Anti-Semitism In France!

[Ron Cusano 0]

PS - To answer the rest of your rant . . .

I am against abortion, against gay marriage and in favor of the right to bear arms. I have made of secret of that and spoke about it several times. If being anti-abortion is anti-choice, guilty as charged. So what are you ranting about. As far as being pro-death, anti-help for the needy - give me a break. I don't think that even you believe that!! Apparently you see all Conservatives that way, and you are flat out wrong. I personally believe my positions on these things are in accordance with my biblical beliefs.

You take exception to what I quote and say from the Bible? That's your right, but it's meaningless unless there is something specific that you have found wrong. I would love to discuss it with you.

I have often be told that I lose my temper on this thread, but you do it more that I do.

I am sick and tired of listening to you say that the scriptures are not up for interpretation, Ron. Yet that is exactly what you do on a continual basis. You pick and choose and you tell us here exactly what you have decided each scripture you're citing means, ad naseum.

If anyone started reading this thread and believed something you said to be God's word, it wouldn't take them long to see that they better be very careful listening to you. You are manipulative and you use the Bible to answer every argument. Why can't you take responsibility for what you say? If someone disagrees with you, you say that you aren't the one saying it, the Bible is. I'm sick of it. Take responsibility for your words - YOUR WORDS - the ones that you are constantly spewing here. You have an opinion, own up to it. You like the fact that conservative Republicans are pro-death, pro-war, anti-help for the needy, anti-choice, against gun control, etc., etc., etc. These are your choices... own up to them. Because when you do not, your whole argument about scriptures, the Bible's teachings and your ministry appear to be a sham. One man's power struggle. And a seemingly not very bright man at that.

[lisah25 3]

OK, here are a few verses to make the point(s) we discussed

You say that homosexuality does not have a bad effect on society and did not in Sodom. Apparently Jude disagrees -

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Fornication is not exclusivly homosexual. Neither is "strange flesh" referring to homosexuality alone.

About weather a Christian ought to take a stand against sin (homosexuality & same sex marriage)

1 Peter 4:11 - If any man speak,let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ . . . How we vote is speaking publically about what we believe. Is condoning an abomination giving glory to God?

1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy,so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Same argument, Is condoning an abomination holy?

Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.| Can you abhor an abomination and vote for it too??

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin . An abominable sin is certainly unrightousness!

There are countless more, but this should make the point.

My vote isn't publicly speaking about anything. And yes, I believe I can seperate how I decide to live my life from how I think we should legally require others, who are not Christians, to live theirs.

I love the freedom I have that allows me to choose what I will do, how I believe I need to honor my God. I'm not willing to give that up. So, I can't support laws that are based on just what the Bible says. That in NO WAY OR SHAPE means I don't live by what I think it says. I'm just not willing to legally require anyone does.

[Ron Cusano 0]

OK then, suppose you tell me what "strange flesh" means here in the context of this verse about Sodom??

Fornication is not exclusivly homosexual. Neither is "strange flesh" referring to homosexuality alone.

My vote isn't publicly speaking about anything. And yes, I believe I can seperate how I decide to live my life from how I think we should legally require others, who are not Christians, to live theirs.

I love the freedom I have that allows me to choose what I will do, how I believe I need to honor my God. I'm not willing to give that up. So, I can't support laws that are based on just what the Bible says. That in NO WAY OR SHAPE means I don't live by what I think it says. I'm just not willing to legally require anyone does.

That is certainly your choice! I am just pointing out that is it inconsistant with scripture. What you do with that information is your business.

[lisah25 3]

That is certainly your choice! I am just pointing out that is it inconsistant with scripture. What you do with that information is your business.

No, it is inconsistent with what YOU think that scripture says. It's not with what I think it says.

Someone earlier said they were glad they were going to answer to God, not you. I feel the same. You can tell me all you want I'm not a good Christian, that I'm not following the Bible, and it doesn't bother me in the least. I know who I will answer to someday, and believe me that matters MUCH more to me then what you or anyone else on this earth thinks of how I'm living. I rest easy at night, well except for that CPAP machine I'm stuck with... :biggrin1:

[Ron Cusano 0]

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion and I have no problem with that. But, you made a statement about "strange flesh" not meaning homosexuality in the verse I sent to you. You havn't answered regarding what else it could possible mean in the context of that verse. Please respond.

No, it is inconsistent with what YOU think that scripture says. It's not with what I think it says.

Someone earlier said they were glad they were going to answer to God, not you. I feel the same. You can tell me all you want I'm not a good Christian, that I'm not following the Bible, and it doesn't bother me in the least. I know who I will answer to someday, and believe me that matters MUCH more to me then what you or anyone else on this earth thinks of how I'm living. I rest easy at night, well except for that CPAP machine I'm stuck with... :biggrin1:

[anonemouse 1]

But, you made a statement about "strange flesh" not meaning homosexuality in the verse I sent to you. You havn't answered regarding what else it could possible mean in the context of that verse.

