Have they found the Boxes Jesus was buried in?

[anonemouse 1]

laurend I just re-read your posts, I agree with Alexandra and Green...BRAVO!!!

Thank you. That is one claim that I won't step down from, because I know with 100% certainty that I am right. A religious terrorist isn't a person that believes that there is more than one path to heaven (or whatever their paradise is called). They aren't people that think everyone should be left alone to believe whatever they want to believe. They aren't people that think there might be more than one right answer out there. They are the people that think that their way is the only right way. They are the people that think everyone but the people that believe EXACTLY like they do are going to burn in hell. They are the ones that think everyone should live by their rules and their holy book. And I think anyone can see that those people are going to be the strict, ultra-conservative, fundamentalists, not the liberal members of a religion. So while neither one is really likely to become a religious terrorist, you can say with certainty which one is more likely.

That statement isn't bashing anyone's beliefs, it's stating a fact. And we shouldn't be barred from stating facts just because other people don't like their implications.

[Wheetsin 714]

Laurend, you're exactly right. And they believe all of the above so vehemently that they are willing to kill for their cause, because they're that right, and that convinced that it is the right thing to do.

Scary stuff.

[BJean 16]

Yeah. I hate to say this but I feel much safer knowing I'm not sitting in the room with some of the really extreme neo-cons, like Ann Coulter... and perhaps even a particular bandster who is near and dear to us. Not that they'd cut my head off, but I'm pretty sure they'd want to.

[gadgetlady 4]

Not that they'd cut my head off, but I'm pretty sure they'd want to.

Truly, truly amazing. Along with everything that preceeded it, which I don't have the time or energy to comment on.

[gadgetlady 4]

Laurend, you're exactly right. And they believe all of the above so vehemently that they are willing to kill for their cause, because they're that right, and that convinced that it is the right thing to do.

Scary stuff.

Amazing. Liberals never kill for their cause? So I guess Communists, Marxists, and Socialists are all peace-loving and never instituted any genocide on their own people.

BTW, just for those of you who are freaked out about fundamentalist Christians and really believe your own rhetoric, I am about as fundamentalist as they come. Yet I abhor violence and I would never, ever, for a freakin' instant consider killing someone because they don't believe what I choose to believe. I am also a libertarian.

One other thing. Don't those of you who are athiests believe people of faith are WRONG? Just like those of us who are Christians believe athiests are WRONG? Why is it OK for you to believe that we're wrong and not the opposite? I have never, ever told anyone they're going to hell. It's not my decision to make. And it certainly isn't good ammunition in a debate against someone who doesn't believe in hell! I will most certainly share my beliefs with them, but I have a right to my beliefs and I have a right to share them. I'm constantly amazed that liberals preach tolerance and yet are intolerant of Christians.

[BJean 16]

gadgetlady: the liberals I know are not communists, Marxists or socialists. (Don't we all just love the labels that we like to impose on others!)

The difference between the liberals I know and the neo-cons I've brushed up against is that the liberals are vocal about how wrong they think the neo-cons are. The neo-cons want to take up arms against liberals.

Now not all neo-cons are necessarily gun-totin' extremists out looking for a kill, but some are. Those are the ones people keep talking about here.

[gadgetlady 4]

Now not all neo-cons are necessarily gun-totin' extremists out looking for a kill, but some are. Those are the ones people keep talking about here.

Gosh, I got the DISTINCT impression that *I* was being talked about here. And I am not a gun-totin' extremist out looking for a kill.

Don't we all just love the labels that we like to impose on others!

[Wheetsin 714]

Amazing. Liberals never kill for their cause?

I never said that. Saying that religious terrorists kill for their cause is not mutually exclusive of any other group killing for a cause.

One other thing. Don't those of you who are athiests believe people of faith are WRONG? Just like those of us who are Christians believe athiests are WRONG? Why is it OK for you to believe that we're wrong and not the opposite? I have never, ever told anyone they're going to hell. It's not my decision to make. And it certainly isn't good ammunition in a debate against someone who doesn't believe in hell! I will most certainly share my beliefs with them, but I have a right to my beliefs and I have a right to share them. I'm constantly amazed that liberals preach tolerance and yet are intolerant of Christians.

