protein Shake, it is your belief he exists. If you want to insist that it is a fact that your God exists, please feel free to trot out your proof and explain why you no longer have faith but facts instead. "I FEEL him in my heart," is not proof - it is an emotion.

Christians and other assorted theists have every bloody right in the world to believe anything they wish. If you want to believe in a God or many Gods that is your right and I would defend your right to believe until my very last breath. Would you defend my right to lack belief in the same way?

We don't need to hear the Word. I know more atheists that have read the bible cover to cover than Christians. Matter of fact, I can count the number of Christians I know that have read their own good book (cover to cover) on one hand.

I know the bible well, I likely know it better than most Christians. I didn't *just* go to church on a very regular basis I read the bible and studied the material. Quite frankly, that is what led to my atheism.

Christianity is not new material, it just isn't. If you research Christianity you will see it was borrowed from myths prior to Christianity. The Hindus, for example. Egyptians. Then we have holidays, Paganism anyone?

Just because I am not a Christian and I will defend my right to lack Christian beliefs, that does not mean I am anti-Christian. That is a cop out and nothing more. We know it, so do you.

Christians are not being persecuted in the US. The only difference between today and 100 years ago is that now Christians are being forced by law to follow the same rules as the rest of us have had to do since the beginning of the Bill of Rights. That is not persecution and if you insist it is then you have to say that the rest of the country has been persecuted since the beginning of the Bill of Rights.

The founding fathers were not all Christian. They were an assorted bunch, everything from pantheist, Pagan, Christian, atheist, and deist. And while I am bringing up the beliefs of others Hitler was not a Catholic or any other type of Christian. But I admit, that is a topic for another day.

Yes, Christianity is the majority religion in the US today. However, that is changing. Christianity numbers are dropping by just shy of 1% annually. This has been tracked since at least the '80s. The two fastest growing groups are Pagans and atheists. It's true, deal with it.

Considering the fact that Christianity is going down in numbers it has been estimated that by somewhere around 2040 or so, Christianity will no longer be the majority religion in the US. Assuming this is true, are you really sure you want your religion in public schools? If you set the tone today for religion/public schools, do realize that in the near future you may just get your wish. However, your future generations may not be worshiping the Christian God but perhaps Ra, the Sun God while dancing naked around a maypole under a full moon at midnight. Is this what you want? This is what many Christians today are pushing for.

We are not out to convert the world. We don't care what your religion is, we just don't want to participate it in and we don't want to follow the same rules. We happen to disagree with a great many of the beliefs Christians want to (and have) put into law. If we promise not to try and convert you, would you grant us the same favors?

We do not worship a devil. If we lack a belief in the supernatural such as the Christian God, it is quite safe to assume we lack belief in a supernatural devil or demon as well.

We do not eat babies. Amazing, I know but we really don't. Some of us actually have our own children and we don't eat them either.

I fully realize this list is not directed to all Christians. You know who you are. Most Christians are honest, decent, kind individuals following their path in this life. They are doing the best they can. Guess what? So are we.

About 10-20 years ago we nonbelievers made up about 14% of the US population. Since we are one of the fastest growing groups today you can rest assured that number is significantly greater now. We are here to stay, we aren't going anywhere. We aren't growing in numbers by recruiting, it doesn't work that way. People are being educated in sciences more today than any other time and people are making these choices on their own.

Wouldn't it make more sense to work together as a community and not worry about what everyone else believes? We are all in this world together, it only makes sense to be peaceful, respectful, and considerate of others. Keep in mind, it is likely a bunch of atheists and Pagans taking care of you when you are in the hospital. I've been in medicine for over 20 years now and I'm here to tell you, you can't spit in a hospital and fail to hit a nonbeliever somewhere. We are professionals, we are part of your community. Instead of focusing on differences let's find ways to make life more harmonious.

Whew... okay. I'm done.

[anonemouse 1]

I Very Much Agree!

[anonemouse 1]

So? Is there some reason to start yet another thread stating the same thing?

If you have no interest in the topic, why reply?

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

So? Is there some reason to start yet another thread stating the same thing?

Sure, so you'd have more to respond to. You know, like you did.

I'm not getting in the middle of that mess. I'm just clearing up some educational errors and more errors that are bound to come up. But since you appear offended by this thread I'm sure you won't be reading this. Right? ;o)

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I Very Much Agree!

I thought you might agree with most of it. ;o)

You are very cool.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Okay, I just have to do it.

Atheists do not "refuse" to believe in a God anymore than a theist (Christian) refuses to believe in purple flying elephants. We simply lack belief in this God.

