Nursing Home Abuse

[GeezerSue 7]

My mom is currently in an Assisted Living facility--one with no nursing home section...if you need more help, you have to move elsewhere---and I am fearful about what the next move might be.

I'm not sure what it would cost to find a roommate or two or three--depending on how many rooms are in the house--and then have the two or four residents share the cost of having a REAL caregiver--a nurse if needed--on site.

My mom has an apartment in a senior development. There are good and bad caregivers. But if a good caregiver can be found, creative problem solving can be had.

For example, a local "good" caregiver charges $100-150/day as a live-in. A bargain. Even more of a bargain if two people were to share the cost and just have regular household help in for cleaning, etc. And, since most of the people who need this kind of help also qualify for Meals on Wheels, there would be little cooking.

I'm thinking that if a caregiver had help with the heavier chores--laundry, housecleaning, etc--and had a place of her own in the residence, decent help might be found.

BTW...in this society, we farm out our infants, our elderly and the parts on our military equipment and space shuttles to the lowest bidder...strange, aren't we?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

My FIL is in a nursing home, he has Alzheimers. And we make sure someone, us or MIL, is there a LOT. At odd times. We keep a really close eye on him and how he's doing. MIL is there at mealtime a lot. And I feel like this is a pretty good facility overall, but so many aren't, and for patients that no one is checking on, I really wonder.

It's a cause I'm behind.

I agree 100% about needing to have people visit a lot. My mother-in-law would go to visit her husband 7 days a week and stay from early morning until after dinner. She tried to be there for at least two of his three meals each day. As long as she was there to feed him and to make sure he drank liquids, things were fine (except for the occasional bruise which no one could prove was abuse). Whenever my mother-in-law was sick, I would drive my wife to the nursing home for at least one meal. He never had a urinary infection. But...

My wife and in-laws are British, so when my wife's aunt, my mother-in-law's sister died, they both went to London for the funeral and stayed almost a month to catch up on their many relatives. I was working full time and working overtime, plus doing all the house work, including taking care of my three dogs, so of course, visits to my father-in-law were scarce, even though he had two children and at least a half dozen adult grand-children living in Brooklyn.

Can you spell urinary infection? As soon as my wife and mother-in-law returned from England, my father-in-law was in the hospital, suffering from dehydration and a urinary infection.

It is easy to say that we will visit our relatives often when they are in nursing homes. Most of us have children to raise, jobs to go to, shopping, adult night school, and many other reasons that are part of living our own lives. Plus, it is the American way for families to move to other cities and states, either for employment reasons or to improve living conditions. My mother-in-law was the exception. Not many people spend over 90 hours a week (including traveling time) visiting. Every time my mother-in-law was unable to visit for a long period of time, my father-in-law got sick. Invariably it was dehydration and a urinary infection.

It was the same with my step-father. When I was able to visit at least 3 times a week, he stayed healthy. As soon as I missed a week or two, dehydration and a urinary infection.

Both my step-father and my father-in-law outlived many room mates. My father-in-law outlived about 15, my step-father about 8. Coincidence? Frequency of family visits? Make your own conclusions.

[Carlene 12]

I don't care what the expense is to me, my parents will never - NEVER - be in a nursing home as long as I'm alive and able to care for them.

I'm with you, Wheetsin. Although both my parents are deceased, my 86 year old mother-in-law lives with me and will continue to do so until her death. I took care of my mom for the last years of her life, just as she and her sisters cared for my grandmother and two of my grandmother's siblings who had no children of their own. In my family, we do not warehouse our old people and call it "skilled care".

I just hope that my kids feel the same way and are up for changing my diapers when I'm 90. It's not exactly the way most of us see ourselves spending our early retirement years, but you do what you have to do.

