Anti-Semitism In France!

[GregNE 0]

Then I guess someone forgot to tell the prophet Isaiah 14:14 about 600 years before you St. Jerome!! Where do you get this rubbish?

Now that is a stupid statement. As a biblical scholar, you should know that many names and terms we use now were interpretations.

In the Vulgate, an early-5th-century translation of the Bible into Latin by Jerome, Lucifer occurs in Isaiah 14:12-14 as a translation of the Greek word heosphorus ("dawn-bearer"), an epithet of Venus. The original Hebrew text of this verse was הילל בן שחר (heilel ben-schahar), meaning "Helel son of Shahar." Helel was a Babylonian / Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian / Canaanite god named Shahar.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I think you two have a lot in common, but at least she comes up with some good information sometimes!

I hope not. It would make me furious for that woman to speak my name. She is a publicity whore of the worst kind.

[sophrosyne 0]

Huh! Yeah Dude, Lucifer and Satan are one in the same!

And yes, you are clueless!

Actually, they're not. And if you were a real theologian, you would know that. Of course, that would take years of study, and why waste the time when you can just open your own ministry in a day or two?

Oh, and yes, by the way, I'm ordained as well. Which goes to prove that ANYONE can get an ordination these days. Even you.

[GregNE 0]

Two absolute lies. Not just mistakes, outright lies. I work habd in hand with Jews for Jesus and I know first hand who they are. And and Jew is a Jew no matter what he believes. If your a Jew and you believe NOTHING, are you any less a Jew. If you are a Jew and an athiest are you not still a Jew? A Jew that believes in Jesus is a completed Jew, but a Jew nevertheless. If you mean the are a Christian because they follow Christ, correct, but they are still a Jew. I have never seen such misinformation come out of anyone who obviously know nothing about what they are talking about.

Misinformation? I think you are the one experienced with misinformation. You sure struggle for accuracy, as a proclaimed bibical scholar.

[marjon9 6]

Two absolute lies. Not just mistakes, outright lies. I work habd in hand with Jews for Jesus and I know first hand who they are. And and Jew is a Jew no matter what he believes. If your a Jew and you believe NOTHING, are you any less a Jew. If you are a Jew and an athiest are you not still a Jew? A Jew that believes in Jesus is a completed Jew, but a Jew nevertheless. If you mean the are a Christian because they follow Christ, correct, but they are still a Jew. I have never seen such misinformation come out of anyone who obviously know nothing about what they are talking about.

Ron, are you literally frothing at the mouth right now? Or just figuratively frothing at the mouth. Now that Greg has "outed" you as an anti-semite, you are just about beside yourself.

The fact of the matter is, Ron, there is nothing "natural" to a Jew about Jews for Jesus. The whole idea of it is highly offensive to Jews. Nothing could possibly be more offensive to a Jew than your suggestion that a Jew who believes in Christ is a "completed" Jew. Can you actually not know that?

I'm sure everyone has heard of the saying "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing you did before and expecting a different result." Based on that definition it would be insane for me to have any expectation that Ron would be willing to approach this discussion with anything remotely resembling an open mind. So, I'll move on.

Anyway, I'm late for my "Christians for Islam" meeting.

[To be followed shortly by Ron's frantic, hysterical explanation about why I'm wrong about everything I just said, and why he knows better]

[GregNE 0]

Two absolute lies. Not just mistakes, outright lies. I work habd in hand with Jews for Jesus and I know first hand who they are. And and Jew is a Jew no matter what he believes. If your a Jew and you believe NOTHING, are you any less a Jew. If you are a Jew and an athiest are you not still a Jew? A Jew that believes in Jesus is a completed Jew, but a Jew nevertheless. If you mean the are a Christian because they follow Christ, correct, but they are still a Jew. I have never seen such misinformation come out of anyone who obviously know nothing about what they are talking about.

So, if I am a Christian, and become a Jew, does that mean I am still a Christian. And all Jews virtually all believe in Jesus, just not as their Messiah.

A Jew that believes in Jesus is a completed Jew????? Wow, that is anti-semetic in the extreme. So, the mainstream Jew that believes as the Torah teaches, is not complete. Kind of dehumanizing them, aren't you.

[Wheetsin 714]

Anyway, I'm late for my "Christians for Islam" meeting.

:pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound:

[wavydaby 1]

I think you two have a lot in common, but at least she comes up with some good information sometimes!

This is base and vulgar.

Turn the other cheek

And I am only calling you out on this since you are the only one that tries to say you are a better Christian than anyone else

[sophrosyne 0]

Now that is a stupid statement. As a biblical scholar, you should know that many names and terms we use now were interpretations.

In the Vulgate, an early-5th-century translation of the Bible into Latin by Jerome, Lucifer occurs in Isaiah 14:12-14 as a translation of the Greek word heosphorus ("dawn-bearer"), an epithet of Venus. The original Hebrew text of this verse was הילל בן שחר (heilel ben-schahar), meaning "Helel son of Shahar." Helel was a Babylonian / Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian / Canaanite god named Shahar.

Thanks, Greg. You're restoring my faith in mankind.

This Ron guy is 62 years old, set in his ways, with very limited study. He probably has only read the KJV, and knows nothing of world mythologies or even Gnostic Christianity. Back when he was my age, the misconceptions he's preaching now are what was taken as literal truth by the general congregation.

Even now, the difference between Lucifer and Satan is only starting to penetrate mainstream Christianity. And they have no idea about some of the deeper mysteries, because those are usually taught only in the Monasteries. So what are ya gonna do? LOL!

