Thinking of increasing caloroes. Good idea? Bad idea?

[gamergirl 4,610]

I should also point out that before surgery' date=' I was averaging between 3000-5000 calories a day, and wasn't gaining or losing weight at that amount. So for me, even 1200 is a profound reduction and I figure if it takes me 3000 to maintain (at my previously higher weight,) 1200 is probably still low enough to lose. I've found the post-bariatric diet to induce ketogenesis fairly constantly. I've confirmed it with those Keto-sticks you can get at the pharmacy. Given the way the reagent strips react, I figure my body must certainly be breaking down fatty-acids for fuel. Maybe you get some of those and see if you are in a ketogenic state.[/quote']

My understanding is that the ketostix work at the beginning of low carb diets but later, different things are released and the stix don't pick up on them. Suffice it to say, my breath is a clue that I'm shedding ketones!

[gamergirl 4,610]

Give it a try and see how you do. I know by my 3 month appointment my NUT upped my calories to 1000. I am over 6 months out now and still rarely get to 1000. Thats not saying I am not hungry though. Because I do get hunger I just try my damnest to ignore the big meanie Good luck to you! You sound like you're doing great and I love your recipes. I haven't tried any yet' date=' but I hope to soon![/quote']

That's encouraging to hear!

[gamergirl 4,610]

Give it a try and see how you do. I know by my 3 month appointment my NUT upped my calories to 1000. I am over 6 months out now and still rarely get to 1000. Thats not saying I am not hungry though. Because I do get hunger I just try my damnest to ignore the big meanie Good luck to you! You sound like you're doing great and I love your recipes. I haven't tried any yet' date=' but I hope to soon![/quote']

That's encouraging to hear!

[gamergirl 4,610]

My 27 day stall broke when I added calories. I was averaging 500-650 a day (with an 850 calorie limit) and now I am eating 650-900 with a 1000 cal limit. I've lost 6 pounds this week breaking my stall.

This is what I'm hoping will happen to me. I think if I just trust my body and eat when I'm really hungry, this should resolve. Fingers crossed.

[gamergirl 4,610]

My 27 day stall broke when I added calories. I was averaging 500-650 a day (with an 850 calorie limit) and now I am eating 650-900 with a 1000 cal limit. I've lost 6 pounds this week breaking my stall.

This is what I'm hoping will happen to me. I think if I just trust my body and eat when I'm really hungry, this should resolve. Fingers crossed.

[gamergirl 4,610]

I've never been able to tell the difference' date=' but wanted to be able to. What does head hunger feel like vs. "real hunger." I'm not sure if I experience both or if I mistakenly perceive it all as real hunger when it's not.[/quote']

For me the difference is marked. Real hunger equals light headed, crankiness, confusion and can't think straight. It's when I will eat dry, tasteless Protein just to fuel myself. I just need to eat now, no questions asked. Usually 3-4 hours after last meal/snack.

If I catch myself asking myself if I'm hungry, I'm not. If I wonder what will taste good, then I'm not hungry. If I feel hungry within 2 hours of eating, it's head hunger.

[gamergirl 4,610]

I've never been able to tell the difference' date=' but wanted to be able to. What does head hunger feel like vs. "real hunger." I'm not sure if I experience both or if I mistakenly perceive it all as real hunger when it's not.[/quote']

For me the difference is marked. Real hunger equals light headed, crankiness, confusion and can't think straight. It's when I will eat dry, tasteless Protein just to fuel myself. I just need to eat now, no questions asked. Usually 3-4 hours after last meal/snack.

If I catch myself asking myself if I'm hungry, I'm not. If I wonder what will taste good, then I'm not hungry. If I feel hungry within 2 hours of eating, it's head hunger.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

Long term severe reduction of calories will kill your metabolism. No way around it. The body will adapt to whatever is required to maintain homeostasis. If you eat 500 calories all the time for the remainder of your life, your body will reward you with burning fewer calories and down regulating the efficiency of your metabolism. Homeostasis for your body will become 500 calories a day and this is not enough long term.

For the masses, this is packaged up nicely as"starvation mode." Everything needs a nice label right so it is easier to discuss, no?

In reality, your body is the most complex system ever conceived that is constantly balancing itself through complex anatomy of interactions controlled by hormonal communications. Calories in versus calories out is the most basic way to think about reduction of body fat, but oversimplification is prone to fallacy when trying to precisely control desired outcome. Considering the hormonal responses in the body, you really need to be thinking about the impact of nutrition and supplementation on hormonal communication, a very deep dissertation not to be taken lightly. Understanding and addressing the hormonal imbalances in the body through delicate attention to nutrition is going to be 90% of the effort in eliminating stored fat. Also important is to reduce the overall inflammation in the body by eating foods that increase the pH levels (eg reduce acidic levels) at the cellular level.