[wootsie73 0]

I have to say that I agree with everyone here. Hopefully, I will be healthy enough, like Carlene, to care for my parents when they become ill. But, I'm already disabled from a lung infection I caught at work about 5 or 6 years ago at work from a ventilator patient, so I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do that. However, I believe our country as a whole has it's priorities all mixed up. I'm again talking about the professional sports teams. We pay sometimes thousands of dollars a year to attend these games, which makes the prices keep going up. We kick people out of their homes to build fancier football stadiums, so they can charge more money, thus a vicious circle. That's where a lot of the money to cover these expenses should come from. Why should a team pay their quarterback 40 or 50 million dollars because they can throw a decent pass or call good plays. That's just stupid, and I believe something could be done about it if the American people would stop supporting them.

Again, I have to say that under staffing is soooooooooo bad for the patients. It doesn't matter if it's a nursing home or a hospital, the facilities should not be allowed to get away with it, but they do. And, they will continue to until the patient population throws a fit and puts a stop to it. There need to be laws passed to prevent the exact things we are talking about here. If no one does anything, then nothing will happen.

Joan

[kansas sooner 0]

The things that you have been discribing is awful. The lack of quality staff to give loving care is unacceptable. I live in KS and have worked with the elderly in southeast Ks for 10 yrs. The type of things that you describe about these nursing homes is still like the nursing homes of the past. I am a strong believer that families have to stay in touch with the home. Making suprise visits themselves.

The key thing is if you are needing to find placement for a loved one is to do your homework. Check with your state agencies that govern these homes. Stop and talk with residents that are able to articulate to find out how they feel about the home. Check out the previous years surveys. Some states have comparrisons on line that you can find out what type of problem the state people have found on their previous vists. These homes are governed by Federal guidlines. There are places you can report things that are not good that happen to the residents. Also you need to look at fire marshal inspections. The admission coordinators can always show you the good things. Make extra visits during the weekends, pm shifts to see what the staffing ratio is for the type of residents there are in the home. The main thing is to diligent to keep searching for a good home. They are out there, they are not any of them "perfect". Probably will never be. Hopefully nursing homes will begin to realize that the baby boomers are not going to take below standards. We are an informed group of consumers and are not afraid to stand up for those that cannot do so themselves. It is very hard. I know that in Ks there are several NF that are striving not to be one. More than 60% of people polled say they would rather die than go to a nf and those homes that can be successful at having loving compassionate quaility care if they are willing to move towards not being a nursing home.

We need people to come to the nursing homes and work because it is the right thing to do and they love making a difference in someones life.

Sorry for the long post, Please just keep searching for a good home and if you have family in one that is not doing the right things call and turn them in. People have to be accountable for what they do.

[BJean 16]

My what an harrowing indictment of our nursing home facilities and the care they provide.

I agree that we have our priorities all messed up when a pro-athlete makes more money than school teachers, nurses, firemen, policemen, etc. But the reality is, we're living in a capitalistic society. Money is the bottom line. Nursing homes are not able to be profitable if they pay for top-quality nursing care and staffing. Think about the usual sources of income for nursing homes: Medicare, Medicade and supplemental insurance.

Football players get paid what they do because the people who own football teams are making huge money. Team owners pay pro-athletes obscene sums of money to insure they have a winning team.

I'm not sure that the answer lies in protesting pro sports. It might be a start in waking us up to the problem, but beyond that, unless you create a law that says that team owners must pay into a pool of money that will be used to increase salaries of nurses, etc., I don't see how it is going to affect a change in pay scale for nurses, teachers, etc.

One of the largest problems in the U.S. with regard to medical care of all kinds is insurance companies. They are fat cats with million dollar lobbyists taking care of business in Washington. Until we get a handle on them instead of them having a strangle-hold on us, things are going to continue to be upside down in this country in the medical profession.

[bitteroldhag 0]