[anonemouse 1]

So Ron, why don't you become a "completed Christian", and accept Allah as the highest power?

[Wheetsin 714]

I think that Lucifer and Satan were different entities is fairly widely accepted outside of fundamentalist christian circles. Many OT scholars believe it's inaccurate to associate Satan with evil. Heck, even us atheists get that. :kiss

[GregNE 0]

Thanks, Greg. You're restoring my faith in mankind.

This Ron guy is 62 years old, set in his ways, with very limited study. He probably has only read the KJV, and knows nothing of world mythologies or even Gnostic Christianity. Back when he was my age, the misconceptions he's preaching now are what was taken as literal truth by the general congregation.

Even now, the difference between Lucifer and Satan is only starting to penetrate mainstream Christianity. And they have no idea about some of the deeper mysteries, because those are usually taught only in the Monasteries. So what are ya gonna do? LOL!

What brought me into this thread was reading his anti-semetic hate site. His mission to convert Jews to a 'completed state' , where they believe in Jesus!?! How offensive, and worse, he says he is doing them a favor.

He talks about it like you would talk about potty training a child. Oh, and he offers free training materials to other 'Christians' that want to enlighten the Jews they know. C'mon.......it is degrading.

[BJean 16]

I'm glad there was someone with some authority who has jumped in on this and exposed Ron for what he is, an anti-semite.

Ron has gotten away with murder here. His buzz phrases are: you don't know what you're talking about, where did you get this stuff, you are mistaken, you are wrong, you are clueless, you are a fool, where do you get this rubbish, you don't know what you're talking about, and on and on. There literally isn't enough time in the evening left to list them all here.

He has proven that he is biased and rigid and not very bright. Long ago when this thread first began some of us said that he shouldn't be taken seriously, that his mission was to engage in argument since that is his forte. He doesn't care what we believe he just wants to spout off and put others down in an effort to elevate himself.

Well like I said, I have learned a lot here in spite of some of the negativity that has been thrown in. So maybe Ron ain't such a bad thing afterall. He's caused many of you to seem incredibly brilliant by comparison.

[Wheetsin 714]

I posted this a while ago. You may enjoy.

Underhanded tactics trick unsuspecting Jews into joining a Christian movement.

No matter how disconnected a Jew may be from Judaism, he is still likely to be appalled by the idea of worshipping Jesus. And that poses a great dilemma for Christian missionaries seeking to convert Jews.

Given this problem, some missionaries got the idea to try a backdoor tactic. They invented "Jews for Jesus," which uses a whole lexicon of Jewish-sounding buzz words in order to make Jesus more palatable to Jews. For example:

• Members of Jews for Jesus don't go to church, they go to a "Messianic Synagogue."
  
• Prayer is not held on Sunday, but on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath.
  
• They say that by accepting Jesus as Messiah, you're not converting to Christianity, you're instead becoming "a fulfilled Jew."
  
• The New Testament is called Brit Chadasha</I> (Hebrew for "New Covenant").
  
• It's not the cross, it's "the tree."
  
• It's not baptism, but immersing in a mikveh</I>.
  
• It's not a communion wafer, but matzah</I>.
  
• Congregants wear a tallit and kipa, and bring a Torah scroll out of the Holy Ark -- just like every other synagogue. After all, they proudly proclaim, Jesus himself was a Jew!

MEDIA TACTICS

Their missionary campaigns are well-funded and relentless. The Jews for Jesus organization has spent millions of dollars in print and radio advertising, and has run a campaign of banner ads in New York City subways and on major web sites. If you see one of these ads, you should write a letter of protest to the host organization.

It is the responsibility of all Jews to take a stand.

Joan Rivers started screaming on the air after a commercial for Jews for Jesus aired on her radio show.

Comedienne Joan Rivers started screaming on the air after a commercial for Jews for Jesus aired on her radio show. The ad featured two Jewish men arguing over whether Jesus is the Jewish messiah, while the Jewish song Hava Nagillah played in the background. "Do not proselytize on my show," Rivers ranted. "I was born a Jew and I plan to die a Jew. How dare you advertise on my show. I find this disgusting, I find this offensive, and I find this ridiculous!"

THE REAL MESSIANIC JEWS

Jews for Jesus is a subversive organization. The missionaries' approach to ensnare unsuspecting people includes quoting Torah verses out of context and gross mis-translations.

These deceptions are most successful with Jews who have no knowledge of their own Jewish heritage.

These deceptions are most successful with Jews who have no knowledge of their own Jewish heritage. In Russia, for example, where Jewish education had been suppressed for 70 years, missionaries sponsor "Jewish revival meetings," where a tallit-clad clergyman asks throngs of unsuspecting Russian Jews to "accept Jesus into your heart."

The sad thing is that tens of thousands of Jews (including an estimated 50,000 in Israel today) have fallen for this falsehood.

Ironically, Jews really could be called "Messianic Jews." One of Maimonides' classical "13 Principles of Faith" is:

I believe with complete faith in the coming of the Messiah, and even though he may delay, nevertheless I anticipate every day that he will come.

There are two excellent organizations which counteract missionary activities and have succeeded in attracting "converts" back to Judaism. You can find them online at www.jewsforjudaism.org and http://www.outreachjudaism.org.

[BJean 16]

Big kudos to Greg, sophrosyne and Wheetsin for doing some serious "outing" here.