HPV Vaccine

[gadgetlady 4]

What if they are raped and get HPV from the man that raped them?

That is actually something I considered, but I weighed the slim chances of that happening against the potential, currently unknown risks of the vaccine and not vaccinating won out.

[Carlene 12]

Our daughters, when they're 15 and 16, will still be homeschooled, so they will not be away from us 8-10 hours per day. They also will not be dating. So it's extremely unlikely that they'll be sexually active at that age.

Sorry, I didn't realize that your daughters would not be allowed to date. I'm assuming that rule is in effect until they reach their majority?

[gadgetlady 4]

Sorry, I didn't realize that your daughters would not be allowed to date. I'm assuming that rule is in effect until they reach their majority?

It is, but it is also a rule that we're hoping they will adopt for themselves. My husband and I believe that dating sets kids up by helping them disguise who they really are, causing them to "fall in love" with a person who's just showing their best side. We are working on helping them understand this philosophy throughout their growing years so that they don't marry someone they don't really know.

[Carlene 12]

It is, but it is also a rule that we're hoping they will adopt for themselves. My husband and I believe that dating sets kids up by helping them disguise who they really are, causing them to "fall in love" with a person who's just showing their best side. We are working on helping them understand this philosophy throughout their growing years so that they don't marry someone they don't really know.

If they don't date and they don't go to school, how/where are they going to meet prospective husbands? If they go away to college (I am presuming here that that will be permitted), they will suffer some major culture shock.

[mrspruett 0]

I have to agree with GadgetLady here. Some young people actually choose to abstain until marriage for moral reasons. It is entirely possible and maybe even probable that her girls will due to their upbringing.There are still some kids who actually try to do what is right regardless of peer pressure.

[anonemouse 1]

Well, crud. I had a reply typed out and apparently closed the page without posting it. Here goes again.

It is, but it is also a rule that we're hoping they will adopt for themselves. My husband and I believe that dating sets kids up by helping them disguise who they really are, causing them to "fall in love" with a person who's just showing their best side. We are working on helping them understand this philosophy throughout their growing years so that they don't marry someone they don't really know.

How do you expect your children to find future mates, if they can't date?

I can understand the belief that most people don't really know the person they are dating, which is why I am a definite believer in living with your partner before marriage. I posted about my former roommate in the "Sex before marriage?" thread, but I'll talk about her again. She dated the man she married for 4 years before they got engaged and married. They separated after 6 months, and were divorced the day before their first anniversary. To many people, 4 years is a long time to date a person. In fact, most couples would have been married long before that time, IMO. I fully believe that they would have either never married or worked out the kinks in their relationship if they had been able to live together before they got married.

ETA: I believe that, on some levels, teaching our kids to abstain before marriage may actually be part of our higher divorce rates. They don't know the difference between lust and love, and I think that, in many cases, they mistake the two and enter into a marriage that should never have happened.

[gadgetlady 4]

If they don't date and they don't go to school, how/where are they going to meet prospective husbands? If they go away to college (I am presuming here that that will be permitted), they will suffer some major culture shock.

I am well aware of the potential for culture shock. We're working to equip them for that. But that may be limited by the college they choose to attend. They are and will be well aware that people live different lives than they do. Just because they're surrounded by a hedonistic world doesn't mean they have to participate -- not everyone does.

I met my husband in church. I think that's a great place!

[Penni60 45]

Gadgetlady has expressed her values she is instilling in her children. I for one applaud her open relationship with her children. You don't have to make remarks that she is deluding herself they will abstain. I think she already understands she can only guide her children and hope some of the values stick. In the end all we as parents can do is teach them the values and morals and send them out into the world to make their own choices.

Let's remember how difficult it is to raise kids these days and stop with the harsh remarks. We should be supporting each other.

[gadgetlady 4]

How do you expect your children to find future mates, if they can't date?

On the first "date" that my husband and I had (we already knew each other socially through church events), we sat down and said, in effect, I don't want to be here if this is not leading to marriage. I don't want to give my heart to someone if it's not the person I spend the rest of my life with. We had a series of very serious discussions about our pasts, our futures, and our view of life. 3 days later we were engaged. Fewer than 6 months later we were married. Everyone we know, including friends of ours who are in the process of getting divorced, marvels at how good our marriage is.

A good marriage has a lot to do with common goals, common beliefs, and meshing personalities. It does NOT have a lot to do with how well you sit together in a movie theater or whether you wore your best dress or put on your best face for the time you were dating.

I can understand the belief that most people don't really know the person they are dating, which is why I am a definite believer in living with your partner before marriage. I posted about my former roommate in the "Sex before marriage?" thread, but I'll talk about her again. She dated the man she married for 4 years before they got engaged and married. They separated after 6 months, and were divorced the day before their first anniversary. To many people, 4 years is a long time to date a person. In fact, most couples would have been married long before that time, IMO. I fully believe that they would have either never married or worked out the kinks in their relationship if they had been able to live together before they got married.

ETA: I believe that, on some levels, teaching our kids to abstain before marriage may actually be part of our higher divorce rates. They don't know the difference between lust and love, and I think that, in many cases, they mistake the two and enter into a marriage that should never have happened.

Wait, what????? You think our divorce rates are higher because "kids these days" abstain? ROFLOL!!!!! The reverse of that would mean that decades ago (like 50+ years -- certainly before the '60's), when kids were actually more likely to abstain, divorce rates would have been higher than they are now -- NOT!

