Anti-Semitism In France!

TruBlueSue · January 31, 2007

Let me see if I grasp you logic here!! You feel justified in tearing apart Christianity because you can't accept that I believe in it's absolute truth, and am vocal in saying so.
But, it's a horrible thing if I quote a Bible verse that infers that people who don't believe in God are fools??

Is that what you are saying??

Nope that's not what I have said nor what I am saying. You can tell me til the cows come home that you think me a fool, and I will take that as an absolute compliment coming from someone like you. You can believe that the earth is flat, the sky is green, and that the sun revolves around the earth. Doesn't make much difference to me either way. But, do me a favor, okay? Keep your so-called truth to you and yours. Don't force me to defend it or to support it monetarily or anyway else. Just because BuSh and his ilk are running things, that does not mean that our Constitution or the ideals that our country was founded on have somehow been dissolved due to their 'inconvenience' to those who believe as you do. the great thing about the founding fathers (read the bestseller Washington, if you need a refresher) was the priescence they had about exactly this kind of thing happening in America. They planned for it and put it in writing - separation of Church and State - no belief test for citizenship, etc.

Besides, if you quote me some New Testament bible verse saying that those who don't believe in G-d are fools, I'd laugh, since I personally can't believe in something that contradicts the Torah; I don't believe G-d would just change his mind and create a new belief system on the foundation of the old - if so, then maybe Islam really IS the correction of both our faiths?

Ron Cusano · January 31, 2007

Then allow me to say this to you and to the board . . .

I fully accept the right of anyone here to believe or not believe anything they want. I have said that repeatedly, but no one is hearing it. I believe that what I believe is 100% absolute and correct, but I recognize others here do not believe that. I can accept that.

What I can't accept is people making disparing, mocking remarks about my faith, because they don't believe it. I am not imaging this because some have openly admitted doing so. You want names, I can give you names!People can call me anything they want, but when they make a mockery out of my God and my faith, I am going to get in their face about it.

If during the course of this long, long exchange, I have become overly aggressive, it is because I was offended for my faith. If some feel that I have offended them, I apolige to the group for that, again. I was wrong about a post I made about the moderators, and I also apoligized about that. When I make mistakes, I am not above owning them.

If some want to disagree with me about my beliefs, even argue with me and question me about it, I don't have a problem with that. I will respect your "unbelief", but you also need to respect my "belief" and my right to express it freely. It has to be a two-way street.

This is not mockery but this is a question that encapsulates the annoyance that the skeptical minority feel when confronted by the pressure to believe, a pressure that is present in most of America. Indeed, it is my understanding that it is only folks who live in large cities who are free of neighbourly scrutiny of their religious practices and that, furthermore, this business becomes a whole lot more freighted for those individuals who live in the south or the interior. It seems that you have got to believe or to pretend to believe in some form of Christianity when you chose to live in the heartland of America.
Indeed, it would appear that this question of religious freedom hinges upon where you happen to live in the United States. I am connected to a number of atheists who live and work down in the Bible Belt. These are well-educated professional white folks; I mention these facts because I wish to emphasize that these are the sort of individuals who are the most acceptable to all of us. These are people who have told me that if they went public about their disbelief in their local communities they would expect to see their houses torched and their businesses destroyed. As you can see, these are not people who feel that they have freedom of speech or of (dis)belief.

Ron Cusano · January 31, 2007

Sue, you said - "I don't believe G-d would just change his mind and create a new belief system on the foundation of the old " Then I would encourage you to read your own Hebrew scriptures in the Hebrew prophet Jeremiah 31: 31 - 37, and let's consider YOUR understanding of it after you read it!

This whole argument has nothing to do with Bush, politics, seperation of Church and state or the like. You are offended by the things that I said were absolute spiritual truth, were you not?

Nope that's not what I have said nor what I am saying. You can tell me til the cows come home that you think me a fool, and I will take that as an absolute compliment coming from someone like you. You can believe that the earth is flat, the sky is green, and that the sun revolves around the earth. Doesn't make much difference to me either way. But, do me a favor, okay? Keep your so-called truth to you and yours. Don't force me to defend it or to support it monetarily or anyway else. Just because BuSh and his ilk are running things, that does not mean that our Constitution or the ideals that our country was founded on have somehow been dissolved due to their 'inconvenience' to those who believe as you do. the great thing about the founding fathers (read the bestseller Washington, if you need a refresher) was the priescence they had about exactly this kind of thing happening in America. They planned for it and put it in writing - separation of Church and State - no belief test for citizenship, etc.

Besides, if you quote me some New Testament bible verse saying that those who don't believe in G-d are fools, I'd laugh, since I personally can't believe in something that contradicts the Torah; I don't believe G-d would just change his mind and create a new belief system on the foundation of the old - if so, then maybe Islam really IS the correction of both our faiths?

Ron Cusano · January 31, 2007

To win souls for Christ, speak TRUTH and defend the faith. Being right for my personal sake isn't even a consideration.

Cusano, what is your Quest? To prove that you are right? Or to bring more souls to Christ?

Ron Cusano · January 31, 2007

You know what, all "non-Christians, non-Whites, non-English speaking, non-straight people" and everyone else are all equal in God's eyes, and He wants all to be saved. There is no majority or minority, only those who believe and those who do not believe.

