Anti-Semitism In France!

[gadgetlady 4]

You will never be flamed by me (and I can't speak for everyone, but I am sure none of the other regulars who post here would either), so it will always be safe to say what you feel.

You may see things written that you do not like. You may be the kindest person in the world, but if you are voting the same way that KKK members or Neo-Nazi members constantly vote, you might not like to hear that people who vote that way are responsible for this or that, but they are. Maybe your vote was based on different intentions than the KKK members and Neo-Nazi members, or maybe the code words that KKK members and Neo-Nazi members use are unknown to you, but any statements about those issues can still be valid without it being a personal attack on you.

So enlighten me. How do KKK members and Neo-Nazi members vote? Because it seems to me that they'd vote for things like racial and religious segregation (which I wouldn't vote for).

[Ms. Vicki 0]

Well said, Neal

[gadgetlady 4]

I would welcome the discussion and would not be offended. I would expect nothing less than them trying to convert me if they were true to their beleifs. If you beleive strognly in your faith, I don't see why you would not want everyone to experience the same wonderful experiences you have. I would do the same in return.

AMEN! AND AMEN AND AMEN! I know the Mormons knocking on my door are there to convert me. I am certainly not rude to them, I don't slam the door in their face, I don't scream obscenities at them or call others in my family to come to the door and help me gang up on them. If I don't have time, I politely tell them that. If I do, I engage in a polite and fact-filled discussion with them.

[anonemouse 1]

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I will answer. Hope thats ok. I would welcome the discussion and would not be offended. I would expect nothing less than them trying to convert me if they were true to their beleifs. If you beleive strognly in your faith, I don't see why you would not want everyone to experience the same wonderful experiences you have. I would do the same in return. I have always said that I admire the faith and didication that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses have. I am opposed to their beleifs, but have great admiration for them. I have told many that I wish people in my own faith could only have that kind of dedication dedication.

That's true, but I think people should know when to back off. That's one thing I really respected about my former roommate's boyfriend (he was Mormon). He would ask about your religion and he did the door-to-door thing, but if you said you didn't want to discuss it or that you had no intention of converting, he backed off. He was seriously interested in knowing what other people believed in. The type of people I am talking about that I have a problem with are the ones that don't know when to back off. They will start conversations about faith (which I have absolutely no problem with), and then constantly nag you to convert, telling you that you will go to Hell for believing the way you do. You know, the ones that have no intention of seriously discussing YOUR faith or beliefs, just converting you to their own. To me, that is an attack on my beliefs.

[Wheetsin 714]

Absolutely not. I can and have backed up everything I have said.

Really? Because I pretty distinctly remember you spreading lies and misinformation, and then having to double-step to try and talk your way out of it.

E.g.:

1. Atheists hate god.

2. Well I don't mean atheists hate god, I mean they hate christians.

3. Well I don't mean they hate christians, I mean they abhor christians.

4. Well I don't mean they abhor christians, I mean they generically display disdain for god and christians.

So which one of those statements does not count as "misinformation" or "lies"? 1? 2? 3? All of the above?

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't treat my faith like that at all. And the reason it's hard for me to answer you definitivly is that I don't have black and white rules for deciding what to take literally and what not to.

Can you give me some examples of things you don't take literally and what your reasoning is? And I don't mean Levitical law, which people are so fond of quoting. I mean something that the Bible says happened that you don't believe happened, or something that Jesus says we should do or not do that you don't agree with?

I never said I don't believe the account of Noah's ark, so I'm not sure why you are asking me that.

Do you believe the account of Noah's ark?

I've done a lot of reading, talking, listening and prayer in my faith. I have core beliefs about God, and so when I read the Bible I keep those in mind. I don't filter it based on what I want it to mean, I try very hard to be honest with myself and follow what I believe God wants. I may get some of it wrong, but as long as I'm being honest in my heart and mind and trying to follow Him, I believe His mercy will cover whatever I might miss.

Thanks for answering. I have to tell you, I feel the same way about His mercy and getting stuff wrong. I know there's stuff I've gotten wrong -- I have also changed my opinions on some things over the course of my life because of what the Bible says. So maybe there's more stuff further down the road for me to change about, too.

[ousooner 1]

That's true, but I think people should know when to back off. That's one thing I really respected about my former roommate's boyfriend (he was Mormon). He would ask about your religion and he did the door-to-door thing, but if you said you didn't want to discuss it or that you had no intention of converting, he backed off. He was seriously interested in knowing what other people believed in. The type of people I am talking about that I have a problem with are the ones that don't know when to back off. They will start conversations about faith (which I have absolutely no problem with), and then constantly nag you to convert, telling you that you will go to Hell for believing the way you do. You know, the ones that have no intention of seriously discussing YOUR faith or beliefs, just converting you to their own. To me, that is an attack on my beliefs.

