Poll: Do you let Food sit in your esophagus? Or wash it down with liquids?

[No game 14,437]

Ok I must interject here...

This is not about Sides, so who you are "aligned" with and the rejects aside this is my take.

You people are arguing about what constitutes drinking while eating?

Is it chewing and taking a sip as food is still in your mouth or waiting a minute??

News flash they are both drinking while eating.

Now is this "good" or "bad" with the band?

Hell if I know

Well we know that esophageal dilation is a real risk you can face with the band. This can happen for several reasons, right? Over filling the band can be part of it along with constant over eating.

So the theory of clearing the food so it doesn't sit there constantly day after day meal after meal makes a bit of sense. But then doesn't also defeat the purpose of the band? I mean isn't that where you would feel your restriction? If it dumps on your full sized stomach won't you still be able to eat more food?

Oh by the way I don't know squat I'm a sleever!

But I will say that just the other day another sleever said her doctor, through doing research found that we should drink a little while eating or at least not wait the half hour to and hour!

We asked why she told us why he thought this.

End of subject, no fighting.

There will be a constant revamping of beliefs on everything! And let's face it we will have evolving advice and "rules" with the band and the sleeve as they learn more.

I will not be closed minded but I will also not jump because someone told me so.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

She doesn't realize you are responding to me.

This is the BEST feature ever- ignore someone and they no longer see your posts even though you can see and respond to theirs. LOVE this feature (snicker)

Lipstick, don't take anything NaNa says personally. It's always asinine to assume someone knows less than them and than challenge them to prove their knowledge as a way to imply they are stupid.

She's still on her high horse...

And yes, everyone, follow your doc's orders ahahhahaha

I'm 42 years old. I never take anything a stranger on the interwebz says personally. I'm terribly amused.

[GoingforGoal 1,734]

I'm 42 years old. I never take anything a stranger on the interwebz says personally. I'm terribly amused.

Great, you'll fit right in. I just had to make it obvious because there are some who are 'sensitive' to everything so, ya know...

Anyway, I think it's equally comical the bypass and sleeve patients are chiming in ahahha. It's not rocket science but it sure feels like it some days lol.

Thanks for joining our comedy relief stage, we always like improv the best

[NaNa 878]

Ok I must interject here...

This is not about Sides, so who you are "aligned" with and the rejects aside this is my take.

You people are arguing about what constitutes drinking while eating?

Is it chewing and taking a sip as food is still in your mouth or waiting a minute??

News flash they are both drinking while eating.

Now is this "good" or "bad" with the band?

Hell if I know

Well we know that esophageal dilation is a real risk you can face with the band. This can happen for several reasons, right? Over filling the band can be part of it along with constant over eating.

So the theory of clearing the food so it doesn't sit there constantly day after day meal after meal makes a bit of sense. But then doesn't also defeat the purpose of the band? I mean isn't that where you would feel your restriction? If it dumps on your full sized stomach won't you still be able to eat more food?

Oh by the way I don't know squat I'm a sleever!

But I will say that just the other day another sleever said her doctor, through doing research found that we should drink a little while eating or at least not wait the half hour to and hour!

We asked why she told us why he thought this.

End of subject, no fighting.

There will be a constant revamping of beliefs on everything! And let's face it we will have evolving advice and "rules" with the band and the sleeve as they learn more.

I will not be closed minded but I will also not jump because someone told me so.

Your questions makes sense so I will respond ..

In the OLD days when I got my band over 8 years ago, we were all taught one of the "golden lap band rules" were to NEVER drink while we ate, because this would push the food through, and if this occurred we would seemingly defeat the purpose of the band and get hungrier between meals sooner, and not lose as much weight.

Some surgeons had a 30/30 rule some had a 60/60 rule of waiting up to 1 hour or 30 minutes to stop drinking any liquid and wait 1 hour to 30 minutes.

However, O'Brien and other "very successful" lap band clinics learned that not only there is NO advantage to the old 30/30 and 60/60 rules specially for LAP BAND patients it CAN cause esophageal dilation LONG TERM in many lap banders.

Because MANY who followed the 30/30 - 60/60 rules, their food NEVER went past the band, or the food would sit in the esophagus too long and in some lap band patients this eventually caused the esophagus to dilate (or create a new small stomach in the esophagus) AND IF THIS OCCURS -- IT ALWAYS REQUIRE LAP BAND REMOVAL AND THE PATIENT CAN NEVER BE A CANDIDATE FOR THE BAND.....any longer.

