Obesity Debate w/Coworker; Progress?

[TheCascadian 1]

I had a minor/friendly debate with a coworker about the merits of obesity surgery. But I think I might have made some progress by the end of it. We were talking about all of our coworkers who have had gastric bypass and how great they look. I mentioned that they had inspired me to get banded and he asked me about it. He listened for a moment and then, in a very friendly way, began to question my diet, exercise and personal history. We are normally very open with each other so I didn't feel he was prying or being nosy, but my answers didn't seem to satisfy him.

He suggested elliptical trainers, cardio, seeing a nutritionist, eating 6-10 times a day, the usual clap-trap. He basically stated that surgery really was unnecessary that that fat people should just work harder. He said they are eating too much and if they just ate a normal 2,500 calorie diet and did some cardio they'd shed the pounds and be thin.

I pointed about that my diet was well under 3,000 calories and that I worked out regularly for years and was gaining weight the whole time.

He responded that I must have a thyroid condition. I told him he was dead wrong, that I'd just had that test last week and have perfect thyroid function.

Clearly, he didn't get it, so I tried to explain things to him a little more, to no avail. We went back and forth on it. Finally, I got a bit fed up and pointed something out to him (coworkers names changed to protect the innocent):

I said, "Jim is thin and healthy, right? So if he got the bypass surgery, what would happen to him?"

Coworker says, "He'd prolly be really sick and might even die. His body wouldn't be getting enough calories! He's too thin to have the surgery done."

I responded, "Exactly. So Peter was really fat, got the bypass surgery done almost 3 years ago and ever since then he's been thin. In fact, he's about the same size as Jim, right? Same height and weight, right?"

He agreed this was true. Then I laid down the clincher:

"Why isn't Peter now dying from malnourishment and hunger? Why is he struggling to maintain his weight loss even eating tiny portions and exercising, all while Jim still eats whatever he wants and never exercises and stays the same weight?"

My coworker looked stumped at this idea, that clearly the patient's starting body weight was irrelevant for a permanent surgery like gastric bypass... But I was just getting started. I said,

"If what we ate and how we exercised were the solution for morbid obesity, there would not be very many morbidly fat people. It took a massive rerouting of Peter's digestive track to get him to where diet and exercise even have a chance of controlling his weight. He and Jim may look the similar on the outside, but inside they are hardly the same species.'

'They are obviously processing and using calories very differently or else people who had bariatric surgery would all eventually get too thin and die off. Instead, even with surgery, some people never lose all their excess weight and have to put in constant effort forever just to stay thin!"

He seemed impressed by this and said, "I never thought about it that way, but you got me with that one. If what I said was true, Peter should be really getting sick by now!" He was laughing ruefully and I was getting into it, so I continued on my rant.

I said, "Have you been on a strict diet and exercise regimen every day of your life to stay thin? Or do you generally eat what you want and exercise when you feel like it? When you gain a few pounds, does it really take more than a few weeks of mild effort to shed that weight?'

He laughed again and agreed that he didn't really do ANY of the things he was suggesting I do and that he easily lost weight. I kept on my rant:

"Normal people maintain a healthy weight with nary a thought of diet or exercise. Obese people gain weight almost inexorably. Some fat people cannot control their compulsive eating due to mental health issues, but most of us are simply hungry too often or for too much AND our bodies happily convert everything we do eat into fat. It packs on easily and burns off hardly at all. We are not normal and someday doctors and thin people are going to realize that, stop putting us down and start looking for a cure to the disease we have- a cure that doesn't involve chopping into our guts."

He threw up his hands and surrendered the point. Though I was off on quite the tangent, it was all in good fun. He could tell he really got my goat even though I ultimately won the debate, so I guess it was sort of a draw.

Anyway, I do think I made progress helping him understand what we go through. No, more than that... I think he understands now just a little bit about WHAT WE ARE. It was a good conversation, so I had to share it with all of you.

[lisah25 3]

Very interesting conversation!!

[louise162 0]

I totally agree with everything you've so eloquently written. Thank you for putting into words what I've been trying to tell people!

[TracyinKS 7]

GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!

Gettem'

[juliegeraci 7]

You are dead on. When I initially met with my surgeon he pointed out that obesity was a disease. Just like being diabetic. You can help it through diet and exercise naturally but for those of us who have failed lapband is a great tool to help us. I am glad you made your point known. You sound like you are doing very well.

[Keluliana 0]

Thank you for sticking up for us. It drives me nuts when people snub their noses and dismiss surgery as 'the easy way out.' One skinny idiot down, 5 billion to go....

[TheCascadian 1]

Thanks, I figured you guys would appreciate it.

I'm always amazed that WLS "deniers" (yeah I stole that one from Al Gore) don't look at it rationally until you put that little "conundrum" of the thin bypass person versus the thin regular person in front of them...