I feel for any LBT Christian who feels ganged up on in this or other threads. Let us hope that those Christians gain a little empathy for the non-Christians, non-Whites, non-English speaking, non-straight people who are constantly being subject to the abuse that many Christians deal out to them in the real world in the name of majority rules.

TruBlueSue · January 31, 2007

Sue, you said - "I don't believe G-d would just change his mind and create a new belief system on the foundation of the old " Then I would encourage you to read your own Hebrew scriptures in the Hebrew prophet Jeremiah 31: 31 - 37, and let's consider YOUR understanding of it after you read it.

I will happily read it in my Tanakh. I'll even read it in any version of your bible that you choose - as long as you read it in mine. I assume in your thirty years of study you learned hebrew to better understand your own scripture, right?

TruBlueSue · January 31, 2007

You are offended by the things that I said were absolute spiritual truth, were you not?

Ron, I am not offended by anything you say as an absolute spiritual truth, because I personally believe that you're misguided and that you honestly DON"T hear how abrasive you sound in your posts.My belief has nothing to do and is in no way an attack on you or your belief. That you're abrasive is okay and as I said before, while I have in the past and continue to defend your right to say those things, I reserve my right to disagree, and to dicuss my disagreement with you in a civilized manner.

Ron Cusano · January 31, 2007

I personally do not speak Hebrew, however a number of those that are in my congregation, Beth yeshua, speak it fluently, and I gleam much from them if there are questions on translation. In addition, I use a Strongs Concordance in my studies, that gives the translations of all the words in the Tenakh from the Hebrew root and from the greek root in the New Covenent. I would agree with you that there is much more incite to be gleamed from the Hebrew in which it was written.

When you read it, would you consider a serious, civil discussion about it??

I will happily read it in my Tanakh. I'll even read it in any version of your bible that you choose - as long as you read it in mine. I assume in your thirty years of study you learned hebrew to better understand your own scripture, right?

TruBlueSue · January 31, 2007

I personally do not speak Hebrew, In afddition, I use a Strongs Concordance in my studies, that gives the translations of all the words in the Tenakh from the Hebrew root
When you read it, would you consider a serious, civil discussion about it??

Sure I would - I have no problem with civil discourse. Like I said earlier, I think G-d gets a kick out of his creations wrestling with him like Jacob did.

GeezerSue · January 31, 2007

Oh..confusion abounds. I don't mock CHRISTIANITY!!!! I have Christian friends...even Christian minister friends...I mock FANATIC FUNDAMENTALISTS OF ANY STRIPE, because they are dangerous and stupid.

There is NO difference between the Taliban and the Fanatic Christian Fundamentalists...none. They all deserve my derision.

TruBlueSue · January 31, 2007

Taliban is just what I thought of, too, Sue. Funny the root of taliban is talib, which in arabic means student - taliban is just the plural, meaning students...but fanatic is fanatic is fanatic...

Ron Cusano · January 31, 2007

Well, I thank you for that! I honestly do not want or try to be abrasive, but I have a great zeal for what I believe. I also know that you think I am wrong in my beliefs, and thet you would be offended by my saying thet Jesus is the Messiah. I know how your people have been persecuted by people claiming to be Christians, and I am ashamed of them. I can tell you this, any true Christian has adeep love and respect for the Jewish people.

Let me share something with you! Thirty plus years ago, it was Jewish women who believed in Jesus as her Messiah that taught me about Him. Since that time, I have learned from and studied under a number of Jewish scolars, some who came from very orthodox and Hasidic backgrounds before coming to their belief in who the Messiah is. I know that the truth of this is contained, not in the New testament, but in Tenach, if you are willing to explore it with an open mind and heart.

Ron, I am not offended by anything you say as an absolute spiritual truth, because I personally believe that you're misguided and that you honestly DON"T hear how abrasive you sound in your posts.My belief has nothing to do and is in no way an attack on you or your belief. That you're abrasive is okay and as I said before, while I have in the past and continue to defend your right to say those things, I reserve my right to disagree, and to dicuss my disagreement with you in a civilized manner.

TruBlueSue · January 31, 2007

Ron, I'm not offended by you saying JC is the messiah, and I do not think you are wrong, per se - I believe, and the Rabbis of old teach thatG-d delights in our wrestling with him - and I chalk all this right up there to that.

Ron Cusano · January 31, 2007

So if you can mock fundamentalists and compare them to Taliban, is it OK if I were to mock athiests and compare them to Hitler? Is that acceptable to you??

Oh..confusion abounds. I don't mock CHRISTIANITY!!!! I have Christian friends...even Christian minister friends...I mock FANATIC FUNDAMENTALISTS OF ANY STRIPE, because they are dangerous and stupid.
There is NO difference between the Taliban and the Fanatic Christian Fundamentalists...none. They all deserve my derision.

TruBlueSue · January 31, 2007

So if you can mock fundamentalists and compare them to Taliban, is it OK if I were to mock athiests and compare them to Hitler? Is that acceptable to you??

Wait, Ron - Hitler claimed to be a christian and I use little 'c' so as not to offend anyone...lutheranism WAS the state religion in the Third Reich...