Anti-Semitism In France!

[Carlene 12]

I know, and I also know that I am not in a position to second guess his decisions either.

You are comfortable telling a large percentage of your fellow Christians that they are going to hell but you don't feel qualified to "second guess" George Bush?

There is something terribly flawed in your logic.

[Wheetsin 714]

I am not in a position to second guess his decisions either.

Do you believe that the general public should sit and just "accept" whatever the president does, just because that person has that title?

[Carlene 12]

And the point is ??? If the apocrypha is supect regarding weather or not it is inspired, it might as well be considered fantacy. I don't know or care if it was included as additional reading material up to 120 years ago, the point is that they were not considered inspired by the early church and they are not now by the Christian church with the exception of the Catholic church.

I personally do not know of any Protestant denominations that only accept the KJV. Can you tell me who they are? You can't say that the apocrypha today is not a Catholic thing, because the Catholic church is the only church that insists it is inspired and of equal authority with the rest of scripture. It is a certainty that these writings were never considered inspired by Jewish theologians either, then or now.

This appears to be something you copied from some website, but I think some of it's content is suspect. Can you give me the website it came from??

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/pre-reformation.html and by the way, it's an anit-Catholic site. I deliberately chose a source that would not be "slanted" toward my faith, although I left out the author's nasty comments about Catholicism.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

All of this is just opinion, and you are entitled to your. I think it all a bunch of hogwash, but that's just me.

However, the world was never built up by man the way it is now. That is a fact.

There was never 6.5 billion people, like there is now. That is a fact.

When was the last Global Warming of this magnitude? How many years before the Earth was created as per the Bible (which indicates a 6,000 year old Earth)? That is a fact.

How do you move New York City and its 8,000,000 people? That is a question

Much of NYC is only about 16 to 20 feet above sea level. That is a fact.

A 23 foot increase in sea level and goodbye much of Florida, Washington DC and NY, Boston, etc. That is a fact.

The USA's economy would never recover in my lifetime or the lifetime of my children. That is my opinion .

How about India, Bangladesh, and so many other countries (I do not even feel like spell checking them)? That is a question.

There is a direct correlation between the temperature rise and the CO2 rise. That is a fact. You can dispute whether it is a causal relationship, but there is a relationship.

What do we have to lose by cutting down on CO2? What do we have to lose by cutting US dependence on Middle-East oil? That is a question.

You will not wager your soul, why wager your life, your children's lives and your grandchildren's lives? That is a question.

[paladin 0]

God is sitting in Heaven when a scientist says to Him, "Lord, we don't need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of nothing. In other words, we can now do what you did in the 'beginning.'"

"Oh, is that so? Tell me..." replies God.

"Well, " says the scientist, "we can take dirt and form it into the likeness of You and breathe life into it, thus creating man."

"Well, that's interesting. Show Me."

So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil.

"Oh no, no, no..." interrupts God,

( I love this)

"Get your own dirt."

[paladin 0]

BTW, the Spell Check feature will only work if you download spell check before using the "check mark". I for one, could not live without it.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Spellcheck is in the upper-right hand corner of the screen as you reply to a message.

I don't have that spell-check ican on reply screen.

I wonder if it is because I am using Firefox on a Linux operating system.:faint:

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

BTW, the Spell Check feature will only work if you download spell check before using the "check mark". I for one, could not live without it.

How do you do that?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

God is sitting in Heaven when a scientist says to Him, "Lord, we don't need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of nothing. In other words, we can now do what you did in the 'beginning.'"

"Oh, is that so? Tell me..." replies God.

"Well, " says the scientist, "we can take dirt and form it into the likeness of You and breathe life into it, thus creating man."

"Well, that's interesting. Show Me."

So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil.

"Oh no, no, no..." interrupts God,

( I love this)

"Get your own dirt."

What is God sitting on? He has no butt.

[Carlene 12]

And the point is ???

My point is that the Bible has been translated, interpreted, reinterpreted, translated again - all by human beings subject to error and personal belief and the conventions of their time - to the point that nobody knows what the original manuscripts may have said.

First of all, there's the Old Testament. It's part of the Bible. But according to those who interpret it literally, the Old Testament doesn't apply to them. Then what's it doing in an "infallible" rule book for the human race? Why bother with it at all? Maybe because we don't want to follow all those dietary laws. But we like the Ten Commandments, so we'll keep them. And the story of creation, of course.

Then there are the New Testament passages that don't support a lot of Christian beliefs. Divorce? Not allowed, per the New Testament. Anyone in your church been divorced, Ron? How about slavery? "Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior." (Titus 2:9-10)

There is, of course, much more. Women must cover their heads when they pray. Men must not grow their hair long (but women should). Wives are to be submissive and women are prohibited from being "teachers" (ministers).

"If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out". (A good part of America would soon be blind.)