Well, this cheers me up. Mother went to the nursing home today for recuperation from a colon resection. Our nursing home is pretty good though I'm not sure how they treat the terminal patients since mother isn't terminal. They like to take her outside to smoke and so she knows all the smoking nurses, aides, etc. I know them too. I'm also a bitch. If I see something I don't like, I scream loud and long. Mother complained about her night nurse the last time she was in. Mother was an LPN and worked in the operating room for over 20 years. She knows what to expect and she didn't get it from this nurse so she complained. This time, if it ever quits snowing, I intend to go down there at night and check it out. My students who have worked in nursing homes say the day staff is usually good because families visit during the day, but the night staff is not good. So I will be visiting late at night to check it out. Oklahoma had some nursing home horror stories so the government has gotten busy and is checking these homes. Several have received big fines or been closed. But there is much left to do. I support any efforts at making nursing homes better places and I'd like to start with the pay. Nurses and aides deserve a whole lot more pay than they are getting. My brother is an ultra sound tech and he's highly educated, but he makes about $75,000 a year traveling around to fill in for hospitals that don't have techs. The hospital he's at right now offered him a job, but he can't make as much money if he works full time for them rather than traveling. We need to make nursing more remunerative to get more nurses and we need to pay aides well. They may not have a lot of education , but they get the dirty jobs. Also the laws are different in different states. As an LPN in Texas, my mother did the stuff an RN does. In Illinois, she could do the stuff an aide does. So she went into the OR. We have a lot of people who were destined to be nurses. They love it. Let's pay them. And while we're at it, let's pay the teachers too. Teachers teach for love, not for money, but it would be nice to make a decent living too.

[BJean 16]

I believe that many nurses do it out of love too. The problem for a very dear and wonderful friend of mine, who was an oncology nurse at the mayo Clinic in Rochester, got so burned out after a while. She was not able to do the job they hired her for with the patients because she was drawn in too many directions. Even that hospital was under-staffed and it has a sterling reputation.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

How much money would be adequate to get to know people and then have them snatched away by the jaws of death over and over?

Nursing home workers have a miserable job with miserable pay.

Our whole remuneration system is screwed up.

When I was an aircraft mechanic, I worked all the overtime I could get, sometimes doubling my yearly base, but one year, after losing a huge amount of money, my company hired the ex-CEO of All-State Insurance to be our new CEO. after 6 months of showing up about 5 hours a day, 3 days a week and with losses getting larger, they fired him, but he kept the money promised him for his three year contact and they gave him a severance package worth $3,000,000. All told, he received $7,000,000 for about 400 hours work or about $17,500 per hour.

I made a little over a $1,000,000 for my almost 35 years.

[edieparks 2]

T.O.M.

My mothers new home is listed under nursing homes in phone book. They just have policy you have to walk in (she used her cane) and not be in a chair or on a scooter for them to accept you. She is the youngest one there. 70s and 80s and 90s is the norm. Once you are there it is your home for the rest of your life . There is a infirmary if the need arises. There are two reasons they will make you move. You need medical equipment they cannot provide and if you go mental and it cannot be helped with meds. It was in the contract mom had to sign.

She really liked the idea of it being her last home . She can settle in I guess.

My only point is I just wanted to say there are maybe (?) a few good homes out there. I can tell the nurses are busy but they seem really happy and not overwhelmed . Maybe the nuns are good bosses? The nuns and priests in this area retire there too. There is a separate building for priests The nuns have there own private wing and gardens. Amen!

In my phone book there are 26 more listing for nursing homes. Makes me think about your posting.

FYI My mom says all the AWFUL crap about the priests and children is a favorite subject Catholic residents there . They know they are guilty and ashamed .

edie

Mom changed from Baptist to Catholic since she moved in May of 06.

Woe is me I am an Atheist . Hate to lie on my application if the need ever arises. Tee hee.

[BJean 16]

The fact that edie's mom's home is subsidized by the very wealthy Catholic Church is one important clue to her better care. Another is that the residents are not as old and infirm as they are many times in a regular "nursing" home. The residents in edie's mom's residental living arrangment have the ability to report problems themselves, and they have someone to lodge complaints to who has an interest in seeing that it maintains a good reputation. Also, when residents are able to do more for themselves, the staff is not so over-worked and depressed by the working conditions. The residents are also more apt to look out for each other if they notice a problem.

Nice to know that some of the residents are willing to openly talk about one of the major problems in the Catholic Church - the molestation of young boys by Catholic Priests. For someone who was involved in the Catholic Church for many years, and who gave a tidy sum to her local parish as well as sending monthly checks to Maryknoll Fathers & Brothers for over 30 years, I am pretty inflamed thinking that some of my money may have been used for hush money.

