Anti-Semitism In France!

[lisah25 3]

Listen, Christians, by virtue of their beliefs, will go to great lengths to share their faith. It is who they are! When we see someone who we believe to be eternally lost, professing themselves to be an athiest, we have a spiritual and moral obligation to share our faith with them. They may or may not accept it, but nevertheless, we must share it. We would be hypocrits if we did not. If being exposed to Christian faith and beliefs maks a "flock of atheists angry", then something must be hitting home!

Asking an athiest is they have examined their position on faith is very relevant, since atheists usually base their lack of faith entirely on "feelings" which can not be substanciated and have no basis in fact. It is based upon a foundation of sand that quickly washes away when put to the test. The result is usually anger, which as you point out, has happened here! God bless!

Wow. I don't agree. I do agree that when the time and place is right, yes, we should share our faith. However, not all times and places are right.

But to make such sweeping assumtions about what led others to their beliefs is so conterproductive to what you say you want to do. I don't think it helps anyone to share my faith in such a way that turns people off. And telling strangers on an internet forum such things is one of those ways.

[Wheetsin 714]

If being exposed to Christian faith and beliefs maks a "flock of atheists angry",

Being exposed doesn't make people angry. At least not me. I'm exposed to christian faith and beliefs while driving down the road, walking into a store, grabbing some groceries on the way home. It's everywhere. Literally unavoidable. Yet I don't find myself angry when I pass the bibles on the bookshelf.

From where I'm sitting, this has really become an apples and oranges topic. For example, what Green expressed is not what you replied to. Or if it is, on a selective basis at best. And what I've expressed is pretty not much what you replied with.

moral obligation to share our faith with them

Do you understand that not everyone wants your morality or faith shared with them? And if that's the case, would you force the issue?

[Ron Cusano 0]

I wonder if Jesus picked and chose where and when he preached the truth? The time and place is always whenever the opportunity presents itself.

My "sweeping assumtions" as you co colorfully put it, about how athiests arrive at their conclusion that there is no God, is based upon many years of conversations and debates with athiests. It is a position that cannot be defended.

Jesus made people angry every time he opened His mouth, and He told us to expect the same. He said "the world will hate you because it first hated me"! "Turning people off" by sharing your faith is not something new! A lot of people are being lost because Believers are waiting for just "the right time and place" to share salvation with unbelievers.

[green 6]

Listen, Christians, by virtue of their beliefs, will go to great lengths to share their faith. It is who they are! When we see someone who we believe to be eternally lost, professing themselves to be an athiest, we have a spiritual and moral obligation to share our faith with them. They may or may not accept it, but nevertheless, we must share it. We would be hypocrits if we did not. If being exposed to Christian faith and beliefs maks a "flock of atheists angry", then something must be hitting home!

Asking an athiest is they have examined their position on faith is very relevant, since atheists usually base their lack of faith entirely on "feelings" which can not be substanciated and have no basis in fact. It is based upon a foundation of sand that quickly washes away when put to the test. The result is usually anger, which as you point out, has happened here! God bless!

Au contraire, in general atheists are fact oriented individuals and it is this that makes it impossible to take the existence of God, particularly the Judeo-Christian-Islamo variant of God, on faith. It is the multiple internal contradictions present in your often somber and bloodthirsty Holy Book as well as the complete lack of verifiable signs of God that lead the fact-driven atheist away from belief.

"Feelings," as you so dismissively describe the basis of our disbelief can more properly said to be the very thing which props up your belief.

As for why you are under attack, Cusano, well here is the answer as per Green. If you have taken the trouble to carefully read the debates which we have in the Lapband fora you will note that our input comes from across the spectrum of beliefs, be they right wing or left wing, pro or anti Bush, and of course the members who are Christian have a wide variety of beliefs as to what properly constitutes a good and decent Christian.

