Have they found the Boxes Jesus was buried in?

[wavydaby 1]

My tivo is set to record it tonight at 1 am. I thought it premered to night at 9, however Heroes is on tonight and that is my #1 priority

[gadgetlady 4]

I watched most of it. I missed some of the beginning. Living in the greater-LA area, I have been involved with a number of Hollywood productions and this one (even though it was produced in Canada) had the typical components of Hollywood and was more of a drama than a documentary.

I found it quite interesting that they did two DNA tests. One on the supposed bones of Jesus and one on the supposed bones of Mary Magdalene. The conclusion of these tests was (drum roll please) that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married because they did not have the same mother. HUH? Why not test Mary (the mother of Jesus) to Jesus? Or the supposed child of Jesus and Mary Magdalene to Jesus and Mary Magdalene? Or perhaps those tests WERE done but the results didn't fit into the premise of the drama.

I received a wonderful commentary on the show in my email today. I will post it below this one.

[gadgetlady 4]

Wailing at the Tomb?

Christians Should Face the Facts in The Discovery Documentary

By Gregory Koukl

(www.str.org)

The documentary “The Lost Tomb of Jesus” hadn’t even aired yet and many Christians were already in a panic. Just the suggestion that someone found Jesus’ bones in a limestone box had believers by the droves shaking their fists or sticking their heads in the sand in a don’t-confuse-me-with-the-facts posture.

Apparently, many Christians don’t even need to see the evidence to pass judgment. When one Evangelical web site polled its visitors with the question, “Do you believe the ‘Tomb of Jesus' documentary, which denies the resurrection of Christ?” 97% said no. This was three days before the documentary even aired. Blind faith is so convenient, isn’t it? You never have to actually confront your critics.

Then there’s the bullies. One media watchdog demanded Discovery “cancel this slanderous ‘documentary.’” Another prominent Evangelical organization composed this letter for their constituents to hammer Discovery with:

"I resent the Discovery Channel's attempt to demean and belittle Christianity by saying it is based on a lie. It is hard for me to believe that The Discovery Channel would dare do such a 'documentary' on any other religion.

"It may turn out that you have done Christianity a favor by awakening millions of Christians to your anti-Christian bias and bigotry. Perhaps they will no longer stay silent."

This kind of bullying is profoundly embarrassing to me, a follower of Christ, and should be discomfiting to every thoughtful Christian. It is not only a dismal retreat from a legitimate challenge that must be answered; it’s obscurantist.

Look, if the Bible says it and you believe it, that might settle it for you, but it doesn’t settle it for millions who might be interested in your ideas and are waiting to hear a thoughtful response to what appears on the surface to be a fair challenge.

There are good reasons to doubt the conclusions of this documentary, but no one will ever know them if Christians pull up the drawbridge and bellow from the parapet. Having seen the documentary, here are some problems that quickly come to mind:

• Scholars have known about these tombs for over 25 years. There’s a reason they haven’t taken these names seriously. Only three have any direct biblical significance: Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. And that cluster of names is statistically unremarkable. In fact, it would be odd if a family with those three names was not found in a tomb together, given their common use (there are at least four ossuaries discovered inscribed “Jesus, son of Joseph,” and one in four women were named Mary, so it’s even money that one of these tombs would have that combination). And connection of Jesus to any of the other names? Wild speculation. So what you have here is a creative guessing game.
  
• 
  
• The entire argument is based on the statistical significance of the names in a cluster. If Jesus was married, and if Jesus was married to a woman named Mariamne, and if Mariamne was also a nickname for Mary Magdalene, and if Jesus had a brother named Matthew, and if Jesus had a son named Judas, and if the now-famous James ossuary belonged to James the brother of Jesus, then you’d have all the members of Jesus’ family together in one tomb. But that’s a lot of “ifs.
  
• 
  
• Even though this is called the “Jesus Family Tomb,” there is no hard evidence that any of these so-called “family members” is even related. The only DNA testing that’s been done—between Jesus and Mariamne—came up negative. Let me repeat that: The DNA test came up negative. That is fact. The rest is speculation.
  
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• The documentary claims, “Jesus and Mary were married, as the DNA evidence suggests.” This is nonsense. Think about it. How can DNA evidence suggest someone is married? DNA can’t “suggest” anything about legal relationships, only biological ones. In this case, the DNA evidence showed Jesus and Mary were not related by a mother, not that they were husband and wife. The truth is, she could have been married to any one of the males in the tomb, or to none of them for that matter. The DNA “suggests” nothing.
  
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• The researchers claim they’re just trying to connect the dots? Fair enough. But why connect the dots the way they did? I’ll tell you why. Because it tells their story. There are many other legitimate ways to connect those same dots—some much more probable than the way the documentary connects them, but won’t give the story they’re promoting. But, of course, that wouldn’t create breaking news, would it?
  
• 
  
• Jesus’ family was a poor family from Nazareth, not a middle- to upper-class family from Jerusalem. So this tomb is the wrong kind of tomb located in the wrong city.
  
• 
  
• The documentary claims Jesus spoke in codes. This is false. Jesus spoke in parables, like many of the teachers of His day, not in codes that needed to be deciphered. They say Mary Magdalene was Jesus’ most trusted apostle. But you have to wait 400 years before this evidence pops up in any alleged historical record. They said that Jesus’ family members were executed because He was a pretender to throne of Israel. This is pure fiction. Notice what this accomplishes, though. All of these little exaggerations and inaccuracies make an unlikely tale sound more plausible when, on its own unembellished merits, it is not.
  
• 
  
• What we have here are two different characterizations of what happened to the body of Jesus of Nazareth 2,000 years ago. One is based on artifacts—the ossuaries—and one is based on documents—the historical records of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter and Paul. Now granted, these kinds of things are not entirely exact science, but all things being equal, which do you think gives us more precise information, bone boxes or written records? The written records, obviously.
  