Your post appeared to be a response to me, so I take it as such for now. I do not believe christians are WRONG (capitalized or not), I think they believe differently than I do, and that as much as religion does not make sense to me, it does to them. My parents are christians and I have never told them they are wrong. Nor have I told any of the many other christians in my life that they are wrong. At least not on the basis of their faith. Having the wrong answer on a test, things like that are a different story. I do not share my parents belief. I do not judge them for believing what they do. I accept them for who they are. I would probably take it for granted that at least most christians I know think my beliefs are wrong, and that's fine with me. I know my parents think I am wrong, and that's fine and "ok" -- very far from "not okay".

*ETA: I just thought of an analogy for this. Someone can tell you something, and to you it is a lie, but you completely believe that they completely believe it. Hence, while it is wrong for you, it is not wrong for them. Religion is kind of the same way, though with obvious differences.

I'm constantly amazed that liberals preach tolerance and yet are intolerant of Christians.

That's quite a blanket statement. Many liberals are also christians.

[green 6]

Amazing. Liberals never kill for their cause? So I guess Communists, Marxists, and Socialists are all peace-loving and never instituted any genocide on their own people.

BTW, just for those of you who are freaked out about fundamentalist Christians and really believe your own rhetoric, I am about as fundamentalist as they come. Yet I abhor violence and I would never, ever, for a freakin' instant consider killing someone because they don't believe what I choose to believe. I am also a libertarian.

One other thing. Don't those of you who are athiests believe people of faith are WRONG? Just like those of us who are Christians believe athiests are WRONG? Why is it OK for you to believe that we're wrong and not the opposite? I have never, ever told anyone they're going to hell. It's not my decision to make. And it certainly isn't good ammunition in a debate against someone who doesn't believe in hell! I will most certainly share my beliefs with them, but I have a right to my beliefs and I have a right to share them. I'm constantly amazed that liberals preach tolerance and yet are intolerant of Christians.

Gadget, I think the point is not the issue of belief between the people of faith - be they Christians, Muslims, Environmentalists, Animal Rights types, Non-Smokers, liberals or whatever - but rather their refusal to engage in debate and to recognise the civil rights of their opponents that is the point which is currently under discussion in these wonderful western cultures.

[sophrosyne 0]

One other thing. Don't those of you who are athiests believe people of faith are WRONG? Just like those of us who are Christians believe athiests are WRONG? Why is it OK for you to believe that we're wrong and not the opposite? I have never, ever told anyone they're going to hell. It's not my decision to make. And it certainly isn't good ammunition in a debate against someone who doesn't believe in hell! I will most certainly share my beliefs with them, but I have a right to my beliefs and I have a right to share them. I'm constantly amazed that liberals preach tolerance and yet are intolerant of Christians.

WTF? What's with this WRONG crap? Christians believe what they believe, atheists believe what they believe. Who's to say if one is right or wrong?

Although, when it comes to the "you're going to Hell" crap, I ONLY hear that from Christians. Other religions don't believe in hell, so why would they use that as an attempt to scare someone?

Let me amend that... When other people use it, I think they're trying to point out the hypocrisy within many people. For instance, if you kill someone, you're going to hell. According to Christians. But if they kill a doctor who performs abortion, all of a sudden the rules change.

Personally, I think people should live ethically. But if they're incapable of having their own ethics (and some people are) than they absolutely should live by the Ten Commandments and the word of the Lord. Because it gives them an ethical compass that they themselves are lacking.

Now, if the neo-cons would follow the preachings of Jesus, instead of the preachings of Hitler, the world would be much better off.

[gadgetlady 4]

Gadget, I think the point is not the issue of belief between the people of faith - be they Christians, Muslims, Environmentalists, Animal Rights types, Non-Smokers, liberals or whatever - but rather their refusal to engage in debate and to recognise the civil rights of their opponents that is the point which is currently under discussion in these wonderful western cultures.

That's ridiculous. I don't think anyone is refusing to engage in debate (discussion is a better word, I think), and certainly no one is refusing to recognize anyone's civil rights!

[gadgetlady 4]

WTF? What's with this WRONG crap? Christians believe what they believe, atheists believe what they believe. Who's to say if one is right or wrong?

I didn't say one side was RIGHT and the other side was WRONG. I said that if a person believes one thing and that one thing is diametrically opposed to another thing, he must LOGICALLY believe that the other thing is WRONG. I don't go around telling people, "I think you're wrong". Humorously enough, aren't you telling me I'm WRONG in this post? (Which is fine, BTW, because that's what you believe).

Although, when it comes to the "you're going to Hell" crap, I ONLY hear that from Christians. Other religions don't believe in hell, so why would they use that as an attempt to scare someone?