While various Christian beliefs have been challenged within the context of a specific discussion I don't really believe that Christians have, as a group, come under fire for their beliefs. Moreover, none of the Christians on this group have attacked those of us who are not Christian for our beliefs or lack of 'em.

When you talk of something hitting home that would be the sharp sense of annoyance with individuals like yourself, smarmy individuals who talk down to us and who do not respect our intellects and the choices that we have made.

[anonemouse 1]

What sparked me to bring up the subject was your moniker of "token athiest" which seems like an open invitation for discussion of the subject.

The title of "Token Atheist" is no more an open invitation for interrogation of someone's personal beliefs than is the title of "Proud Christian". If someone had that title under their name, I would be immediately jumped on by you and Leatha_g and a lot of other people if I implied that all Christians were stupid, uneducated, and obviously "had not done their homework".

Try to spread your beliefs all you want. I am not going to stop you. I don't WANT to try to stop you, because I feel that everyone should have the right to have their own personal beliefs respected. My only problem with you is the way you speak to the people with whom you are wanting to discuss their personal beliefs.

Now, I admit I probably got a little too hot under the collar last night, but I stand by everything I said. Having certain personal beliefs does not give you the right to denigrate the beliefs of others or insult their intelligence and education. In fact, it is contrary to your belief that you must share the "love of God" with as many people as possible and attract them to Christianity. Because, to be honest, if experiencing "the love of God" makes me into the type of person who thinks it's fine and dandy to insult other people's beliefs in the way that you did, I don't want to ever experience it.

[Ron Cusano 0]

First, I have not complained about being attacked, or questioned it. Your comments about the Bible and what it teaches makes it clear that you have never read, studied or researched it's claims, just as most other athiests. It is easy to dismiss something you only have a superficial knowledge about. You speak of contridictions in the scriptures when, in fact, none exist. What you preceive as being contridictions comes from taking verses out of context, and picking and choosing subject matter that is not relevant to the point. You fail to see or understand the entire picture because you are focusing on only one tiny particle. It's like going to a buffet, seeing an olive, and saying, "I hate olives, therefore this buffet is no good. it's all about olives!!"

Your statement that there are no "verifiable signs of God" bears evidence that you have not done your research! Bible prophecy by itself offers just that proof by providing evidence of history being written in advance, where the odds of it happening are far beyond the realm of mear probability or chance. You are repeating the tired old rantings of those who who ignorantly dismiss God because they don't understand Him or take the time to examine the evidence.

[lisah25 3]

I wonder if Jesus picked and chose where and when he preached the truth? The time and place is always whenever the opportunity presents itself.

My "sweeping assumtions" as you co colorfully put it, about how athiests arrive at their conclusion that there is no God, is based upon many years of conversations and debates with athiests. It is a position that cannot be defended.

Jesus made people angry every time he opened His mouth, and He told us to expect the same. He said "the world will hate you because it first hated me"! "Turning people off" by sharing your faith is not something new! A lot of people are being lost because Believers are waiting for just "the right time and place" to share salvation with unbelievers.

It just seems to me that turning people off isn't a goal. Jesus did more then preach, He took actions.

Let me try this example. I LOVE my lap band. So far it's one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I feel that it literally is saving my life. I see other obese people around me and I want them to have the same thing.

So, if someone asks me if I've lost weight, and how I did it, I feel that that is a great opening to talk about the band. About what it's done for me. But I wouldn't just go up to someone who I could see was obese(much as you saw Wheetsin is an athiest) and tell them that I know this wonderful solution to their problems.

Edited to add - I'm not comparing being an athiest with being obese, that both are "problems" that need to be addressed. I'm talking about timing and results.

[Wheetsin 714]

A little respect goes a long way here. Even when we viciously disagree, we are respectful to each other. Perhaps you will realize that some day, if you stick around long enough. But joining a board to "stir the pot" probably won't bring you closer to that realization.