Esophageal dilation IS DIFFERENT than Pouch dilation, if someone develops a larger pouch they CAN always get this fixed surgically, so Pouch dilation is not as harmless as esophageal dilation, but both are lap band complications but different issues.

And to answer your last question :

So the theory of clearing the food so it doesn't sit there constantly day after day meal after meal makes a bit of sense. But then doesn't also defeat the purpose of the band? I mean isn't that where you would feel your restriction? If it dumps on your full sized stomach won't you still be able to eat more food?

Oh by the way I don't know squat I'm a sleever!

Here is the thing...MANY US Lap band surgeons DO NOT KNOW HOW THE LAP BAND WORK....some still fill their patients too tight and send them on their merry way with no instructions, etc....hence why there is a VERY HIGH complication rate.

Based on O'Brien and other skilled lap band surgeons, including Dr. Simpson....

The lap band DOES NOT WORK UNTIL ABOUT 1-2 HOURS AFTER WE EAT, meaning, it should never make us full to the point of being stuffed, we should eat slowly wait a few minutes let that food go down, take another bite, or even take a sip of liquid between bites and let that go down and after eating slowing for about 15-20 minutes of about 1/2 to 1 cup of solid food, IF WE ARE IN THE GREEN ZONE, we should be satisfied and STOP EATING...THAT'S HOW THE LAP BAND SHOULD WORK, BASED ON NEW RESEARCH FROM THE FOUNDER WHO CREATED THE GREEN ZONE CHART.

Some surgical clinics DO NOT FOLLOW THIS, and MANY US surgical practices have very high long term lap band complications rates, IN FACT, MANY surgeons are no longer doing bands because they were removing more than they were putting in...which CREATED THE NEW RAVE FOR THE SLEEVE....IN THE LAST 4 YEARS....BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY HAVING TO GET THEIR BANDS REMOVED..

Will everyone have issues down the road? We don't know, but based on the last 10 years those clinics that don't follow Dr. O'Briens green zone chart and this NEW REVISED 10 Golden rules with the band tend to have more complications.....

NOW there is a NEW TURNAROUND FOR THE LAP BAND...SURGEONS ARE NOW LEARNING AND ADOPTING...O'Briens new rules and with a "safer" band, things have started to turnaround for the band....

[Seela 1,187]

Wow.. and y'all thought I was bad... my momentary mind loss is nothing compared to this self absorbed know it all. I thin all of us.. bandsters, sleevers and rny alike should just stop thinking for ourselves because this one seems to have it all figured out! Hahaha

[No game 14,437]

Observation.....

I think that if you stopped "yelling" so much in your posts, people might be able to hear your more.

[Seela 1,187]

Observation.....

I think that if you stopped "yelling" so much in your posts, people might be able to hear your more.

Don't you feel sorry for all of us that eent to a lowly u.s. surgeon?

[NaNa 878]

Observation.....

I think that if you stopped "yelling" so much in your posts, people might be able to hear your more.

For *some* it REQUIRES yelling, because they can't seem to comprehend what I was trying to say. And comprehend O'Brien's video.

[No game 14,437]

Where there is shouting, there is no true knowledge.

Leonardo da Vinci

[NaNa 878]

Where there is shouting, there is no true knowledge.

Leonardo da Vinci

*Whatever*.....please go play along with your fellow Sleevers...I've played too long with your *game*...

And my quotes:

Those who have nothing positive to contribute should not say nothing at all.

[No game 14,437]

Thats it? That's all you had??

Oh but I must thank you for not shouting in that last one

[B-52 7,113]

I can' believe this thread is still alive....

Anyway, it seems everyone has an opinion base upon what they were taught, or read, or told by someone...

When I read the posts on this form, I am generally intersted in what YOU have experienced....what have YOU found to be true, or not, based upon what YOU have had happen to you.....

I was going to chime in a long time ago, but after the turn this thread took I opted not to....but I will say my story, based upon my experience from trial and error, is way different than what is debated here as fact...

I have my own facts from my own findings....

And I am happy with my WLS and my 100% success with no problems or complications, and not wish to be labled a heretic because of it...

[CaGottaBand 498]

I can' believe this thread is still alive....

Ditto!

[Jean McMillan 2,973]

Naomi,

I know you mean well, but I think you've missed a few important pieces of data here.