Belief is not something one turns on and off like a lamp. One either believes or they do not. When people insist that we really do believe they are saying they know better than us what our own individual thoughts and feelings are and that doesn't make one of us look very smart.

I can no more spontaneously "believe" in your God than you can spontaneously claim a lack of belief. Seriously, if beliefs can be turned on like lamps then they can be turned off just as easily. What would it take for you to honestly, sincerely, believe your God does not exist? Yeah, that's what you are suggesting we do by simply believing.

It is not a "fact" that your God exists. It is faith. If you had facts you wouldn't need faith. Unless you can bring your God to my home for dinner tonight for a nice chilled Protein shake, it is your belief he exists. If you want to insist that it is a fact that your God exists, please feel free to trot out your proof and explain why you no longer have faith but facts instead. "I FEEL him in my heart," is not proof - it is an emotion.

Christians and other assorted theists have every bloody right in the world to believe anything they wish. If you want to believe in a God or many Gods that is your right and I would defend your right to believe until my very last breath. Would you defend my right to lack belief in the same way?

We don't need to hear the Word. I know more atheists that have read the bible cover to cover than Christians. Matter of fact, I can count the number of Christians I know that have read their own good book (cover to cover) on one hand.

I know the bible well, I likely know it better than most Christians. I didn't *just* go to church on a very regular basis I read the bible and studied the material. Quite frankly, that is what led to my atheism.

Christianity is not new material, it just isn't. If you research Christianity you will see it was borrowed from myths prior to Christianity. The Hindus, for example. Egyptians. Then we have holidays, Paganism anyone?

Just because I am not a Christian and I will defend my right to lack Christian beliefs, that does not mean I am anti-Christian. That is a cop out and nothing more. We know it, so do you.

Christians are not being persecuted in the US. The only difference between today and 100 years ago is that now Christians are being forced by law to follow the same rules as the rest of us have had to do since the beginning of the Bill of Rights. That is not persecution and if you insist it is then you have to say that the rest of the country has been persecuted since the beginning of the Bill of Rights.

The founding fathers were not all Christian. They were an assorted bunch, everything from pantheist, Pagan, Christian, atheist, and deist. And while I am bringing up the beliefs of others Hitler was not a Catholic or any other type of Christian. But I admit, that is a topic for another day.

Yes, Christianity is the majority religion in the US today. However, that is changing. Christianity numbers are dropping by just shy of 1% annually. This has been tracked since at least the '80s. The two fastest growing groups are Pagans and atheists. It's true, deal with it.

Considering the fact that Christianity is going down in numbers it has been estimated that by somewhere around 2040 or so, Christianity will no longer be the majority religion in the US. Assuming this is true, are you really sure you want your religion in public schools? If you set the tone today for religion/public schools, do realize that in the near future you may just get your wish. However, your future generations may not be worshiping the Christian God but perhaps Ra, the Sun God while dancing naked around a maypole under a full moon at midnight. Is this what you want? This is what many Christians today are pushing for.

We are not out to convert the world. We don't care what your religion is, we just don't want to participate it in and we don't want to follow the same rules. We happen to disagree with a great many of the beliefs Christians want to (and have) put into law. If we promise not to try and convert you, would you grant us the same favors?

We do not worship a devil. If we lack a belief in the supernatural such as the Christian God, it is quite safe to assume we lack belief in a supernatural devil or demon as well.

We do not eat babies. Amazing, I know but we really don't. Some of us actually have our own children and we don't eat them either.

I fully realize this list is not directed to all Christians. You know who you are. Most Christians are honest, decent, kind individuals following their path in this life. They are doing the best they can. Guess what? So are we.

About 10-20 years ago we nonbelievers made up about 14% of the US population. Since we are one of the fastest growing groups today you can rest assured that number is significantly greater now. We are here to stay, we aren't going anywhere. We aren't growing in numbers by recruiting, it doesn't work that way. People are being educated in sciences more today than any other time and people are making these choices on their own.

Wouldn't it make more sense to work together as a community and not worry about what everyone else believes? We are all in this world together, it only makes sense to be peaceful, respectful, and considerate of others. Keep in mind, it is likely a bunch of atheists and Pagans taking care of you when you are in the hospital. I've been in medicine for over 20 years now and I'm here to tell you, you can't spit in a hospital and fail to hit a nonbeliever somewhere. We are professionals, we are part of your community. Instead of focusing on differences let's find ways to make life more harmonious.

Whew... okay. I'm done.

I agree with the vast majority of what you said, even though I am a Christian.

I am curious to why you say that Hitler was not a Christian (I include Catholic in the generic word Christian).

Any time you want to elucidate me, please feel free to rant.

