Anti-Semitism In France!

[green 6]

That quote is 100% accurate, and please not it say's "in our image" which is an indication to the pluarality of God. You are taking image to mean physical image, and it does not. Since God is spirit and does not have a body, in cannot possible mean "physical image", can it?

The Hebrew word used that was translated to meane "image" was the word "Tselem" which means "to shade; a phantom, illusion, resemblance, a representative figure". As you can see, this does not necessarily mean a "physical image". Given what the whole of scripture teaches us about the spiritual nature of God, the explanation that gave you is the correct one. I have never heard a student of scripture explain it otherwise.

Sounds like we are god's golems.:phanvan

[Wheetsin 714]

TOM, I always enjoy reading your connections between god and the process of evolution. If I did believe in god, I think your interpretation of these two schema would make the most sense to me. Why would the image of god need a vestigial tail? Or streamlined body hair? Or obsolete organs? Or the ability to swim at birth? Etc.

Have you (TOM) by any chance ever studied pre-Socratic philosophy? There was a fellow named Thales you might enjoy reading. He had some very interesting ideas on the origin of mankind.

[Wheetsin 714]

If you understood all of scripture, and did not need to pull out verses to try to make them something there are not intended to be, we would not be having this conversation.

Ron Cusano, you're quick to point the "trying to twist things" finger, but people by and large ask the questions they do because they're curious and are trying to either understand more about religion, or understand your particular take on it. Or because something you say truly does not resonate with them, or seems to contradict something else they've encountered, and they would like to know the reasoning. Why can you not take questions at face value? For virtually this entire thread, you've appared to see questions as personal attacks or mockery, rather than searches for more information or understanding. No matter how sincere the people were in their questioning. Why is that?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

You can twist, turn and question all you want, but it does not change scripture. God rested in the sense that the ceased from creating. You are trying to attribute human limitations of God who is spirit and all powerful. If you understood all of scripture, and did not need to pull out verses to try to make them something there are not intended to be, we would not be having this conversation. You could do as much with any book, article or newspaper ever written, but it doesn't change it's context or meaning.

Then why did they use a Hebrew word that means "to rest", when a Hebrew work for "decided to admire his handiwork" or "took a break" or "stopped" would have done?

You can not have it both ways. The Bible is either literal or it isn't. If it is literal when it suits you and requires context (another way of saying interpretation) when it suits you, then I would hate to play poker with you.

[Wheetsin 714]

The Bible is either literal or it isn't. If it is literal when it suits you and requires context (another way of saying interpretation)

That's exactly the point I was trying to make oh... a few pages ago. Context necessarily means that something is up for interpretation. One thing said in context A may not mean the same thing in context B. Therefore whatever was said is not literal. But unfortunately I was attacked personally (largely on incorrect assumptions), versus my point or opinion being attacked.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

TOM, I always enjoy reading your connections between god and the process of evolution. If I did believe in god, I think your interpretation of these two schema would make the most sense to me. Why would the image of god need a vestigial tail? Or streamlined body hair? Or obsolete organs? Or the ability to swim at birth? Etc.

Have you (TOM) by any chance ever studied pre-Socratic philosophy? There was a fellow named Thales you might enjoy reading. He had some very interesting ideas on the origin of mankind.

Thank you. I get most of this stuff right out of my head. The opinions, I mean.

I had not heard of Thales, but I will try to read up on him.

I also discussed the "turned off" genes which comprises the majority of a human's DNA and why would God have inserted so much waste in us if he made us in his image in the thread on evolution versus Intelligent Design.

Physical Image, I meant.

[Ron Cusano 0]

First of all, the 10 Commandment were only a sumation of the 213 Mosasic Laws given to Israel. Good works and loving our neighbors are very important and are the natural result of the salvation experience. However, as important good works are, they can not get you to heaven. Only salvation through the shed blood of the Messiah can make that occur.

Hitler professed to be a Catholic, but no one indwelled by the Holy Spirit and truly a Believer in Jesus could do what he did to God's Chosen People.

But what is the value of belief in salvation without acknowledgement of the value of good works? The Old Covenant offers up the Ten Commandments and the New Testament offers up the injunction that we must love our neighbours as we would ourselves be loved. We are also presented with the spectacle of who Jesus was when He appeared in His fleshly form and how He behaved while He was downstairs and walking about on this earth. All of this is, presumably, part of the package, is it not?

(Hitler, by the way, had a belief in salvation and thought that it would be a good thing to scrub out the Jews. This, arguably, was not a good work, eh.)