If it were to get to that point, I would politely tell them that we must agree to disagree and let it drop. I would still be polite to them,

[anonemouse 1]

If it were to get to that point, I would politely tell them that we must agree to disagree and let it drop. I would still be polite to them,

But you would feel that what they had been doing was attacking your faith, correct? Otherwise, why drop the conversation?

[lisah25 3]

Can you give me some examples of things you don't take literally and what your reasoning is? And I don't mean Levitical law, which people are so fond of quoting. I mean something that the Bible says happened that you don't believe happened, or something that Jesus says we should do or not do that you don't agree with?

I had one in a post earlier on, that when I take communion I don't believe the bread is actaully the body of Christ, nor the wine His blood. I do it in remberence of His sacrifice.

I'm not sure on Noah's ark. But regardless, it's a story with a point for us. I guess that's the best way to put it now, that I believe some things are allegories, if that's the right word. They may not be word for word true, but they are there to make a point and teach me something.

[ousooner 1]

Thanks for answering. I have to tell you, I feel the same way about His mercy and getting stuff wrong. I know there's stuff I've gotten wrong -- I have also changed my opinions on some things over the course of my life because of what the Bible says. So maybe there's more stuff further down the road for me to change about, too.

That's refreshing to hear. We should all take that approach instead of acting like we know it all and refuse to listen to anythings else. I would like to think I learn on a daily basis, not just about my faith, but about life in general. I don't think I am compromising my faith if I change my mind about certain things because I am taught something I was unaware of previously.

[Wheetsin 714]

That's true, but I think people should know when to back off. That's one thing I really respected about my former roommate's boyfriend (he was Mormon). He would ask about your religion and he did the door-to-door thing, but if you said you didn't want to discuss it or that you had no intention of converting, he backed off.

That is very respectable, and I have a deep passion for conversations like that. Generally when you mention you are an atheist, you can literally see the offense wash over someone's face. You've probably experienced it and know what I'm talking about. It's something you can literally see happen before your eyes, like a shade being pulled.

A frequent response is, "Then let me ask you this... <insert "about to have an upper hand" smugness here>... what are you going to do on Judgement Day?" Hello... McFly...

When I read "in ministry" and then "are you serious?" and then "have you done your homework?" -- I knew which direction we were headed in. There was no desire to share just for the sake of sharing. If there had been, all of you non-believers might have had a chance of sharing your story without getting the "I was there too, until I..." responses, that weren't asked for. Maybe your story could have been your story, and ended there.

[ousooner 1]

But you would feel that what they had been doing was attacking your faith, correct? Otherwise, why drop the conversation?

I don't think I would consider it attacking my faith so much as I would feel they were just being a jerk. Unfortunately, there are jerks in every faith, race, etc.

[gadgetlady 4]

That's true, but I think people should know when to back off. That's one thing I really respected about my former roommate's boyfriend (he was Mormon). He would ask about your religion and he did the door-to-door thing, but if you said you didn't want to discuss it or that you had no intention of converting, he backed off. He was seriously interested in knowing what other people believed in. The type of people I am talking about that I have a problem with are the ones that don't know when to back off. They will start conversations about faith (which I have absolutely no problem with), and then constantly nag you to convert, telling you that you will go to Hell for believing the way you do. You know, the ones that have no intention of seriously discussing YOUR faith or beliefs, just converting you to their own. To me, that is an attack on my beliefs.

Well, I have to assume you're talking about Ron here. And I certainly didn't see a lot of backing off from the, for want of a better term, anti-Ron contingent here. I saw a lot of attacking and attacking back. And when someone apologizes for participating in the barroom brawl, does it really make sense to keep throwing punches? What I saw last night was akin to the popular kids ganging up on the fat kid in elementary school. Everyone who participated should be ashamed of themselves. And I mean everyone.

You talk about someone "nagging you to convert". You have the unique opportunity, in this forum, to escape the nagging. They can't nag (or what they're saying can't be construed as nagging) if you're not in the room.

I am actually quite surprised that this whole thread hasn't been locked because of the blatant personal attacks that are going on. Not that I ever thought locking a thread could be successful when it could just be opened up again in a new thread, but I've seen threads locked for less.

[BJean 16]

ousooner: Yea you! That was great to read.

[lisah25 3]

That's refreshing to hear. We should all take that approach instead of acting like we know it all and refuse to listen to anythings else. I would like to think I learn on a daily basis, not just about my faith, but about life in general. I don't think I am compromising my faith if I change my mind about certain things because I am taught something I was unaware of previously.

I agree. The minute I think I have it down is the minute I stop being open to learning. I'm trying to not let that happen. Even reading Ron's words has made me think about some things, and research a bit.

And Gadgetlady I'm sorry, I meant to comment on that as well and deleted, so forgot.