Anti-Semitism In France!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I am asking because I truly, truly don't understand how someone can believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that he was crucified, died, and was resurrected on the third day UNLESS they acquire this knowledge from the Bible. And if they DO acquire this knowledge from the Bible, why do they not believe the other claims of the Bible?

No one comes to faith in Jesus through anything other than the Bible. It's not something you dream about or make up. You cannot know about Jesus unless you are told about or read about Him, and the text from which you read or from which the person telling you read is the Bible. The claim that someone is the Son of God and that He was resurrected after death is a rather fantastic one and does require faith to believe. I acknowledge that. My question is by what logical, consistent grounds does one accept this particular fantastic belief but not the rest of the text from which it came?

I'm sure I'll get accused of attacking, beating a dead horse, telling people they have to believe my way or they're going to hell, and a host of other things. Please note I have said none of these things. I am HONESTLY asking the question because I DON'T GET IT. So please, please, would someone explain it to me? I WANT to understand.

I came to it without believing in the Bible as a literal document. Because you can't do it or because you can not imagine how anyone could, does not mean it can't be done.

Do you know how an airplane flies?

If not, do you doubt that it can fly?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I have been asking that same question for 2-weeks but no one has an answer!

None of you business.

[Ron Cusano 0]

You don't seem to comprehend! Saten is not addressed as the Morning Star anywhere in the KJV.

You want to see the word HELL, read the verses I gave you!

Here is one so you don't have to put any effort into it -

Luk 16:23in HELL he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off,and Lazarus in his bosom.

I gave you a few dozen verses from the New Testament. I vave dozens more from the Old testament if you still gon't GET IT!!

#3 - You don't have a clue what you are talking about - as usual!

Not really. Typical round-about.

1) You never addressed the first point. You're only arguing about the frequency of how often Jesus refers to himself as the Morning Star.

2) I stated in what I've read, there is Paradise, and then the gnashing of teeth of those who are locked out of Paradise. I asked to have the actual "Hell" pointed out to me, as I'm curious about where it is.

3) More likely, it's because what they have to say challenges the uninspired, idiotic dogma of the Church.

I think there's a difference between Christianity and Churchianty. The Church is an institution that thrives on blind faith, constant donations, and inane dogma.

[Carlene 12]

She certainly has a way with words,

Ann Coulter is a HORRIBLE woman and a piss-poor example of a patriotic American. She accused the 9/11 widows of "enjoying their husbands' deaths". Since then, I have made it a point NOT to read anything written by Ann Coulter.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Gee! She speak highly of you!!

Ann Coulter is a HORRIBLE woman and a piss-poor example of a patriotic American. She accused the 9/11 widows of "enjoying their husbands' deaths". Since then, I have made it a point NOT to read anything written by Ann Coulter.

[sophrosyne 0]

You don't seem to comprehend! Saten is not addressed as the Morning Star anywhere in the KJV.

You want to see the word HELL, read the verses I gave you!

Here is one so you don't have to put any effort into it -

Luk 16:23in HELL helifted uphiseyes,beingintorments,andseethAbrahamafar off,andLazarusinhisbosom.

I gave you a few dozen verses from the New Testament. I vave dozens more from the Old testament if you still gon't GET IT!!

#3 - You don't have a clue what you are talking about - as usual!

Yo, dude, slow down and try to read actual English here for a sec.

1) Lucifer and Satan are not the same entity. I thought you said you were trained in Christianity or something. If you are, you should know that.

2) Did I SAY you were lying? I guess I should SPEAK VERY SLOWLY... In the PARTS I READ, it wasn't there. I asked honestly, you provided. I look forward to reading the actual passages.

3) I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you're clueless, there's nothing I can do about that.

[gadgetlady 4]

And just as you may get accused of beating a dead horse, telling people they have to believe my way or they're going to hell, and a host of other things -- I may get accused of ripping things apart, whining, being pathetic, vile, disgusting, and telling lies from the bowels of hell. Oh wait, I already have.

Not by me.

But I do have an honest comment, which could be interpreted as a question as well. I believe people come to faith in Jesus through other people all the time. So I'm not sure if "through" means "through reading", or "through analzying", or what. Do you believe that everyone out there who would answer "Yes!" to the question, "Do you have faith in Jesus" has read the bible?