[missy4gordon 0]

2. Stop paying athletes astronomical amounts of money for playing a game. They should make a decent living, but just that, not millions! Spend the money on people who deserve to be paid better, like nurses.

3. Don't support professional athletic teams. If people wouldn't pay tons of money to attend their games, their salaries would go down.

Here here!! I couldn't agree more!! It's ridiculous how much they pay these people.

[wootsie73 0]

TOM,

I totally agree with you about the pay issue. Look at what happened to Enron here in Texas. It's a shame Ken Lay died before they could send his sorry a^& to prison! I agree that we pay top executives way to much money and the actual workers very little. I have been a nurse for 15 years now, and I've never made really good money. In fact, my first RN job was for a little over $11 per hour. As I've said before, they need to pay the people who actually do the work instead of all the big wigs who sit on their butts and do nothing. It's a sad world we live in and this particular subject makes it even worse. I wish I could do something to fix the problem, but I can't. I would agree with turning them in every time you see something wrong, but I have to add that doing that might cause your loved one to be mistreated when you weren't around. Like those black eyes from "falling".

I also agree with paying our teachers more money. What they get paid is an embarassement to this country. However, the same is true for nurses. They do all the work and the docs get all the money. Makes sense to me!

From Baptist to Catholic? I find that a difficult one to grasp, but I guess to each his own. Talk about many opposite beliefs!

~Joan~

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

TOM,

I totally agree with you about the pay issue. Look at what happened to Enron here in Texas. It's a shame Ken Lay died before they could send his sorry a^& to prison! I agree that we pay top executives way to much money and the actual workers very little. I have been a nurse for 15 years now, and I've never made really good money. In fact, my first RN job was for a little over $11 per hour. As I've said before, they need to pay the people who actually do the work instead of all the big wigs who sit on their butts and do nothing. It's a sad world we live in and this particular subject makes it even worse. I wish I could do something to fix the problem, but I can't. I would agree with turning them in every time you see something wrong, but I have to add that doing that might cause your loved one to be mistreated when you weren't around. Like those black eyes from "falling".

I also agree with paying our teachers more money. What they get paid is an embarassement to this country. However, the same is true for nurses. They do all the work and the docs get all the money. Makes sense to me!

From Baptist to Catholic? I find that a difficult one to grasp, but I guess to each his own. Talk about many opposite beliefs!

~Joan~

Yesterday, BuSh went to the stock exchange to make a speech saying that the economy is great and that he doesn't get enough credit for the great economy. Yes, the economy is great if you are a wall street banker or Corporation executive, but not for the workers.

BuSh actually complained about the disparity in pay between workers and Corporation executive and said that we (meaning the government) needs to do something about it. HOW ABOUT A GRADUATED INCOME TAX WITH MORE BRACKETS? That has worked in the past.

When I was a child in 1950's the economy was great, millionaires were being made by the barrel and the maximum tax bracket was 90%. Today the maximum tax bracket is 35%. Back then there was either 6 or 8 brackets, today there are three.

BuSh wants the Democrats in congress to raise taxes, so he can veto it and then the Republican candidates for congress in 2008 can point fingers at the "Tax and Spend Liberals". God forbid that Billionaires and people who make those obscene incomes might have to pay more and then some of that money could be used for nursing homes and raising the salaries of nurses, and maybe some for education.

[wootsie73 0]

Well,

I'm not going to disagree with you about the taxes, but I think we should have an across the board income tax. It shouldn't matter if you make $2,000,000 or $20,000 a year. I think that would help a lot. I don't believe anyone should have to pay 90%, just because they make more money. I do think they should have to pay taxes though instead of having so many loop holes that they don't have to pay at all.

Of course, you and I totally disagree politically. I'm a Republican and you are a Democrat and that is never going to change, so our beliefs on what should be done are also going to differ. However, this thread started out about nursing homes and how the patients are treated, not about President Bush. Everything that's wrong in this country is not his nor the Republican party's fault, just like it isn't all the Democratic party's fault. It's a combination of the 2.

~Joan~