"Strange flesh" could easily mean bestiality or even adultery.

[ousooner 1]

You certainly don't have to answer to me about anything. Let me ask you a question! You said last week that if you had to vote about same sex marriage you would abstain. How do you think Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, James, Moses or any of the men of God in scripture would have answered that question?

I honestly believe (and you can call me a sell-out, that I comprimise my faith, etc, etc, etc) But I beleive they would not interfer as long as it did not put restriction on following their faith. I would vote whole-heatedly against anything or anyone who tried to pass laws that limited my ability to worship God as I felt called to do. Again we go back to God giving us free will. The early Christians , to the best of my knowledge, did not try to get Ceasar to change the laws to make the Roman empire a Christian nation. They only wanted to be allowed to worship as they wanted.

[Ron Cusano 0]

And I agree with everything you just said, but you are missing the point. We are not talking about any laws that prohibit or require anyone to worship or not worship any way they please. We are talking about laws that condon and make legal acts the the Bible and God calls abominations. There is a very big difference here.

I honestly believe (and you can call me a sell-out, that I comprimise my faith, etc, etc, etc) But I beleive they would not interfer as long as it did not put restriction on following their faith. I would vote whole-heatedly against anything or anyone who tried to pass laws that limited my ability to worship God as I felt called to do. Again we go back to God giving us free will. The early Christians , to the best of my knowledge, did not try to get Ceasar to change the laws to make the Roman empire a Christian nation. They only wanted to be allowed to worship as they wanted.

[lisah25 3]

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion and I have no problem with that. But, you made a statement about "strange flesh" not meaning homosexuality in the verse I sent to you. You havn't answered regarding what else it could possible mean in the context of that verse. Please respond.

I said what you posted didn't specifiy homosexuality. My PC is acting up, so bear with me.

In the NIV, Jude 1:7 talks about sexual imorality and perversion. Which covers a lot. And yet, you focus on one thing.

"Strange flesh" could mean many things, including beasility. I see nothing in that verse the singles out homosexuality.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Not within the context of that verse, and not speaking about a city that was known for it's homosexuality. Beastiality was not an issue that we know about in Sodom. There is no reason to indicate that "strange flesh" could mean adultry, and every reason to indicate that is means homosexality, which Sodon was noted for.

"Strange flesh" could easily mean bestiality or even adultery.

[lisah25 3]

"Strange flesh" could easily mean bestiality or even adultery.

LOL-Yep.

This goes back to my feelings about how Ron interprets the Bible. He is focusing on homosexuality, when those verses don't mention it. I give God a great deal of credit for being specific when it's important.

[lisah25 3]

And I agree with everything you just said, but you are missing the point. We are not talking about any laws that prohibit or require anyone to worship or not worship any way they please. We are talking about laws that condon and make legal acts the the Bible and God calls abominations. There is a very big difference here.

I don't agree (yeah, big surprise I know). Things being an abomination are part of beliving in a given religion. So, you can't seperate it out from saying they are indeed laws about worshiping as one sees fit.

[lisah25 3]

Not within the context of that verse, and not speaking about a city that was known for it's homosexuality. Beastiality was not an issue that we know about in Sodom. There is no reason to indicate that "strange flesh" could mean adultry, and every reason to indicate that is means homosexality, which Sodon was noted for.

Where in the bible does is say Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality specifically?

[ousooner 1]

And I agree with everything you just said, but you are missing the point. We are not talking about any laws that prohibit or require anyone to worship or not worship any way they please. We are talking about laws that condon and make legal acts the the Bible and God calls abominations. There is a very big difference here.

But I am not missing the point. You asked specifically how I thought our predecessors or Jesus would vote and I answered that question and why. How did I miss the point?

[Ron Cusano 0]

And it is accurate. Taken in context, it can mean nothing else by homosexuality, which is what Sodom was known for. In the very next verse it speaks about them "defileing the flesh"! Beastility is not even something to consider because it is never ever mentioned in connection with Sodom. I suspect you picked that up from someone elses post.

You asked previously what I meant about picking and choosing verses to believe and changing or not believing verses that were inconvenieve with you opinions. This is exactly what I meant. The meaning of the verse is clear and obvious, and you want to change it's intent and meaning to support your opinion.

I said what you posted didn't specifiy homosexuality. My PC is acting up, so bear with me.

In the NIV, Jude 1:7 talks about sexual imorality and perversion. Which covers a lot. And yet, you focus on one thing.

"Strange flesh" could mean many things, including beasility. I see nothing in that verse the singles out homosexuality.