What I said specifically was:

No one comes to faith in Jesus through anything other than the Bible. It's not something you dream about or make up. You cannot know about Jesus unless you are told about or read about Him, and the text from which you read or from which the person telling you read is the Bible.

So the answer to your honest comment (thank you for that) is: not everyone who has faith in Jesus has read the Bible. But somewhere down the line, the person who initially brought them to faith had to have some knowledge of Jesus from the Bible. They didn't make it up (or if they did, they got a lot wrong, because not everything about Christianity is intuitive.). If someone who claims to be a Christian hasn't read the Bible, my question would be, "Why?" Is it because there are no Bibles available in their part of the world or because they don't know how to read? Because those I understand. But if it's because they don't care enough to crack open the Book, I would question their dedication to the One they call Lord. And if it's because they believe it's a Book full of fairy tales, I would ask then why they believe the whole part about Jesus being the Son of God isn't also one big huge fairy tale.

[Carlene 12]

In the Catholic mass, with what you call "transubstanciation" you believe the host becomes the actual body and blood of Christ and you sacrifice him againb at every mass. That is what is wrong with the allogorical understanding of scripture.

We do not sacrifice Christ during the Mass. We partake of His body and blood, per his command.

By the way....here is the New King James version of First Corinthians 11:33-34

</SPAN> Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

[Carlene 12]

So I'm asking again, because if you answered I didn't see your response. If you profess to be a Christian and do NOT believe the Bible is literal, do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, died, and was resurrected on the third day?

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, also God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus was crucified, died, and was buried. I believe he arose from the dead and ascended into heaven.

[Wheetsin 714]

But if it's because they don't care enough to crack open the Book, I would question their dedication to the One they call Lord. And if it's because they believe it's a Book full of fairy tales, I would ask then why they believe the whole part about Jesus being the Son of God isn't also one big huge fairy tale.

I think it happens fairly often that people believe because that's what they're trained to do. I'm not saying it's common or the norm, just that I think it happens frequently - and I know it happens in a few cases - and I don't mean people who, by some state of physical being - are unable to read or comprehend the bible. I'm talking about people for whom what they're told is "good enough". Many people are placated by their ignorance - they don't know what they don't know. Perhaps the bible is to their christianity what the book is to my movie, and they just don't want to bother reading when there's someone else around to tell them what's up. I know christians, who are very certain of their dedication, who have not read the bible. I know for people for whom the bible is important, this is probably unfathomable. But for those people, it probably makes sense. Then again, I'm in neither situation, so I really can't say for sure. This is just my best guess.

[Carlene 12]

If you had a clue about the Old Testament Mosiac Law and how Jesus came to fulfill it, and the message of the whole of scripture, you would not even ask such a question.

Would a different example be more to your liking? I'm just quoting the Bible - the one that you say is to be taken literally.

How about this one?

But every woman who prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

[wavydaby 1]

What was the Noah question! I don't recall it but I will take a crack at it!

That one

Also, to the response that no one answered you about how can anyone believe in God, but not take the bible literally.

Neither you nor Gadget responded.

[anonemouse 1]

I think it happens fairly often that people believe because that's what they're trained to do. I'm not saying it's common or the norm, just that I think it happens frequently - and I know it happens in a few cases - and I don't mean people who, by some state of physical being - are unable to read or comprehend the bible. I'm talking about people for whom what they're told is "good enough". Many people are placated by their ignorance - they don't know what they don't know.

It's very similar to what a lot of people feel about evolution. For example, Ron basically said that he knows nothing about evolution, but he believes that it doesn't happen because some scientists have said that it doesn't. If people can feel that way about evolution, they can feel that way about religion. They believe something because it sounds good and other people tell them that they should believe it, not because they actually know anything about it.

[Wheetsin 714]

They believe something because it sounds good and other people tell them that they should believe it, not because they actually know anything about it.

I think many things fit into this - politics being a prime example. That's why I DON'T encourage everyone to vote. I'd rather see someone not vote, than vote without knowing and understanding the issues and characters on the ballot.

[Carlene 12]

Gee! She speak highly of you!!

I hope not. It would make me furious for that woman to speak my name. She is a publicity whore of the worst kind.