For instance, if you kill someone, you're going to hell. According to Christians. But if they kill a doctor who performs abortion, all of a sudden the rules change.

Talk about crap. Christians -- real Christians -- don't believe it's OK to kill abortionists. Pro-aborts wave that flag like it's the mantra of pro-lifers and it just plain isn't.

Now, if the neo-cons would follow the preachings of Jesus, instead of the preachings of Hitler, the world would be much better off.

Yup, and everyone wonders why I call "foul."

[gadgetlady 4]

Your post appeared to be a response to me, so I take it as such for now. I do not believe christians are WRONG (capitalized or not), I think they believe differently than I do, and that as much as religion does not make sense to me, it does to them.

That's very PC, but let me ask you a question. You believe when one dies, there is no afterlife and one's body is simply going to rot in the ground. I believe when one dies, there is an afterlife and one's body is going to rot in the ground, but ones spirit is going to live eternally.

Either you believe A) one of us is right and the other is wrong, or for those who believe there is no afterlife, there is no afterlife, and those who believe there is an afterlife will live eternally. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you are a "Camp B" person.

My parents are christians and I have never told them they are wrong. Nor have I told any of the many other christians in my life that they are wrong. At least not on the basis of their faith. Having the wrong answer on a test, things like that are a different story. I do not share my parents belief. I do not judge them for believing what they do. I accept them for who they are. I would probably take it for granted that at least most christians I know think my beliefs are wrong, and that's fine with me. I know my parents think I am wrong, and that's fine and "ok" -- very far from "not okay".

*ETA: I just thought of an analogy for this. Someone can tell you something, and to you it is a lie, but you completely believe that they completely believe it. Hence, while it is wrong for you, it is not wrong for them. Religion is kind of the same way, though with obvious differences.

I don't disagree with you on ANY of these points. I do not run around this board or my personal life pointing out where other people are wrong, and I don't think anyone who knows me IRL accuses me of disrespecting other beliefs. I am simply trying to point out that Bible-believing Christians are regularly attacked because they believe the way to heaven is narrow, which non-Christians believe is wrong, yet no one ever criticizes the non-Christians because they are attacking a belief THEY believe is wrong.

[sophrosyne 0]

I didn't say one side was RIGHT and the other side was WRONG. I said that if a person believes one thing and that one thing is diametrically opposed to another thing, he must LOGICALLY believe that the other thing is WRONG. I don't go around telling people, "I think you're wrong". Humorously enough, aren't you telling me I'm WRONG in this post? (Which is fine, BTW, because that's what you believe).

No, it doesn't follow logically. It's not SCIENCE, it's FAITH. Different beliefs are like different trees in the same forest. How can one tree be wrong or right?

Did I say you were wrong for your beliefs? In any post? Even though they're not MY beliefs?

Talk about crap. Christians -- real Christians -- don't believe it's OK to kill abortionists. Pro-aborts wave that flag like it's the mantra of pro-lifers and it just plain isn't.

Isn't that the point though? That's the hypocrisy that religious terrorists indulge in - convincing themselves that they have the one true right belief. When anyone with half a brain can see that their behavior is making a mockery of their beliefs.

For instance, real Christians would NEVER kill someone. The religious zealots, however, HAVE killed people in the name of Christianity. And for some reason, think that's okay.

[anonemouse 1]

I am going to post this once more, because you apparently still aren't getting it, even after our PMs last night, Gadgetlady.

No one here is saying anything about other terrorists. Of course, other people can be terrorists. We are not saying that only conservative fundamentalists are terrorists. We are saying that conservative fundamentalists are more likely to become religious terrorists than people who aren't conservative fundamentalists. Being religious should not make you blind to that point. People making that point are not attacking you or any other religious person. It is a fact.

I am getting sick and tired of people telling me that I am attacking them when I am not and screaming that we are all Christian-haters. Look in the mirror, I say. You guys aren't innocent, so stop pretending you are. You talk about hate, like everyone else is doing the hating and you are the hated. You are doing some hating yourself, Gadgetlady. You want everyone else to admit that they are bashing the Christians, but you never want to admit to doing some bashing yourself. I would like a reply to the PM I sent last night, please. To me, not replying basically proves my point. You want to accuse others of hate and bashing without taking acceptance for your own actions and the actions of the others in your group.

By the way, what's this about pro-abortion? That's a inaccurate term intended to stir up controversy. Do you want me to call pro-lifers pro-rape-babyists? Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion, it equals pro-choice.