Advice for an oblivious girl!

[BrwnEydGrl82 0]

Ok so this is going to sound either mean or wierd. My best friend (Nadine's) good friend (Danielle) is a nice girl, she means well. However she has no idea how to interact with other females. She has only had a couple of female friends in her life and she is 25. My friend suggested that we put together a sort of a manual for her (and she wants us to). A manual that will outline the do's and dont's of being a good friend. Kind of a what to do and a what not to do. She is very inappropriate and she does not think before she speaks.

ex. of her behavior- One night we were out at a club with Nadine and Danielle's coworkers. ANother good friend of ours, Mindy was out. When Mindy gets drunk she does inappropriate things with guys she barely knows. We all know this but this does not need to be verbalized with everyone- especially Nadine and Mindy's coworkers (nadine and danielle became friends in college - they now work together in a corporate setting. Mindy was talking to Danielle and Nadine's coworker when Danielle came up and advised the guys Mindy was talking too to be careful because Mindy gets drunk and likes to sleep with guys she doesn't know.

another ex. Nadine and Danielle are both somewhat heavy. Nadine carries her weight well - and has curves, however Danielle does not- Danielles weight is in her midsection and neck. Nadine was upset about her weight and was trying to find an outfit to wear when Danielle made a comment about Nadine being heavy and that she was insulted because somebody said that they had the same figure. She actually said this to Nadine. Meanwhile Danielle looks heavier than Nadine because of the way she carries her weight.

In additional Danielle does not know when to leave things alone, when and where to approach sore subjects. Danielle does not think before she speaks. Danielle has had a couple of pathetic realtionships with pathetic guys and she attempts to dish out advice. She is in competetion with Nadine with everything- she always wants to have one up. If Danielle buys an article of clothing, it is only because Nadine already purchased it.

Danielle means well- she is not ill spirited she is just oblivious.

Does anybody have any advice for this little manual.

[Nathalie 4]

Sounds like you're giving Danielle a little too much credit. She doesn't sound like a "friend" to me. Instead of trying to rehabilitate her, I'd dump her and find other people to hang out with. Of course, I don't suffer fools gladly.

Just my two cents.

[conniesueb 1]

Wow, that's a tough one. Maybe just sit her down and tell her that you are only trying to help her, and explain to her that when she says these inappropriate things, that she is insulting people, and that it makes people not want to hang out with her. If she truly is oblivious, she may actually welcome the advice. Explain to her that you want to continue to hang out with her, but if she continues the behavior she is going to lsoe the few friends that she has. One of two things will happen--either she will take your advice to heart, and really try and change, or she will be pissed, and not want anything to do with you anymore. If it is the second, then maybe your problem will be solved. Good luck.

[bitteroldhag 0]

Your friend may have Asperger's syndrome which is a defect where a person simply can't understand social signals and screws up all the time. I had a student with this who was dating a student with the same thing. The other students said it was a scream to hear them talk because they didn't pull punches verbally. This malady is more common that once thought so you might see if your friend simply has no idea how to interact socially. If not, she may be a victim of Asperger's and you just have to cut her a lot of slack.

[b_russell 0]

Your friend may have Asperger's syndrome which is a defect where a person simply can't understand social signals and screws up all the time. I had a student with this who was dating a student with the same thing. The other students said it was a scream to hear them talk because they didn't pull punches verbally. This malady is more common that once thought so you might see if your friend simply has no idea how to interact socially. If not, she may be a victim of Asperger's and you just have to cut her a lot of slack.

Asperger's is what came to mind when I was reading too... I've worked with kids with AS quite a bit, and what I have always noticed is these individuals can have zero social or self awareness... In addition to not picking up on the social cues that we all take for granted in our relationships with others, they have no conception of how their actions directly affect the manner in which their peers interact with them. Usually, in my experience, young people with AS respond well to simple and direct feedback on specific instances of problematic behavior combined with strategies for how to better handle similar situations in the future.

I think that the "manual" is a good idea! My only suggestion would be to make sure that Danielle(?) is given lots of examples of the suggested behaviors in action.

Whether or not Danielle actually would be considered to have AS, I don't know... But I don't anyone who doesn't benefit to some degree from constructive feedback from their friends.

Good Luck!