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

First of all, the 10 Commandment were only a sumation of the 213 Mosasic Laws given to Israel. Good works and loving our neighbors are very important and are the natural result of the salvation experience. However, as important good works are, they can not get you to heaven. Only salvation through the shed blood of the Messiah can make that occur.

Would it not be accurate to say that someone who was saved by Jesus, but then did no good works and in fact, reverted to doing bad works might knock that someone out of Heaven?

Hitler professed to be a Catholic, but no one indwelled by the Holy Spirit and truly a Believer in Jesus could do what he did to God's Chosen People.

And would someone who believes in Jesus use "Shock & Awe" on civilians in the country where the "Garden of Eden" was? And on the direct descendants of Adam and Eve, to boot?

[BJean 16]

TOM: That's exactly why the war and the way it came about is so horrific to people who have faith, believe in goodness and mercy and deplore killing other human beings, especially when done by someone who heads a country that some people say is a nation indivisible "under God."

[BJean 16]

OUSooner: I do know that not all Southern Baptists are hypocrites. I've met some who are very sincere and who practice their religion in a very positive way.

My cousin and her husband are Southern Baptist Missionaries. They spent their entire lives since college in the Middle East running schools and churches and doing other Church work. They did start out pretty idealistic and harshly critical of anyone who didn't embrace their church, but over the years learned and grew and have become good and sincere Christians without passing judgment on others. They have some fascinating stories to tell.

But I do have trouble getting past some others who have no tolerance for other churches and other doctrines. Especially when they are obviously not the kind and loving creatures that Jesus wants us to become.

[Ron Cusano 0]

No, it is not accurate! The Bible teaches the doctrine of "eternal security" which means once you come to believe and receive salvation, it is impossile to lose it. It is never determined by doing good works.

Would it not be accurate to say that someone who was saved by Jesus, but then did no good works and in fact, reverted to doing bad works might knock that someone out of Heaven?

And would someone who believes in Jesus use "Shock & Awe" on civilians in the country where the "Garden of Eden" was? And on the direct descendants of Adam and Eve, to boot? There is so much to argue about here politically, but spiritually, there is nothing to preclude a Christian President from engaging in war if he believes it is in the national interest, and "Shoch & Awe" was not directed at innocent civilians. It is sad and unfortunate that some innocents are hurt and killed in any war, so if you want to level that charge you have to level it at every government official from every country. You can't just single out one.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

No, it is not accurate! The Bible teaches the doctrine of "eternal security" which means once you come to believe and receive salvation, it is impossile to lose it. It is never determined by doing good works.

The Bible can teach whatever someone wants to believe it teaches, but many people claim to be in communication with Jesus and still do some horrific things. Not only don't they do good works, but they do evil deeds.

[Ron Cusano 0]

You're right! But just because someone "claims" to be in touch with Jesus does not mean they really are. I could say I'm a piano player, but that doesn't make me a piano player. Jesus said you can tell those who belong to Him by "the fruit they bear"! Good works are the natural result of being one that belongs to Jesus. If you don't see the "fruit", chances are it's a barren, dead tree!!

The Bible can teach whatever someone wants to believe it teaches, but many people claim to be in communication with Jesus and still do some horrific things. Not only don't they do good works, but they do evil deeds.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I don't know if anyone has heard the news, but there is a claim that the boxes that Jesus and his family were buried in have been found.

"While the Bible tells the story of Jesus and his resurrection, this box could show physical evidence that he existed, was buried and that he had a son, Judah."

While that might upset those that believe in the word for word Bible, it will not interfere with my faith, because, I don't care if it was the human body of Jesus that was resurrected or a hologram type image that one could put their hand through It is all the same to me.

I guess some group will come out with a new connotation of the word “resurrected” (was that in Greek, Hebrew of Aramaic?), so that the people who need a literal Bible can say, "I told you so", while others will deny any facts that may be shown "as science run a muck".

It is nice to know that until "Global Warming" destroys the Earth (or at least its ability to support human life), there will be something interesting to debate.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

You're right! But just because someone "claims" to be in touch with Jesus does not mean they really are. I could say I'm a piano player, but that doesn't make me a piano player. Jesus said you can tell those who belong to Him by "the fruit they bear"! Good works are the natural result of being one that belongs to Jesus. If you don't see the "fruit", chances are it's a barren, dead tree!!

So letting people on death row die when other states show a high percentage of innocent people on death row, and bombing innocent civilians is "the fruit BuSh bears" to prove that he belongs to Jesus?

How come you (claim to) see through Hitler, but you can't see through BuSh?