"If thine hand offends thee, cut it off". (And one-handed.)

And don't give me that lame old argument about "context". Either the Bible is literally, completely, true or it isn't.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

You keep telling me my Biblical beliefs are all wrong, and I am still waiting for you to tell me what yours are and what YOU base them on. You are real good at avoiding this.

Your Biblical beliefs are fine with me. Just stop telling people that your beliefs are the only allowable beliefs and that their beliefs are inferior to yours.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Why not? It's certainly been done before.

The earliest scripture is generally considered to be the “Pentateuch”, the first five books of the Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, & Deuteronomy… though there is some scholarly evidence to indicate that the Old Testament Book of Job may actually be the oldest book in the Bible. These writings were passed down from generation to generation for thousands of years.

By approximately500 BC, the 39 Books that make up the Old Testament were completed, and continued to be preserved in Hebrew on scrolls. As we approach the last few centuries before Christ, the Jewish historical books known as the “Apocrypha” were completed, yet they were recorded in Greek rather than Hebrew. By the end of the First Century AD, the New Testament had been completed.

The oldest copies of the New Testament known to exist today are: The Codex Alexandrius and the Codex Sinaiticus in the British Museum Library in London, and the Codex Vaticanus in the Vatican. They date back to approximately the 300’s AD. In 315 AD, Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identified the 27 Books which we recognize today as the canon of New Testament scripture.

In 382 AD, the early church father Jerome translated the New Testament from its original Greek into Latin. This translation became known as the “Latin Vulgate”, (“Vulgate” meaning “vulgar” or “common”). He put a note next to the Apocrypha Books, stating that he did not know whether or not they were inspired scripture, or just Jewish historical writings which accompanied the Old Testament.

The Apocrypha was kept as part of virtually every Bible scribed or printed from these early days until just 120 years ago, in the mid-1880’s, when it was removed from Protestant Bibles. Up until the 1880’s, however, every Christian… Protestant or otherwise… embraced the Apocrypha as part of the Bible, though debate continued as to whether or not the Apocrypha was inspired. There is no truth to the popular myth that there is something “Roman Catholic” about the Apocrypha, which stemmed from the fact that the Roman Catholics kept 12 of the 14 Apocrypha Books in their Bible, as the Protestants removed all of them. No real justification was ever given for the removal of these ancient Jewish writings from before the time of Christ, which had remained untouched and part of every Bible for nearly two thousand years.

The first hand-written English language Bible was produced in the 1380’s by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian.

The invention of the printing press in the 1450’s made the Bible widely available to lay people.

In 1496, John Colet, another Oxford professor and the son of the Mayor of London, started reading the New Testament in Greek and translating it into English for his students at Oxford, and later for the public at Saint Paul’s Cathedral in London.

In 1516 the scholar Erasmus published a Greek translation of the New Testament. This milestone was the first non-Latin Vulgate text of the scripture to be produced in a millennium… and the first ever to come off a printing press.

Martin Luther translated the New Testament into German from Erasmus Greek-Latin text and eventually went on to publish an entire Bible in German in the 1530’s.

William Tyndale wanted to use the same 1516 Erasmus text as a source to translate and print the New Testament in English for the first time in history. Tyndale showed up on Luther's doorstep in Germany in 1525, and by year's end had translated the New Testament into English. The first complete English Bible was printed on October 4, 1535, and is known as the Coverdale Bible.

John Rogers went on to print the second complete English Bible in 1537. It is a composite made up of Tyndale's Pentateuch and New Testament (1534-1535 edition) and Coverdale's Bible and some of Roger's own translation of the text. It remains known most commonly as the Matthew-Tyndale Bible.

In 1539 the Archbishop of Canterbury hired Myles Coverdale to publish King Henry VIII’s “Great Bible”. It became the first English Bible authorized for public use.

In the 1550's, the Church at Geneva, Switzerland, was very sympathetic to the Protestant reformers. Many of them met in Geneva, and under the protection of John Calvin, the Church of Geneva determined to produce their own Bible. Their New Testament was completed in 1557 and the complete Bible was first published in 1560. It became known as the Geneva Bible. The Geneva Bible became the Bible of choice for over 100 years of English speaking Christians. Between 1560and1644 at least 144 editions of this Bible were published.

In 1568, a revision of the Great Bible known as the Bishop's Bible was introduced. Despite 19 editions being printed between 1568 and 1606, this Bible, referred to as the “rough draft of the King James Version”, never gained much of a foothold of popularity among the people.

With the death of Queen Elizabeth I, Prince James VI of Scotland became King James I of England. The Protestant clergy approached the new King in 1604 and announced their desire for a new translation to replace the Bishop's Bible.

This "translation to end all translations" (for a while at least) was the result of the combined effort of about fifty scholars. In 1611 the first version of the King James Bible was published.