Fortunately, the initial post op diet of high Protein and low carb has much of these characteristics built in. It is important to determine an approach to balanced eating after the initial post op diet to create the ideal metabolic response. Might I suggest researching topics that simplify control of the hormonal responses like eating low glycemic foods, intermediate fasting (5:2 diet is a form of IF) and eating glutton free foods. For me, a paleo diet has created an ideal metabolic response in the body after the initial 6 months.

As for a plan to increase daily caloric load to minimize entering into "starvation mode, " you might consider:

Month 1: 300-500

Month 2-3: 400-700

Month 4-6: 600-900

Month 7-8: 900-1100

Month 9-12: 1200-1600

Post 12 months: 2000

Slowly increase calories over the months to reset homeostasis in the body every couple months to a higher daily caloric load. You want the body to get used to eating 1600-2000 calories a day long term where you are neither gaining or losing weight. This assumes a standard amount of physical activity. The calories may need to be higher to fuel more intense physical activities. All in all, remember that nutrition is going to have a far greater impact on body composition then physical activity.

These are just my thoughts on the subject.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

Long term severe reduction of calories will kill your metabolism. No way around it. The body will adapt to whatever is required to maintain homeostasis. If you eat 500 calories all the time for the remainder of your life, your body will reward you with burning fewer calories and down regulating the efficiency of your metabolism. Homeostasis for your body will become 500 calories a day and this is not enough long term.

For the masses, this is packaged up nicely as"starvation mode." Everything needs a nice label right so it is easier to discuss, no?

In reality, your body is the most complex system ever conceived that is constantly balancing itself through complex anatomy of interactions controlled by hormonal communications. Calories in versus calories out is the most basic way to think about reduction of body fat, but oversimplification is prone to fallacy when trying to precisely control desired outcome. Considering the hormonal responses in the body, you really need to be thinking about the impact of nutrition and supplementation on hormonal communication, a very deep dissertation not to be taken lightly. Understanding and addressing the hormonal imbalances in the body through delicate attention to nutrition is going to be 90% of the effort in eliminating stored fat. Also important is to reduce the overall inflammation in the body by eating foods that increase the pH levels (eg reduce acidic levels) at the cellular level.

Fortunately, the initial post op diet of high Protein and low carb has much of these characteristics built in. It is important to determine an approach to balanced eating after the initial post op diet to create the ideal metabolic response. Might I suggest researching topics that simplify control of the hormonal responses like eating low glycemic foods, intermediate fasting (5:2 diet is a form of IF) and eating glutton free foods. For me, a paleo diet has created an ideal metabolic response in the body after the initial 6 months.

As for a plan to increase daily caloric load to minimize entering into "starvation mode, " you might consider:

Month 1: 300-500

Month 2-3: 400-700

Month 4-6: 600-900

Month 7-8: 900-1100

Month 9-12: 1200-1600

Post 12 months: 2000

Slowly increase calories over the months to reset homeostasis in the body every couple months to a higher daily caloric load. You want the body to get used to eating 1600-2000 calories a day long term where you are neither gaining or losing weight. This assumes a standard amount of physical activity. The calories may need to be higher to fuel more intense physical activities. All in all, remember that nutrition is going to have a far greater impact on body composition then physical activity.

These are just my thoughts on the subject.

[gamergirl 4,610]

Long term severe reduction of calories will kill your metabolism. No way around it. The body will adapt to whatever is required to maintain homeostasis. If you eat 500 calories all the time for the remainder of your life' date=' your body will reward you with burning fewer calories and down regulating the efficiency of your metabolism. For the masses, this is packaged up nicely as"starvation mode." Everything needs a nice label right so it is easier to discuss, no? In reality, your body is the most complex system ever conceived that is constantly balancing itself through complex anatomy of interactions controlled by hormonal communications. Calories in versus calories out is the most basic way to think about reduction of body fat, but oversimplification is prone to fallacy when trying to precisely control desired outcome. Considering the hormonal responses in the body, you really need to be thinking about the impact of nutrition and supplementation on hormonal communication, a very deep dissertation not to be taken lightly. Understanding and addressing the hormonal imbalances in the body through delicate attention to nutrition is going to be 90% of the effort in eliminating stored fat. Also important is to reduce the overall inflammation in the body by eating foods that increase the pH levels (eg reduce acidic levels) at the cellular level. However, to the benefit of the less scientific folks, there are some easy ways to encapsulate this knowledge in abstractions that can be more readily understood. Might I suggest researching topics that simplify control of the hormonal responses like eating low glycemic foods, intermediate fasting (5:2 diet is a form of IF) and eating glutton free foods. As for a plan to increase daily caloric load to minimize entering into "starvation mode, " you might consider: Month 1: 300-500 Month 2-3: 400-700 Month 4-6: 600-900 Month 7-8: 900-1100 Month 9-12: 1200-1600 Post 12 months: 2000 Slowly increase calories over the months to reset homeostasis in the body every couple months to a higher daily caloric load. You want the body to get used to eating 1600-2000 calories a day long term where you are neither gaining or losing weight. This assumes a standard amount of physical activity. The calories may need to be higher to fuel more intense physical activities. All in all, remember that nutrition is going to have a far greater impact on body composition then physical activity. These are just my thoughts on the subject.[/quote']