Oh, and one more thing; even though the percentage of US Christians may be dropping, the core group of the Christian Right Political Movement is very active and getting more persuasive because of their decision to vote as a block.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Actually, I'll probably check in on whatever thread I want. I'm not necessarily offended. I'm okay with you being an athiest. I'm just confused as to why, since 2003, when we mostly avoided topics such as Religion and Politics on this board, that we seem to have an overwhelming amount of redundant threads, which are already clearly disrupting relationships on this board. Since the poster of this particular thread only has about 42 posts, perhaps they are not aware of the squabbling? Or perhaps they are perpetuating the problem? One has to wonder.

It's an interesting study, group dynamics..

Anyway, proceed. I have removed myself from the other conversations. It's all been said.. and said and said and said...

Were you not expecting responses to your thread?

Are you writing to me? In one sentence you referred to me as a 3rd party and in your last sentence it appears you are writing to me.

I didn't really think about if anyone would respond, it wasn't the purpose for writing what I did. If someone wants to respond they are free to do so but I was mostly correcting common errors out of frustration.

Ever hear anyone make sweeping generalizations about Christianity? After time it gets mighty old? And the people painting with the huge paintbrush often times come off as believing they know what they are talking about and they aren't even Christian? Same thing with atheism. It just gets old. The old sorry crap about how we really believe but we are either mad at God, we don't WANT to believe, we are rebelling... it's all old and tired. I can only read it so many times before I have to give a small few a bit of an education in reality.

If people are accepting of others, why should this jeopardize relationships? That would only happen with bigots, wouldn't it? Whether the bigot is a Christian, atheist, Pagan, or whatever. Personally, I'd rather know who the bigots are up front, makes life easier. I'm tired of not telling people I am an atheist in appropriate discussions. I can't well do it in real time and I usually avoid it on the boards. It's not socially acceptable to discuss atheism in real time. Someone else started a great thread on non-Christians and since I "came out" per se, I decided what the heck. Might as well air my vent.

42 posts... yes. Are you under the impression I have never seen discussions of religion or politics? Are you under the impression that most discussions of this nature don't turn into a war regardless of forum? I was kinda hoping this one wouldn't. Maybe it will or won't, I don't know.

Most of all I'm just sick and tired of hearing a small few Christians speak of atheism as if they know what they are talking about. Sometimes it's just time for an education. That and I think people forget (from all sides of the debate) that we are all people living in this world together. We can get along and exchange ideas and concepts or we can be at war. It's a choice.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Actually, I'll probably check in on whatever thread I want. I'm not necessarily offended. I'm okay with you being an athiest. I'm just confused as to why, since 2003, when we mostly avoided topics such as Religion and Politics on this board, that we seem to have an overwhelming amount of redundant threads, which are already clearly disrupting relationships on this board. Since the poster of this particular thread only has about 42 posts, perhaps they are not aware of the squabbling? Or perhaps they are perpetuating the problem? One has to wonder.

It's an interesting study, group dynamics..

Anyway, proceed. I have removed myself from the other conversations. It's all been said.. and said and said and said...

Were you not expecting responses to your thread?

I can't be positive, but I would assume that politics has become so intertwined with religion, that any topic can be traced to a religious or political decision and very often a religious/political decision.

Unless you want to discuss Birtney Spears or Anna Nicole Smith, the topic will have something to do with religion and/or politics.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I agree with the vast majority of what you said, even though I am a Christian.

I am curious to why you say that Hitler was not a Christian (I include Catholic in the generic word Christian).

Any time you want to elucidate me, please feel free to rant.

Oh, and one more thing; even though the percentage of US Christians may be dropping, the core group of the Christian Right Political Movement is very active and getting more persuasive because of their decision to vote as a block.

Atheists often times use Hitler as though he is the Christian/Catholic poster boy and that's just not true. Although he was raised Catholic he was far from a Catholic or any brand of Christianity.

Hitler used Catholicism to get what he wanted. If he would have told people the truth about his beliefs they would have never put him in power. In front of people he said one thing, away from people he had quite a different tune. He insulted organized religion every (private) opportunity he had.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

The above link is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about.

His secretary wrote a book and that is an eye opener too. I was able to purchase a 1st Ed. sometime back. I haven't read the whole thing yet, there is some pretty dry reading between the good stuff but it is interesting.

From all my research I really believe that Hitler was nuts, he viewed Nazi-ism (how does one write that?) as a religion where he was the God and Mein Kampf was his bible. Actually, he removed bibles from schools and replaced it with his book. How many Christians would support such a move?