I have a pet theory that morbid obesity is just some genetic side effect of being famine-resistant. We are OBVIOUSLY hard to starve to death, since all of our surgeries effectively put us in a famine-like state and still can fail at keeping us thin!

I tease my skinny friends that when the apocalypse happens and there's no food, I'm gonna be looking AWESOME riding around in my Jeep like Mad Max. ;D

[DynamoMini 1]

Cascadian -

I totally agree with your argument supporting the obesity conumdrum. It is frustrating to have "normals" complaining that WLS is the easy way out. I'm angry that I have to get banded, but I think it is the only chance I now have to get to a normal weight and stay there. Just like you, I was an Optifast All Star and went down to a normal weight. Within a year I had gained 60 pounds back, and within two years I had gained the other 20 and 40 more. Would this ever happen to a thin person. No way!

My goal is the weight loss, but more than that, it is staying in the zone where I am healthy.

Thanks for telling it like it is. I also believe in former lives, I survived without food for long periods of time, during times of famine.

Good thoughts,

[Paulax 8]

YA!

Yes, excellent responce Cascadian. This is why I keep it to myself and a select few. I am just too tired to argue with every naysayer. But, no one would bug me if I needed a new hip or knee, or needed insulin.

I too believe that this is an excellent tool. But the 'answer' to morbid obesity has not yet been found. I believe that one day this may be a brain surgery. And I am not just saying that.

I felt 'cured' with Phen Fen. It turned off the hunger-obsessive-compulsive center in my brain. I took it for only 3 months before it was taken off the market. But I believe that was the answer for me, and while I was on it, I remember saying to myself, 'so THIS is what it feels like to be 'normal''.

So thank goodness there is surgery for us.

I also would like to quote Jack here, from the biggest weight loss myth thread. He posted this and I have been thinking about it ever since.

....that the Band is 'the easy way' and it is somehow more admirable to suffer Morbid Obesity than to do something effective rather than continue whatever personal ineffective favorite weight control the casual uninformed and ignorant critic wants to impose upon us...

[Jachut 487]

Its an endlessly fascinating question.

For myself, I personally dont think I use calories any differently from the average Joe, my appetite was just set too high for my energy needs, because basically, what the band has allowed me to do is eat 2000 calories a day and when I added serious exercise to that, whoosh, the weight went away.

For a woman and a bandster, 2000 calories is a lot, but I've lost just fine on it. I'm struggling with the last five or six kilos though, I'm going in for a bit of a tune up to get that off, but I do think that at goal, I'll be having a bit of Fluid out because I can maintain quite well on 2000 calories a day, I've been doing so for months.

But then, I never got morbidly obese either. I was just fat, and didnt want to become morbidly obese.

But for other people, they do all the right things and it STILL doesnt work for them. I agree with you, there IS something different about the way their bodies processes energy from what they eat. I dont do lo carb myself but I do believe some people are almost allergic to carbs, they just have to eat a high Protein low carb diet to have any hope of not just getting fatter and fatter.

I dont think science can explain it now, otherwise we'd fix it. Hopefully one day.

But I think what all fat people have in common is a hyperinterest in food and a dysfunctional relationship around it that normal weight people often dont just buy into. They dont care about it like we do. I can see the difference between my two sons for instance, one is showing the family trait of being quite solidly built, the other son is a little whippet, full of energy. Number one son can smell food a mile off, he's ridiculous around it, he'd trample over the little ones to get to the table first, number two goes seemingly days without eating. They've grown up int he same circumstances, same household - what makes them so different?

[tonya66 13]

Well said my friend, well said!

[TheCascadian 1]

I felt 'cured' with Phen Fen. It turned off the hunger-obsessive-compulsive center in my brain.

I was on Xenadrine for a while, back when it still had Ephedra in it. The only result for me was intense paranoia and skittishness. I started having panics attacks whenever the phone rang or it was "too quiet" in the room for a while! LOL!

I never tried Phen Fen... Ah well, heart damage is a real bear. Sucks that you found something that works- only with fatal side effects. *sigh*

[beachgirl 2]

I admire you for what you said and you couldn't be more correct. I had tried every diet known to mankind and had only been overweight for 5 years and was 100 pounds overweight. I was always very small. Then had a couple of surgeries and then hit 40 and they did a test that showed my metabolism was working at less than 1 percent capacity so you couldn't be more correct. I had the surgery 7 months ago and althought the past 2 months it's really slowed down I lost 60 pounds the first 5 months and the bigger you are the faster you loose. I'm sure things will pick back up.

Congrats on your decision to a healthier, happier, better looking you and you will love your band.

[TheCascadian 1]

For myself, I personally dont think I use calories any differently from the average Joe...

There are definately either different (but related) diseases, or different levels of the one disease that are affecting each us in our own way. We definately are not one-size-fits-all on here!

Do you think you'd have trouble maintaining a healthy weight on a gastric bypass surgery?