Fiddle this is hugely helpful, esp the calorie increase intervals. I have never been able to eat 2000 cals without gaining weight but this is my chance to not just lose weight but also re-set my body, my eating, and my health.

I agree, calorie math is a vast oversimplification. I eat very low GI foods, no gluten, and I "fast" at least 12 hours at night. It's not 5:2, it's not 16 hours which is where I want to get but it's better than eating late at night. Right now, I can't eat enough to go 16 hours.

[gamergirl 4,610]

Long term severe reduction of calories will kill your metabolism. No way around it. The body will adapt to whatever is required to maintain homeostasis. If you eat 500 calories all the time for the remainder of your life' date=' your body will reward you with burning fewer calories and down regulating the efficiency of your metabolism. For the masses, this is packaged up nicely as"starvation mode." Everything needs a nice label right so it is easier to discuss, no? In reality, your body is the most complex system ever conceived that is constantly balancing itself through complex anatomy of interactions controlled by hormonal communications. Calories in versus calories out is the most basic way to think about reduction of body fat, but oversimplification is prone to fallacy when trying to precisely control desired outcome. Considering the hormonal responses in the body, you really need to be thinking about the impact of nutrition and supplementation on hormonal communication, a very deep dissertation not to be taken lightly. Understanding and addressing the hormonal imbalances in the body through delicate attention to nutrition is going to be 90% of the effort in eliminating stored fat. Also important is to reduce the overall inflammation in the body by eating foods that increase the pH levels (eg reduce acidic levels) at the cellular level. However, to the benefit of the less scientific folks, there are some easy ways to encapsulate this knowledge in abstractions that can be more readily understood. Might I suggest researching topics that simplify control of the hormonal responses like eating low glycemic foods, intermediate fasting (5:2 diet is a form of IF) and eating glutton free foods. As for a plan to increase daily caloric load to minimize entering into "starvation mode, " you might consider: Month 1: 300-500 Month 2-3: 400-700 Month 4-6: 600-900 Month 7-8: 900-1100 Month 9-12: 1200-1600 Post 12 months: 2000 Slowly increase calories over the months to reset homeostasis in the body every couple months to a higher daily caloric load. You want the body to get used to eating 1600-2000 calories a day long term where you are neither gaining or losing weight. This assumes a standard amount of physical activity. The calories may need to be higher to fuel more intense physical activities. All in all, remember that nutrition is going to have a far greater impact on body composition then physical activity. These are just my thoughts on the subject.[/quote']

Fiddle this is hugely helpful, esp the calorie increase intervals. I have never been able to eat 2000 cals without gaining weight but this is my chance to not just lose weight but also re-set my body, my eating, and my health.

I agree, calorie math is a vast oversimplification. I eat very low GI foods, no gluten, and I "fast" at least 12 hours at night. It's not 5:2, it's not 16 hours which is where I want to get but it's better than eating late at night. Right now, I can't eat enough to go 16 hours.