The Anglican Church’s King James Bible took decades to overcome the more popular Protestant Church’s Geneva Bible. One of the greatest ironies of history, is that many Protestant Christian churches today embrace the King James Bible exclusively as the “only” legitimate English language translation… yet it is not even a Protestant translation! It was printed to compete with the Protestant Geneva Bible, by authorities who throughout most of history were hostile to Protestants… and killed them. Throughout the 1600’s, as the Puritans and the Pilgrims fled the religious persecution of England to cross the Atlantic and start a new free nation in America, they took with them their precious Geneva Bible, and rejected the King’s Bible. America was founded upon the Geneva Bible, not the King James Bible.

Unless each of these English Bibles says exactly the same thing, they all can not be literal. Even if they did all say the same thing, it doesn't mean that they are correct or literal.

Translation is more an art than a science. But that should make the anti-science people happy.

I was always amazed at how Liberal became a dirty word. I remember on my union job, how Conservative Republican coworkers would call me Liberal just before going on their 2 week vacation that they were able to afford by making double-time for overtime after 4 hours of time and a half overtime.

Now, I am seeing science changing into a dirty word.

When I write about BuSh, even if I only print what he actually said (and which can be looked up), I am told I am BuSh bashing.

And invariably the protests come from people who read the Bible and take it to be word for word correct, except when context is needed to make their argument correct. Instead of context, politicians now use the word "spin". So I guess one could say the Bible is literal except when it needs spinning to make it fit.

Well, this dirty Liberal is going to bed. I will say a pray before going to bed, asking Jesus to stop people from using his name in very unchristian ways. He of course will ignore my request, because his father gave us free will 4 thousand years before Jesus was born.

I wish I had a spell checker built in to this forum.

Oh, before I go to bed, I just want to tell you of a horrible thought I just had. “Someone smears this thread with vulgarities and Ron unthinkingly deletes the first post, dropping his post count from about 657 to 5.”

[Ron Cusano 0]

I don't pretend to know what is in the mans heart or the factors involved with the capital punishment issues in Texas during his term as Gov. I "believe" he is sincere in his beliefs and is true to his heart in his decisions. I can only judge what I know, not what I guess at.

As fas as anyone going to Hell; I KNOW that without trusting Jesus as your sin offering, you will go to HELL! I don't have to guess at that because I know the facts. Don't confuse politics and the Lord! That is flawed logic!!!

You are comfortable telling a large percentage of your fellow Christians that they are going to hell but you don't feel qualified to "second guess" George Bush?

There is something terribly flawed in your logic.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Your opinions about the Bible and faith are very suspect and have little credibility as far as I am concerned! You as so quick to find fault, but time after time refuse to tell us your beliefs or where they come from. On what basis are YOU making judgements when you don't even have the conviction to express what YOU are all about. That is as hypicritical as it can be. How about YOU getting honest here!!!

Unless each of these English Bibles says exactly the same thing, they all can not be literal. Even if they did all say the same thing, it doesn't mean that they are correct or literal.

Translation is more an art than a science. But that should make the anti-science people happy.

I was always amazed at how Liberal became a dirty word. I remember on my union job, how Conservative Republican coworkers would call me Liberal just before going on their 2 week vacation that they were able to afford by making double-time for overtime after 4 hours of time and a half overtime.

Now, I am seeing science changing into a dirty word.

When I write about BuSh, even if I only print what he actually said (and which can be looked up), I am told I am BuSh bashing.

And invariably the protests come from people who read the Bible and take it to be word for word correct, except when context is needed to make their argument correct. Instead of context, politicians now use the word "spin". So I guess one could say the Bible is literal except when it needs spinning to make it fit.

Well, this dirty Liberal is going to bed. I will say a pray before going to bed, asking Jesus to stop people from using his name in very unchristian ways. He of course will ignore my request, because his father gave us free will 4 thousand years before Jesus was born.

I wish I had a spell checker built in to this forum.

Oh, before I go to bed, I just want to tell you of a horrible thought I just had. “Someone smears this thread with vulgarities and Ron unthinkingly deletes the first post, dropping his post count from about 657 to 5.”

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I don't pretend to know what is in the mans heart or the factors involved with the capital punishment issues in Texas during his term as Gov. I "believe" he is sincere in his beliefs and is true to his heart in his decisions. I can only judge what I know, not what I guess at.

What reasons to you have for your belief that BuSh is sincere? Because he is a self-professed Christian?

As fas as anyone going to Hell; I KNOW that without trusting Jesus as your sin offering, you will go to HELL! I don't have to guess at that because I know the facts. Don't confuse politics and the Lord! That is flawed logic!!!

No, you think that without trusting Jesus as your sin offering, you will go to HELL!

You do not know it. Because some book says it, doesn't mean it is true. I have faith it is true and so do you, but you confuse faith with knowledge.