• 
  
• The claim of Jesus’ resurrection, was part of the earliest, most primitive testimony regarding Jesus. And it was made by those very same people that the documentary suggests knew Jesus’ bones were actually secretly buried in Jerusalem. Why would so many of them die for this lie when they knew it was a lie? It doesn’t add up. But that’s what you must believe if you take seriously the conclusions of this documentary.
  

If Christianity stands or falls on the historical fact of Jesus’ resurrection, as the Apostle Paul said, then Christ’s followers have no liberty to retreat behind blind faith or hide behind an angry scowl.

No, if you’re a Christian you shouldn’t run, whine, scream, or have a religious tantrum. Instead, you should be thanking the Discovery Channel for giving you the chance to step up to the plate and knock this soft ball out of the park.

[anonemouse 1]

Gadgetlady, was it one of those docudrama things, like the History Channel likes to run, or the Discovery Channel airs, that use actors to portray historical figures? I think I may have flipped past it at one point, and I thought I saw actors. If so, I hate that kind of program. Ick. I think they're funny, because they invariably hire horrendous actors, making the entire thing more humerous than educational. And I'm one who prefers my educational programs to be educational.

[gadgetlady 4]

Gadgetlady, was it one of those docudrama things, like the History Channel likes to run, or the Discovery Channel airs, that use actors to portray historical figures? I think I may have flipped past it at one point, and I thought I saw actors. If so, I hate that kind of program. Ick. I think they're funny, because they invariably hire horrendous actors, making the entire thing more humerous than educational. And I'm one who prefers my educational programs to be educational.

It was, IMO, part docudrama and part reality TV. There were flashbacks to "historical events" such as Jesus lovingly saving Mary Magdalene from being stoned, and Jesus looking down from the cross at his wife and son. There were also predictable "gasps" at DNA "evidence" (or non-evidence, as it were) that proved nothing. And, in the final scene, the "production" was shut down by the authorities requiring the supposed tomb to be sealed with a cement slab before they could get more experts in to analyze writings on the wall. As the credits ran, I was none too surprised to see James Cameron as the Executive Producer -- you know, the "scholar" from Terminator, The Abyss, and Titanic. The text then invited the viewer to draw his own conclusions. It is unfortunate that many will be bowled over by excellent graphics, story-writing, and editing, to believe what they saw was the "God's honest truth".

[anonemouse 1]

There were flashbacks to "historical events" such as Jesus lovingly saving Mary Magdalene from being stoned, and Jesus looking down from the cross at his wife and son.

Oh, yack. :puke:I think I'll avoid the program when it re-airs, then.

Speaking of Discovery programs, did anyone see "Expedition Borneo"? Now THAT was the type of program I like. I'd kill to do something like that, bugs and all.

[lisah25 3]

I found it quite interesting that they did two DNA tests. One on the supposed bones of Jesus and one on the supposed bones of Mary Magdalene. The conclusion of these tests was (drum roll please) that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married because they did not have the same mother. HUH? Why not test Mary (the mother of Jesus) to Jesus? Or the supposed child of Jesus and Mary Magdalene to Jesus and Mary Magdalene? Or perhaps those tests WERE done but the results didn't fit into the premise of the drama.

LOL-so because Jesus and Mary didn't have a DNA link, the show came to the conclusion they had to have been married - . Interesting, if baffleing.

I agree, why didn't they test the child against Mary and Jesus?

[BJean 16]

I was mad at myself for missing it last night. I plum forgot. Not unusual for me. But today I listened to a commentary on it and to some media people discussing it and I believe the article that gadgetlady posted above pretty well summed up what I heard. Pretty much a non-event, actually. Contrived and sensational, but not a lot of serious evidence.

[gadgetlady 4]

I agree, why didn't they test the child against Mary and Jesus?

IMO, they did and the results didn't fit the premise of their drama.

[lisah25 3]

IMO, they did and the results didn't fit their drama.

Yeah, I agree that's a good possibility. Wonder if anyone involved will address that anytime.

[gadgetlady 4]

On the website of course there are discussion boards addressing many topics. Amazing stuff, actually, with one thread entitled "Christianity is going DOWN, DOWN, DOWN!!!!!" (and then, of course, lots of hatespeak after that). LOL! Not, not, not.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

“Do you believe the ‘Tomb of Jesus' documentary, which denies the resurrection of Christ?”

That is a question like "Have you stopped beating your wife". It is a question that makes assumptions. It assumes (and tricks you into admitting whether you answer "yes" or "no") that you were beating your wife.

The question from the posted article pretends to ask if you believe the documentary that they have found the bones of Jesus, but really asks if you believe that it disproves the resurrection of Jesus.

Why must finding the bones and the resurrection be mutually exclusive?

As I stated in the opening post of this thread:

I don't care if it was the human body of Jesus that was resurrected or a hologram type image that one could put their hand through.

If it was a spirit type image of Jesus rather than a corporeal body leaving the tomb, then there could be a resurrection and a box with the bones of Jesus.

If (and this is a big "IF") they can prove that those are the bones of Jesus Christ, our Saviour, it will not shock nor reduce my faith in Jesus. I hope all Christians can say the same thing.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

was none too surprised to see James Cameron as the Executive Producer -- you know, the "scholar" from Terminator

What is wrong with the Terminator? It got Arnold elected "Governator of California"!!

[BJean 16]

I'll be baack. So change the laws so I can be president.

[anonemouse 1]

I'll be baack. So change the laws so I can be president.

To be honest, I'd be willing to pit his aptitude for presidency against the Shrub. He could hardly be worse.