You are stating your opinions as facts, perhaps blind to the idea that other christians, who believe they are as good of a christian as you seem to believe you are, do not agree with what you are saying. Yet you're "right". That seems very important to you, being "right". Entering into a debate with something intent on being "right" is an exercise in futility.

You are repeating the tired old rantings of those who who ignorantly dismiss God because they don't understand Him or take the time to examine the evidence.

Just as you are repeating the "tired old rantings", as you so eloquently and respectfully put it, of every other one of those, so to speak,who has ridiculed us for not sharing their belief.

And FWIW, stating that atheists base their beliefs, or lack of, on feelings is also a "tired old ranting" shows how little you understand of atheists or why they believe the way they do. It couldn't be farther from feelings. So we can't deny god because we're being "ignorant" and not examing the evidence... but you can spout about why atheists believe what they do, and be totally inaccurate.

If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and talks like a duck... or perhaps it's troll.

[green 6]

Oof, you are a sanctimonious fellow, aren't you? Who are you to say that atheists have no knowledge of the Bible? Many atheists become atheists after a close examination of the scriptures.

[anonemouse 1]

Ron, I became an Atheist after attending church services every single Sunday for 18 years. Don't you dare tell me what I believe or how I came to believe it.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Seems like the vultures are circling the carcass! Seems like I have rattled a lot of cages!

Regarding my feeling that my beliefs are right! Duh! Of course I think they are right, or they would not be my beliefs. And yes, being right is very important to me, because I certainly would not want to believe something that was wrong. And YOU talk about an "exercise in futility" Come on now! You can do better that. I also believe that you are sincere in what you believe, howbeit, sincerely wrong!

In over 30 years, I have never met an athiest that has studied the scriptures with an open mind and heart, and remained an athiest. I have also never met someone who has studied the scriptures with an open mind and heart, and became an athiest! That, plus the obvious lack of incite into the entirety of God's Word that has been expressed here, leads me to the conclusions that I have made and shared.

Concerning other Christians that have posted on this thread, we may disagree on how and where to share our faith, but we do not disagree about what and who we believe. We are still brothers and sisters in Christ, and that remark was low and hitting below the belt. In fact it was pretty desperate on your part!

With all of this yelling and screaming from so many athiests, not a single one has offered to explain why they believe, or don't believe as they do, which was my original question that got you all in a tizzy in the first place!

Do you just drool at the mouth at the thought of attacking Christians, or do you bring anything so substance to the table to support your convictions??

[Ron Cusano 0]

Attending a church does not make one a Christian! I know many, many people who attended church for years before they actually became a Christian.

Ron, I became an Atheist after attending church services every single Sunday for 18 years. Don't you dare tell me what I believe or how I came to believe it.

[anonemouse 1]

Ron, I will explain this to you one more time. I don't want to discuss my beliefs, because THEY ARE MY BELIEFS. They are very personal to me and I don't like discussing them with people who are only interested in converting me to some religion. You don't want a discussion, you want to tell people that they are wrong and lecture and cow them into becoming Christians.

If you want to discuss beliefs so much, why don't you tell us why YOU believe the way you do. Why should be bother to explain why we believe, if you aren't volunteering to do the same?

[Ron Cusano 0]

Really! I have yet to see one. There is a big difference between reading a book and diligently studing and researching it's claims. It takes an open mind and heart, which by nature, most athiests do not have when it comes to the Bible.

Oof, you are a sanctimonious fellow, aren't you? Who are you to say that atheists have no knowledge of the Bible? Many atheists become atheists after a close examination of the scriptures.

[lisah25 3]

Concerning other Christians that have posted on this thread, we may disagree on how and where to share our faith, but we do not disagree about what and who we believe. We are still brothers and sisters in Christ, and that remark was low and hitting below the belt. In fact it was pretty desperate on your part!?

Excuse me?! Which comment?

Let me be sure I understand. Are you saying since you and I are both Christians, I shouldn't publicly disagree with you? What in the world do I have to be "desperate" about?