1. The chief finding of the study you mentioned was that successful bandsters in Australia do drink (but not guzzle) while eating. Those findings did not explain why that's so. The "why" part is conjecture on the part of the study's authors. Also, I question their claim that "There is no pouch or small stomach above the band. There should never be food sitting there waiting." I agree with the last part of that ("There should never be food sitting there waiting") but I disagree with the first part and have no idea where they came up with the idea that there's no pouch or small stomach above the band. Yes, the band has been used in Australia a lot longer in the USA, but that statement completely contradicts everything I've read in Allergan and J&J literature and surgeon resource sites. And I have watched my own upper GI tract during several upper GI studies, and there was indeed a small stomach pouch above my band every single time, no matter what else was going on in there (or not) at the same time. The radiologist pointed it out to me on every occasion, so I wasn't misreading the images. And by the way, that pouch was a normal finding, not an anomaly.

2. According to American bariatric surgeons I've talked to or whose seminars I've attended or whose articles I've read, NO bariatric surgery patient should drink while eating. In fact, at a bariatric conference 2 years ago, I heard that stated by 3 different surgeons who were giving 3 speeches. All of them stated that failure to separate consumption of solids and liquids is the most common cause of WLS "failure" (that is, no or disappointing weight loss, or weight regain). Since many LBT/Bariatric Pal members live in the USA and have surgeons in the USA, I think it behooves us to follow the instructions of our American doctors. Or, go to Australia for surgery and every fill and unfill and all aftercare. Hey, if I had the money to do that, it might even be fun to travel there, but it would sure disrupt the rest of my life. But hey, a mere $8,000 per trip (not counting hotels, meals, taxis, surgeon's fees, etc.) would be nothing for us rich Americans, right?

3. Every bariatric surgeon I've encountered (in person, on the telephone, online) has stated that the band does not and should not control the movement of food and liquids from the esophagus into the stomach. If the band is far enough up to do that, it has slipped or the surgeon who placed it was incompetent. What controls the movement of food and liquid from the esophagus into the upper stomach (the fundus) is a sphincter at the base of the esophagus where it joins to the stomach. Continually eating in a way that causes food to be stored in the esophagus is asking for trouble. It can cause serious and permanent damage to the esophagus and the esophageal sphincter.

3. No bandster should ever, ever eat in a way, with or without liquids, that allows food to sit in the esophagus for more than maybe 30 seconds. The esophagus is not meant to store food for any period of time. It's designed to move food up or down (preferably down) only. If food is sitting in the esophagus, any liquid consumed after that is probably going to come back up rather than flushing through the stoma, because at that point the upper stomach pouch and the stoma created by the band are probably already jammed up with food. PB's (or regurgitation of food) usually come from the esophagus, not from the upper stomach pouch, for the very reason I mentioned above. The stomach is designed to stretch to accommodate food, while the esophagus will resist stretching until the food has to come back up or (over time) the esophagus becomes dilated - something we all want to avoid, because even if the band is unfilled and the upper GI tract given a good long rest, there's no guarantee that the esophagus will ever go back to its normal state. And no one should have to live the rest of their life with a malfunctioning esophagus or sphincter. Esophageal dysmotility problems caused by careless eating can become a serious health issue, with the patient eventually having to live on liquids, live with a a feeding tube, and/or hope that an attempt at surgical repair will help. Surgery in that part of the upper GI tract is not something to take lightly, because the scar tissue that develops after surgery can also interfere with esophageal function. I speak from personal experience here. I had an esophageal stricture (from reflux damage). I lived on liquids for months, was unable to revise to the sleeve at the first try because my surgeon couldn't get the small (about the size and shape of a Sharpie marker) bougie calibration instrument through the stricture, and eventually had to have the stricture dilated enough to make eating possible, but not enough to make the stricture disappear forever (it was still there when I had an EGD 6 months later). I think esophageal dysmotility has also been a problem for an LBT member known as MsMaui, and last I heard, even an unfill, months of upper GI rest, and band removal have not resolved her problem.

4. So in my opinion, the best way to avoid these unhappy events and their consequences is not to drink while you eat but to avoid keeping too much fill in the band; to practice good band eating skills: take tiny bites, chew very well, eat slowly, don't drink while you eat, avoid problem foods, learn and heed your unique satiety or "stop eating" signals, and give your body the respect it deserves.

But what do I know?

Jean

[NaNa 878]

Naomi,

I know you mean well, but I think you've missed a few important pieces of data here.

