Anti-Semitism In France!

[lisah25 3]

So help me to understand then! If the Bible is not literal and does not mean what it actually says, than how do you know what to believe and have faith in??? Can you explain it??

Where are a couple of comments you've made in this thread. How do you reconcile that with what you know say above?

“The rule of interpretation used by virtually students of the scriptures is that you take everything literally except where the context makes it obvious it is not literal, as with the above examples.”

“The rule used by Bible scolars is that you read the Bible literally, except where it is obviously not literal based upon the context and the whole of scripture”

[lisah25 3]

Exactly! So you agree with that then??

I don't know. I admit, I'm very confused. You seem to be saying that if I say I don't take every word of the bible literally, I don't believe in it, yet also saying that context matters where the bible can't be taken literally. Honestly, I'm stumpted here. :help:

[Ron Cusano 0]

It's not confusing!! My question is an honest and legitimate question! If you are basing your faith on what is in the book, how do you know what to believe if you can't take it to mean what it actually says?

Let me give you an example! Jesus said "no man comes to the Father except through the Son"! Do you believe that literally? Jesus also spoke of "the days of Noah", referring to the Old Testament account. Do you believe Jesus there? Many here who profess to believe the Bible, but not literally, say they don't believe the Noah account. How do you pick and choose what to believe. It's a real question, and we are not talking about context here.

I don't know. I admit, I'm very confused. You seem to be saying that if I say I don't take every word of the bible literally, I don't believe in it, yet also saying that context matters where the bible can't be taken literally. Honestly, I'm stumpted here. :help:

[lisah25 3]

It's not confusing!! My question is an honest and legitimate question! If you are basing your faith on what is in the book, how do you know what to believe if you can't take it to mean what it actually says?

You keep saying that I pick and choose what to believe, while you seem to just know when context affects meaning. That's what confuses me. I'm doing the same thing you are, and yet you question me for it. I'm not trying to sarcastic or anything here, I am really and truely baffled.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Here is an example of what the context makes it clear that the meaning is not literal. Jesus said. "I am the bread of life"! Taken literally, that would mean that Jesus was actually a piece of bread. The rule of thumb in interpreting is what the contect clearly indicates that the meaning can not be literal, you look for another clear meaning. We know that Jesus was a human and not a loaf of Wonder breat, so we look at what was said, to whom, under what circumstances, etc. to determine what He was speaking about. We do this all the time with everything we say, read and do, but people have a hard time grasping this when it comes to the Bible. That is where context comes into play. According to so many here, if we take the Bible literally, then Jesus would actually be bread! Does this make any sense to you?

You keep saying that I pick and choose what to believe, while you seem to just know when context affects meaning. That's what confuses me. I'm doing the same thing you are, and yet you question me for it. I'm not trying to sarcastic or anything here, I am really and truely baffled.

[marjon9 6]

It's not confusing!! My question is an honest and legitimate question! If you are basing your faith on what is in the book, how do you know what to believe if you can't take it to mean what it actually says?

Let me give you an example! Jesus said "no man comes to the Father except through the Son"! Do you believe that literally? Jesus also spoke of "the days of Noah", referring to the Old Testament account. Do you believe Jesus there? Many here who profess to believe the Bible, but not literally, say they don't believe the Noah account. How do you pick and choose what to believe. It's a real question, and we are not talking about context here.

The part that you don't get Ron is that it is human beings who are the ones reading and interpreting the Bible. Let's assume that the Bible is the word of God and it means exactly what it says and it should be taken literally. Even with that assumption each human being will understand the Bible to mean something different. That's because a) humans are different, have different backgrounds and different levels of experience and intelligence, and words have different meanings, can be ambiguous and are subject to interpretation. This is true even if each person intends to read the words literally and give them a literal interpretation. That's why it is totally meaningless to argue that the Bible should be taken literally. That argument means nothing when it is humans -- fallable, varied humans -- who are doing the reading.

[lisah25 3]

Here is an example of what the context makes it clear that the meaning is not literal. Jesus said. "I am the bread of life"! Taken literally, that would mean that Jesus was actually a piece of bread. The rule of thumb in interpreting is what the contect clearly indicates that the meaning can not be literal, you look for another clear meaning. We know that Jesus was a human and not a loaf of Wonder breat, so we look at what was said, to whom, under what circumstances, etc. to determine what He was speaking about. We do this all the time with everything we say, read and do, but people have a hard time grasping this when it comes to the Bible. That is where context comes into play. According to so many here, if we take the Bible literally, then Jesus would actually be bread! Does this make any sense to you?