[gamergirl 4,610]

I think (for what it's worth since I'm no expert!) it's ok to add more calories. I'm reading a book right now that has convinced me that a) starvation mode does exist' date=' and weight loss isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. It's by Gary Taubes, and it's a summary of research on obesity done with humans and animals all the way back to the 1700's. I'm loving the book and finding it fascinating, but the bottom line it seems is that eating carbs causes us to gain weight because of the insulin response. So, given the fact that you're already keeping your carbs low AND healthy, I think you're probably ok to go up 100 calories. Others will say that we need to keep our calories in that ultra low range, but for me, I'm just not convinced it's something we can maintain long term. Especially if you're in a stall! Sheesh, how can you stall with only eating that many calories? It may be starvation mode. Mind you, I think stalls once in awhile for a week or two are normal--the body is programmed to hold onto weight, and is going to fight us every step of the way. But if it's longer than a week or two, that doesn't sound right! Now to contradict myself... One thing that happened to me a few weeks ago when I started increasing my calories is that it triggered some head hunger in me. Seeing the numbers go up on My Fitness Pal caused emotional upheaval that I wasn't ready for--guilt, anxiety, shame, cravings, etc. But that's me, and I'm the first to admit that I am really messed up when it comes to food. So this may not happen to you, or anyone else, but it was something that I had to deal with and am still trying to fight. I wish I'd stayed in the "safe" post-op zone, when I didn't have to make decisions and deal with my demons. I'm so much better at following strict rules and restrictive dieting than I am at moderation! But again, that's just me--because I'm messed up. I think for a "normal" person, it's perfectly fine to increase your calories to a comfortable level, provided you're still meeting your protein/carbs/etc guidelines. Good luck, whatever you decide!! [/quote']

Well we may be crazy but we are not alone on this forum I too have the same fears you do. Why else would I post asking if 800 calories is too much?? It's all about anxiety and control, shame, guilt and fear. Thanks for sharing that. It made me feel less alone.

I'm leaving for a 4-day biz trip. I plan to eat 2-3 oz of Protein whenever I'm hungry and let's see what happens. I will log faithfully as I do, and will try to let go of the fear.

[gamergirl 4,610]

I think (for what it's worth since I'm no expert!) it's ok to add more calories. I'm reading a book right now that has convinced me that a) starvation mode does exist' date=' and weight loss isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. It's by Gary Taubes, and it's a summary of research on obesity done with humans and animals all the way back to the 1700's. I'm loving the book and finding it fascinating, but the bottom line it seems is that eating carbs causes us to gain weight because of the insulin response. So, given the fact that you're already keeping your carbs low AND healthy, I think you're probably ok to go up 100 calories. Others will say that we need to keep our calories in that ultra low range, but for me, I'm just not convinced it's something we can maintain long term. Especially if you're in a stall! Sheesh, how can you stall with only eating that many calories? It may be starvation mode. Mind you, I think stalls once in awhile for a week or two are normal--the body is programmed to hold onto weight, and is going to fight us every step of the way. But if it's longer than a week or two, that doesn't sound right! Now to contradict myself... One thing that happened to me a few weeks ago when I started increasing my calories is that it triggered some head hunger in me. Seeing the numbers go up on My Fitness Pal caused emotional upheaval that I wasn't ready for--guilt, anxiety, shame, cravings, etc. But that's me, and I'm the first to admit that I am really messed up when it comes to food. So this may not happen to you, or anyone else, but it was something that I had to deal with and am still trying to fight. I wish I'd stayed in the "safe" post-op zone, when I didn't have to make decisions and deal with my demons. I'm so much better at following strict rules and restrictive dieting than I am at moderation! But again, that's just me--because I'm messed up. I think for a "normal" person, it's perfectly fine to increase your calories to a comfortable level, provided you're still meeting your protein/carbs/etc guidelines. Good luck, whatever you decide!! [/quote']

Well we may be crazy but we are not alone on this forum I too have the same fears you do. Why else would I post asking if 800 calories is too much?? It's all about anxiety and control, shame, guilt and fear. Thanks for sharing that. It made me feel less alone.

I'm leaving for a 4-day biz trip. I plan to eat 2-3 oz of Protein whenever I'm hungry and let's see what happens. I will log faithfully as I do, and will try to let go of the fear.

[stacechase 251]

My two cents: I posted a similar question several weeks ago, but I was just losing at a slower rate than I was previously. I upped my calories (healthy cals, of course) from about 500 to 800-850, with about 450-500 cals burned from exercise daily, and I'm back to losing my usual 4 lbs a week. Increasing calories can certainly work! Good luck, it's all about tweaking things to see what will work. I have felt really full always from increasing my calories, but I'm losing more...it's a total mindf***. LOL.

[stacechase 251]

My two cents: I posted a similar question several weeks ago, but I was just losing at a slower rate than I was previously. I upped my calories (healthy cals, of course) from about 500 to 800-850, with about 450-500 cals burned from exercise daily, and I'm back to losing my usual 4 lbs a week. Increasing calories can certainly work! Good luck, it's all about tweaking things to see what will work. I have felt really full always from increasing my calories, but I'm losing more...it's a total mindf***. LOL.