1. The chief finding of the study you mentioned was that successful bandsters in Australia do drink (but not guzzle) while eating. Those findings did not explain why that's so. The "why" part is conjecture on the part of the study's authors. Also, I question their claim that "There is no pouch or small stomach above the band. There should never be food sitting there waiting." I agree with the last part of that ("There should never be food sitting there waiting") but I disagree with the first part and have no idea where they came up with the idea that there's no pouch or small stomach above the band. Yes, the band has been used in Australia a lot longer in the USA, but that statement completely contradicts everything I've read in Allergan and J&J literature and surgeon resource sites. And I have watched my own upper GI tract during several upper GI studies, and there was indeed a small stomach pouch above my band every single time, no matter what else was going on in there (or not) at the same time. The radiologist pointed it out to me on every occasion, so I wasn't misreading the images. And by the way, that pouch was a normal finding, not an anomaly.

2. According to American bariatric surgeons I've talked to or whose seminars I've attended or whose articles I've read, NO bariatric surgery patient should drink while eating. In fact, at a bariatric conference 2 years ago, I heard that stated by 3 different surgeons who were giving 3 speeches. All of them stated that failure to separate consumption of solids and liquids is the most common cause of WLS "failure" (that is, no or disappointing weight loss, or weight regain). Since many LBT/Bariatric Pal members live in the USA and have surgeons in the USA, I think it behooves us to follow the instructions of our American doctors. Or, go to Australia for surgery and every fill and unfill and all aftercare. Hey, if I had the money to do that, it might even be fun to travel there, but it would sure disrupt the rest of my life. But hey, a mere $8,000 per trip (not counting hotels, meals, taxis, surgeon's fees, etc.) would be nothing for us rich Americans, right?

3. Every bariatric surgeon I've encountered (in person, on the telephone, online) has stated that the band does not and should not control the movement of food and liquids from the esophagus into the stomach. If the band is far enough up to do that, it has slipped or the surgeon who placed it was incompetent. What controls the movement of food and liquid from the esophagus into the upper stomach (the fundus) is a sphincter at the base of the esophagus where it joins to the stomach. Continually eating in a way that causes food to be stored in the esophagus is asking for trouble. It can cause serious and permanent damage to the esophagus and the esophageal sphincter.

3. No bandster should ever, ever eat in a way, with or without liquids, that allows food to sit in the esophagus for more than maybe 30 seconds. The esophagus is not meant to store food for any period of time. It's designed to move food up or down (preferably down) only. If food is sitting in the esophagus, any liquid consumed after that is probably going to come back up rather than flushing through the stoma, because at that point the upper stomach pouch and the stoma created by the band are probably already jammed up with food. PB's (or regurgitation of food) usually come from the esophagus, not from the upper stomach pouch, for the very reason I mentioned above. The stomach is designed to stretch to accommodate food, while the esophagus will resist stretching until the food has to come back up or (over time) the esophagus becomes dilated - something we all want to avoid, because even if the band is unfilled and the upper GI tract given a good long rest, there's no guarantee that the esophagus will ever go back to its normal state. And no one should have to live the rest of their life with a malfunctioning esophagus or sphincter. Esophageal dysmotility problems caused by careless eating can become a serious health issue, with the patient eventually having to live on liquids, live with a a feeding tube, and/or hope that an attempt at surgical repair will help. Surgery in that part of the upper GI tract is not something to take lightly, because the scar tissue that develops after surgery can also interfere with esophageal function. I speak from personal experience here. I had an esophageal stricture (from reflux damage). I lived on liquids for months, was unable to revise to the sleeve at the first try because my surgeon couldn't get the small (about the size and shape of a Sharpie marker) bougie calibration instrument through the stricture, and eventually had to have the stricture dilated enough to make eating possible, but not enough to make the stricture disappear forever (it was still there when I had an EGD 6 months later). I think esophageal dysmotility has also been a problem for an LBT member known as MsMaui, and last I heard, even an unfill, months of upper GI rest, and band removal have not resolved her problem.

4. So in my opinion, the best way to avoid these unhappy events and their consequences is not to drink while you eat but to avoid keeping too much fill in the band; to practice good band eating skills: take tiny bites, chew very well, eat slowly, don't drink while you eat, avoid problem foods, learn and heed your unique satiety or "stop eating" signals, and give your body the respect it deserves.

But what do I know?

Jean

Jean,

Interesting and very articulate point....

You made some GOOD points by saying that PB's usually COMES from the Upper Pouch, that little section that the band creates...In all the literature that I've read we do not technically have a pouch, but FOOD is stored in the upper pouch created by the lap band, the area just below the esophagus....HENCE when we PB it's NOT REAL vomit, without the acid, it's just 'undigested" food which is called Bolus that comes right back up....

I guess this is an argument that US surgeons and surgeons in Australia need to argue...but you can't argue with O'Brien s green zone charts and his findings on drinking with food is not advantageous..