[piercedqt78 658]

My daughter has a mild case of AS, and she talks to strangers, tells anyone personal things, and I mean anyone. She once told the cashier at the grocery store that I had weightloss surgery and need to have my stomach lifted. Talking to her about it doesn't help and probably never will. She sees a counselor and gets some OT at school but it's not making a huge difference. There are several websites that have more information about AS with signs and symptoms, maybe checking out those sites would help guide you in the best path to help her. I know that things need to be presented a certain way for my daughter to grasp it. ~Mandy

[BrwnEydGrl82 0]

Thank you everyone. Today there was a new incident today. I broke up with my boyfriend of 5 years ago 2 and a half years ago. Nadine broke up with her boyfriend of 5 years 2 years ago. I have had an on and off again relationship with somebody for nearly 2 years. Nadine was seeing somebody for a year. Danielle was engaged to a loser, she was with him for 2 and a half years, they moved in together after 2 weeks. He proposed with a $200 gemstone ring- by saying he had a bulge in his pocket for her. She just broke up with him 3 weeks ago. This guy was a thirty something year old virign (before her) who never had a relationship and who was into his figurines and sci-fiction more than her. She endied up leaving him. She told Nadine today that she is going to take our positive traits and become a better version of us. She is going to work out our flaws and use them to improve herself. In addition to this it won't be hard for her to find love because she doesn't date assholes like we do. Keep in mind before her "engagement" she had one few month relationship in high school, and she dated an illegal immigrant for a couple of months in college-there was a huge communication barrier. Yet she is the expert on relationships? And she is going to be better than us? This is pretty difficult considering how great Nadine and myself are. But who says this stuff.

Another incident-A couple of weeks ago Nadine Danielle Jessica and myself went for dinner. Nadine slipped up about my surgery to Danielle. Jessica had no idea. During dinner she began asking questions about my surgery and when I was going to go for a fill. Nadine nipped that in the butt because she knew I was getting pissed. But Danielle knew that I was pissed Nadine slipped up about my surgery, she also knew that I didn't want anybody to know.

Thank you all for listening to me as I vent. Im just perpleaxed.

[BrwnEydGrl82 0]

note: the names of all individuals have been changed

[Carlene 12]

It's much more likely that Danielle simply lacks tact. Unfortunately, learning tactfulness takes time, maturity, and practice. Writing a Tact For Dummies handbook probably won't help. Life experiences, such as losing friends, the goodwill of co-workers, and sometimes even a job, are usually what it takes before a tactless person wakes up and embarks on a course of self-improvement. They are immature, self-centered individuals who crave attention. Unless you and Nadine are into saving people from themselves, I would avoid Danielle's company as much as possible. And for heaven's sake, don't trust her with any information you wouldn't want posted on MySpace.

[Marimaru 7]

I don't know about AS, but it occurred to me also that she just doesn't care much about privacy or tact. I've known people who were like that, and I didn't hang around them long enough to call them my friend.

I think that the manual is a sweet idea, but I also think that if she really wanted help, she would start listening to your advice before you actually wrote a book for her. To try and see if she really wants help, or if she's just trying to get you to hang around a little longer, start pointing out when she's doing those things. Right when they happen, don't bring it up later, point it out right away. If she really wants to change, she'll get the hang of it.

I think there is a BIG difference between being oblivious, and choosing to not care about whether you are a good person.

[kyethra 0]

Your friend may have Asperger's syndrome which is a defect where a person simply can't understand social signals and screws up all the time. I had a student with this who was dating a student with the same thing. The other students said it was a scream to hear them talk because they didn't pull punches verbally. This malady is more common that once thought so you might see if your friend simply has no idea how to interact socially. If not, she may be a victim of Asperger's and you just have to cut her a lot of slack.

I was thinking the same thing. You see I'm on the Autism Spectrum myself. I have something very similar to Aspergers (and I suspect I likely have Aspergers as well, but I don't feel like pursuing a diagnosis yet). There are also other issue/conditions that affect how well one does socially. With something like Aspergers the person is at a big disadvantage because he or she has a lot of trouble reading nonverbal communication. This includes things like body language, tone of voice, facial expression, hints, implied meanings, etc. People with Aspergers, or AS, tend to take things litterally, at face value. Unfortunately up to 2/3 of communication is nonverbal and if we miss that we miss a lot. And we don't even know we are missing it. Looks, hints, sublities, tone of voice, I miss much of it. I was embarassingly old before I learned that tone of voice even existed and you can imagine how flabbergasted I was to learn that I was somehow supposed to glean information from it... I never understood why people couldn't just tell me what they wanted me to know. If they were angry, tell me. And then tell me why, etc.