I personally believe in short engagements. Settling into a dating relationship for 4 years has the potential to condition you to a certain MO, which most definitely changes when you are married. But settling into cyclical dating relationships also conditions you to a mindset of "spend time together - fall in love - commit - fall out of love - break up", which is most definitely not conducive to long-term marriage. Too many people think that marriage is about "feeling" in love, and if you don't "feel" in love any more, you're justified in getting a divorce. Love is a decision, and it's something you work to regain when you don't "feel" it anymore. Cyclical dating focuses on the "feeling" of love rather than the reality of what love is, at least the kind of love that keeps you married for 50+ years.

Besides, why get married if you're living together?

I also believe, for a variety of reasons that I don't have the energy to get into right now, that sex and living together before marriage have the strong potential to taint the sexual relationship throughout the marriage. Maybe I'll have the energy to go into this later :confused:

[gadgetlady 4]

Gadgetlady has expressed her values she is instilling in her children. I for one applaud her open relationship with her children. You don't have to make remarks that she is deluding herself they will abstain. I think she already understands she can only guide her children and hope some of the values stick. In the end all we as parents can do is teach them the values and morals and send them out into the world to make their own choices.

Let's remember how difficult it is to raise kids these days and stop with the harsh remarks. We should be supporting each other.

Wow. Thanks, Penni. You brought tears to my eyes. I do get tired of defending and explaining myself sometimes, but then I realize that my way of doing things is foreign to some people and I might be the only one they ever know that can explain my way of thinking to them.

[anonemouse 1]

Wait, what????? You think our divorce rates are higher because "kids these days" abstain? ROFLOL!!!!! The reverse of that would mean that decades ago (like 50+ years -- certainly before the '60's), when kids were actually more likely to abstain, divorce rates would have been higher than they are now -- NOT!

The difference between now and then is that divorce is much more socially acceptable than it was years ago. I bet there were a lot of marriages that would have broken up 50+ years ago, if divorce hadn't been taboo. My reasoning behind the statement you responded to was this: In many cases, young people who were taught to abstain before marriage marry young. We all know the statistics on marriages between two very young people. In most cases, it is very unlikely that they will last. I think young people see someone they like, someone they lust after, someone that makes them blush, and they think, "This MUST be love!", so they get married. Once the first blush wears off and they realize that they really don't like the person they have shackled themselves to, they get divorced.

[gadgetlady 4]

The difference between now and then is that divorce is much more socially acceptable than it was years ago. I bet there were a lot of marriages that would have broken up 50+ years ago, if divorce hadn't been taboo. My reasoning behind the statement you responded to was this: In many cases, young people who were taught to abstain before marriage marry young. We all know the statistics on marriages between two very young people. In most cases, it is very unlikely that they will last. I think young people see someone they like, someone they lust after, someone that makes them blush, and they think, "This MUST be love!", so they get married. Once the first blush wears off and they realize that they really don't like the person they have shackled themselves to, they get divorced.

Which is why I'm teaching my children not to get their hearts and their bodies engaged before their brains. I regularly go over with them, even at their current ages, what are important qualities in a husband. You can develop sexual feelings for pretty much anyone, given the right circumstances. You can even develop sexual feelings for someone you're NOT married to when you ARE married, so I think by teaching them that "feelings" don't trump logic and good judgment, I'm not only teaching them to find GOOD mates, but also to stay with them.

For those of you who are married but had "better sex" with someone other than your spouse, imagine how you would feel if you didn't have someone to compare your spouse to? If you never had to think, "Well, Joe sure did that a lot better than my husband does." Wouldn't that be an awesome feeling? If sex weren't just about "how good" it is, but about how it connects you with your spouse, spirtually, emotionally, and physically, about how it's a reflection of your entire relationship?

[anonemouse 1]

You can even develop sexual feelings for someone you're NOT married to when you ARE married, so I think by teaching them that "feelings" don't trump logic and good judgment, I'm not only teaching them to find GOOD mates, but also to stay with them.

That's definitely true. But I do think that "feelings" are an important part of a marriage, and I think that feelings, logic, and good judgement should be treated equally. If I was uncomfortable being around a person and was totally unattracted to him, I don't think I could marry him. If you can't be yourself with the person you are marrying, you shouldn't be marrying them, even if it is otherwise a good match. Likewise, even if you are wildly attracted to the hot drug dealer down on the street corner, he wouldn't be a good mate. If you don't like the person you are marrying, you shouldn't get married because you are going to make life miserable for yourself, your mate, and probably your future children.

[Carlene 12]

I met my husband in church. I think that's a great place!

You're right! I met my husband in a church singles group for over 40 people!

[coltonwade 27]

Because we homeschool, our kids aren't participants in these types of conversations, so they do have a better chance. They know (or at least the older one does) that these conversations exist, because WE have them with her -- absent the giggling, the teasing, and the lack of knowledge that occurs when children talk about them.

When I was in high school, 25 years ago, I was one of the only virgins -- so things haven't changed that much. I think sometimes we don't give kids enough credit -- you say you wish you and your sister had abstained, but from what you've said it seems you're not teaching your son to abstain either (I could be wrong about this, but it seems that's what you're saying). If our parents don't believe we can abstain, they're certainly not empowering us to do so.

I'm not saying I expect it to be easy for kids not to have sex. I am saying it's possible, and we are giving our daughters as many tools as there are in the arsenal for them to make good choices.

Do you REALLY think that because you homeschool your kids that they are NOT going to have conversations about sex, drugs ect with their friends ? I know A LOT Of people who home school their children of all ages , those conversations DO take place. you are wrong , I DO teach my son to abstaine HOW EVER unlike my parents , I teach my son how to protect himself IF he chooses to have sex. NOT doing so is irresponsible in my opinon. I belive anyone can do anything they want to do . But im also realistic. I find people who live in a false sense of security are the one's most likely to be the ones that are set up for the most dissapointment .

Mindy