Hitler was as Christian as I am. ;o)

Regarding the Christian Right, I fully agree with you. Sad, isn't it? With the pope telling Catholics how to vote in OUR elections, that isn't helping people engage in a few critical thinking skills either.

I swear, the world today is problematic because we always have someone else to do our thinking for us. Employers dictate our work time, churches dictate free time, and computers cover whatever else is missing. People don't think through issues anymore. Snopes.com exists for a reason, it's for those that can't figure out when something is actually impossible or darned unlikely.

Is it any wonder that people do as they are told and vote according to their church? To heck with the country, just be good doobies and follow the minister. What they aren't realizing is that sometimes their minister is an idiot. So between the religious right and the idiot ministers, top that with the Pope and welcome to the USA. ;o)

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Atheists often times use Hitler as though he is the Christian/Catholic poster boy and that's just not true. Although he was raised Catholic he was far from a Catholic or any brand of Christianity.

Hitler used Catholicism to get what he wanted. If he would have told people the truth about his beliefs they would have never put him in power. In front of people he said one thing, away from people he had quite a different tune. He insulted organized religion every (private) opportunity he had.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

The above link is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about.

His secretary wrote a book and that is an eye opener too. I was able to purchase a 1st Ed. sometime back. I haven't read the whole thing yet, there is some pretty dry reading between the good stuff but it is interesting.

From all my research I really believe that Hitler was nuts, he viewed Nazi-ism (how does one write that?) as a religion where he was the God and Mein Kampf was his bible. Actually, he removed bibles from schools and replaced it with his book. How many Christians would support such a move?

Hitler was as Christian as I am. ;o)

Regarding the Christian Right, I fully agree with you. Sad, isn't it? With the pope telling Catholics how to vote in OUR elections, that isn't helping people engage in a few critical thinking skills either.

I swear, the world today is problematic because we always have someone else to do our thinking for us. Employers dictate our work time, churches dictate free time, and computers cover whatever else is missing. People don't think through issues anymore. Snopes.com exists for a reason, it's for those that can't figure out when something is actually impossible or darned unlikely.

Is it any wonder that people do as they are told and vote according to their church? To heck with the country, just be good doobies and follow the minister. What they aren't realizing is that sometimes their minister is an idiot. So between the religious right and the idiot ministers, top that with the Pope and welcome to the USA. ;o)

I would like to hear an explanation from a Conservative Christian who sees no harm in tearing down the wall of separation between church and state, as to why in a game of Chess, which is a game of war, why a Bishop is a powerful piece.

And are not the pawns the Christian Soldiers?

I will read your link ASAP.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I would like to hear an explanation from a Conservative Christian who sees no harm in tearing down the wall of separation between church and state, as to why in a game of Chess, which is a game of war, why a Bishop is a powerful piece.

And are not the pawns the Christian Soldiers?

I will read your link ASAP.

Interesting. I don't play chess (it's on my list of things to learn) so I didn't realize the above. That is something worthy of noting.

[Elisabethsew 50]

I read that you came to this board because you were tired of the born again Christians controlling things. I suppose that anger and frustration was the impetus for this thread topic which is fine.

I have to agree with another poster regarding followers of a particular religion being told how to vote. I am Catholic and have NEVER heard any member of the church tell the congregation how to vote. It's important not to make generalizations that are unfounded.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I read that you came to this board because you were tired of the born again Christians controlling things. I suppose that anger and frustration was the impetus for this thread topic which is fine.

I have to agree with another poster regarding followers of a particular religion being told how to vote. I am Catholic and have NEVER heard any member of the church tell the congregation how to vote. It's important not to make generalizations that are unfounded.

Actually, it was a pretty big issue (again) a couple of years ago. People were up in arms over this.

Prez Kennedy even made it clear to the Vatican that he doesn't tell the Pope how to run the Vatican and the Pope doesn't tell him how to run the country.

Another big issue came with John Kerry.

This is not something new, this has been going on for a very long time.

[Elisabethsew 50]

I have found that people on this board, whether an atheist, an agnostic, a jew, a christian, etc., respect one anothers right to believe, or not believe, whatever they find comfort and solice in. I suppose that translates to peace.

[Valentinebaby 0]

OMG!!!!!!!(*G=Goodness) People people what in the world is going on in here?I was under the impression that this site was about bonding and support for a group/family of people with the common goal to get healthy.I am all for debates and people expressing opinions and feelings,but it seems like people are taking things a bit tooooo personal.Listen we are all adults {most times :myscared: } How/who/what ever you choose to worship is you personal choice isn't that why we as a culture of people are /have fought in wars so that people can have that right? Lets get back to being family n here and supportive of each of us being different yet still the same.