I also have difficulty in social situations and a lot of trouble understanding certain social things. It can be really difficult to try and remember to censor myself all the time especially when I don't understand why certain topics could possibly be offensive or inappropriate. And I don't understand why we have to do small talk-- it seems like its a lot of trouble and generally boring. Why can't people just start talking about, say, global warming without all the small talk stuff? And then there is this whole thing about lying to people when the lies are supposed to be white lies but they aren't white lies like if someone has an ugly dress on and then no one tells them or worse tells them it looks nice when they ask and I think that is just wrong, but apparently if it is your boss you have to lie or something because of this wierd dynamic long term thing. I don't get it. Its amazingly confusing. I feel like I am studying this strange culture from an observers standpoint sometimes. Manuals and instructions do help. My husband and good friends help me with certain situations by reminding me what I'm not allowed to bring up. The other day I was with a good friend of mine and I was in a group setting and everyone was eating and then we got on the subject on hamburger and how it is ground and farmers, etc who grind their own. I felt this would be a perfect opertunity to bring up cannabalism since the last tribe that practiced cannibalism stopped because of mad cow spreading amongst them due to eating nervous system tissue. Naturally this relates to hamburgers and eating. And I certainly find cannibalism fascinating-- I think a lot of people do. But when I asked my friend if it would be apropriate to bring it up (people always tell me not now so I try to ask first) she said no and that it was basically one of those subjects that was almost never apropriate! How odd! I mean I sort of get why I'm not supposed to talk about during communion- though I do think that is within context-- but why never? How could people possibly be sensitive about cannibalism or offended by it? I highly doubt they or their parents were practicing, so again it seems like this arbitrary thing...

There are a only a couple of things out there for adults. There is a DVD, mind reading that helps one learn to reading facial expressions. Temple Grandin co wrote a book recently about the hidden rules of social stuff that is supposed to be good.

[green 6]

I've read about Temple Grandin and found her to be fascinating. She developed a method by which cattle can be slaughtered more humanely and she has Asperger's. The article I read about her was written by Oliver Sachs and was published in The New Yorker some years ago.

It is worth mentioning here that Oliver Sachs has written quite a lot about Asperger's and other neurological differences found in people. His method is to spend time with individuals who are different and then profile them. He is a neurologist himself as well as a wonderful writer.

I also find your post fascinating, kyethra, for your situation is so unlike my own and, for that matter, most of our species. I can certainly understand why you must feel like a cultural anthropologist most of the time. I also found your story about the correct time to discuss cannibalism interesting; I, too, was kinda interested in the subject and the neurological disease which afflicted that particular tribe.

And now I really want to read the book which Temple Grandin co-authored.

[green 6]

Thank you everyone. Today there was a new incident today. I broke up with my boyfriend of 5 years ago 2 and a half years ago. Nadine broke up with her boyfriend of 5 years 2 years ago. I have had an on and off again relationship with somebody for nearly 2 years. Nadine was seeing somebody for a year. Danielle was engaged to a loser, she was with him for 2 and a half years, they moved in together after 2 weeks. He proposed with a $200 gemstone ring- by saying he had a bulge in his pocket for her. She just broke up with him 3 weeks ago. This guy was a thirty something year old virign (before her) who never had a relationship and who was into his figurines and sci-fiction more than her. She endied up leaving him. She told Nadine today that she is going to take our positive traits and become a better version of us. She is going to work out our flaws and use them to improve herself. In addition to this it won't be hard for her to find love because she doesn't date assholes like we do. Keep in mind before her "engagement" she had one few month relationship in high school, and she dated an illegal immigrant for a couple of months in college-there was a huge communication barrier. Yet she is the expert on relationships? And she is going to be better than us? This is pretty difficult considering how great Nadine and myself are. But who says this stuff.

Another incident-A couple of weeks ago Nadine Danielle Jessica and myself went for dinner. Nadine slipped up about my surgery to Danielle. Jessica had no idea. During dinner she began asking questions about my surgery and when I was going to go for a fill. Nadine nipped that in the butt because she knew I was getting pissed. But Danielle knew that I was pissed Nadine slipped up about my surgery, she also knew that I didn't want anybody to know.

Thank you all for listening to me as I vent. Im just perpleaxed.

Whether Danielle has Asberger's or not is one issue. An entirely separate one is this: what do you get out of seeing this girl? It doesn't sound like much. She sounds altogether irritating. Maybe it is time to move on.