I'm not really looking for more examples Ron, I get the idea. But what I don't get is why you tell me I can't pick and choose, or you ask what I base my beliefs on? When from where I'm standing, we have pretty much the same approach.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I disagree! Understanding the Bible is a growing and learning process. If you were studying and trying to learn biology, you could open the books, pull out a few sentences or paragraphs and they would make little sense to you. After a certain amount of study and learning, you can understand those sentences and paragraphs. You could also say, every human being will interpert the biology books differently, therefore they can't be taken literally. That makes no sense at all. I have been studying scripture for over 30 years, so I would not expect someone with only a passing understanding to know what I have learned. The Bible is a book(s) of literal fact, and understanding the whole of scripture takes time and effort. It is not like reading comic books!

uote=marjon9;403669]The part that you don't get Ron is that it is human beings who are the ones reading and interpreting the Bible. Let's assume that the Bible is the word of God and it means exactly what it says and it should be taken literally. Even with that assumption each human being will understand the Bible to mean something different. That's because a) humans are different, have different backgrounds and different levels of experience and intelligence, and words have different meanings, can be ambiguous and are subject to interpretation. This is true even if each person intends to read the words literally and give them a literal interpretation. That's why it is totally meaningless to argue that the Bible should be taken literally. That argument means nothing when it is humans -- fallable, varied humans -- who are doing the reading.

[Ron Cusano 0]

No, I don't! I believe the Bible is 100% true, accurate and literal in the proper context. If I can't believe and rely on the whole book, I might just as well throw it away, because it's worth then becomes what I choose to make it. That is the difference. You either take the whole package, or leave it. There are ho half measures with scripture.

I'm not really looking for more examples Ron, I get the idea. But what I don't get is why you tell me I can't pick and choose, or you ask what I base my beliefs on? When from where I'm standing, we have pretty much the same approach.

[marjon9 6]

Understanding the Bible is a growing and learning process. I have been studying scripture for over 30 years, so I would not expect someone with only a passing understanding to know what I have learned. The Bible is a book(s) of literal fact, and understanding the whole of scripture takes time and effort. It is not like reading comic books!

Ron, you make my point for me better than I did. Even if the Bible is a book of literal fact, it will mean different things to different people at different times, depending on their level of experience, intelligence, etc. In other words, if 10 intelligent human beings study the scripture intently for 30 years, each will come away with a different understanding of the meaning of this book of "literal fact." That is exactly the point you just made, and I agree with you.

[Ron Cusano 0]

That is why God, in his wisdom, called some to be Pastors, teachers and evangelists so that others could also learn, just like colleges provide professors to teach the rest of us. It's when you don't pay attention to the professor that you fail to grasp the course! Should we abandon all sore of learning because everyone understand according to their intelligence or it may mean something different depending ofd where they are in life? There is no difference here!

Understanding the Bible is a growing and learning process. I have been studying scripture for over 30 years, so I would not expect someone with only a passing understanding to know what I have learned. The Bible is a book(s) of literal fact, and understanding the whole of scripture takes time and effort. It is not like reading comic books!

Ron, you make my point for me better than I did. Even if the Bible is a book of literal fact, it will mean different things to different people at different times, depending on their level of experience, intelligence, etc. In other words, if 10 intelligent human beings study the scripture intently for 30 years, each will come away with a different understanding of the meaning of this book of "literal fact." That is exactly the point you just made, and I agree with you.

[lisah25 3]

No, I don't! I believe the Bible is 100% true, accurate and literal in the proper context. If I can't believe and rely on the whole book, I might just as well throw it away, because it's worth then becomes what I choose to make it. That is the difference. You either take the whole package, or leave it. There are ho half measures with scripture.

I guess I just don't know how to get across what I'm trying to figure out, so I'll drop it. Thanks Ron.

[Ron Cusano 0]

She certainly has a way with words,

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/03/01/ann-coulter-let-the-libs-eat-tofu/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humanevents.com%2Farticle.php%3Fid%3D19625&frame=true

[marjon9 6]

That is why God, in his wisdom, called some to be Pastors, teachers and evangelists so that others could also learn

And each of those Pastors, teachers and evangelists will have a different understanding of this book of "literal fact." Just like every good Christian.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I get the impression that you are genuinely confused and I can understand that. I was trying to simplify it, and not being a wiseguy about it. Let me leave you with this for what it's worth . . .

If there is a God, which I believe there is, and if God were to communicate with His creation, which I believe He does, then an infallible, all knowing, all loving God would do so in a perfect, infallible manner. Can you conceive of God giving us information about Him and what He wants from us that was not literal, understandable, that was open to private interpetion and something that could not be comprehended? To provide us with a Bible that cannot be taken at face value is against the very nature of a perfect God.

I guess I just don't know how to get across what I'm trying to figure out, so I'll drop it. Thanks Ron.