Anti-Semitism In France!

[TommyO 5]

In an earlier post I mentioned that even though it is ascerted that God made man in his own image I believed that the opposite is true, Man creates God in his image. I don't want to offend anyone but I think that this is an interesting concept especially if you apply it on an individual basis. For every person who believes in God there is a seperate God who really is the mirror image of them, except this God is an omnipotant version of themselves.

When you define your God you are defining yourself, or at least your supreme self. This supreme self may not be perfect to the world but a representation of your vision of who, what and how a supreme being might look, act and behave.

When someone describes their vision of God I believe they are telling me much more about who they are or who they would aspire to be. If your God is a more kind and gentle God there is a good chance you are as well Individuals who are very black and white tend to view God as a rule maker. The more conservative or Liberal the person the more conservative or liberal their God.

Even those who are Athiests who choose to not believe in God as I do tell agreat deal about who they are when they explain their rational for not believing.

So tell me about your God!!

P.S.

Refering to me as TOM or refering to T_O_M as Tommy does not offend me at all, as they say "You can call me TOM or you can call me Tommy, just don't call me late to dinner"

P.S.S.

I don't believe in God but if I did he would have a great sense of humour

[Carlene 12]

Ron, I know you get mightly offended when anyone mentions your misspelled words (no one seems to mention some of your major grammatical errors), but we sincerely want to read what you have to say. It is sometimes very difficult to wade through one of your posts, possibly because you don't have a lot of time and can't re-read what you've typed before you post it. But we really aren't out to get you. It is awfully hard to be sure that we understand what you are saying. It shouldn't be surprising that we need a clarafication from time to time. Please bear with us.

Just for the record, I wasn't pointing out a misspelling, or at least I didn't think I was. I wouldn't do that (generally speaking - although I did once, in another thread). "Clinerary" is not a misspelling of "Plenary". It's a whole other word (not a word, actually). It sounded to me like someone who remembered hearing/reading something that might cast a negative light on the practice of Catholicism, so he thought he'd throw it out, just for the sake of argument.

If you are going to accuse a person, or a body of persons, of something, you should at least research it a little bit. If you can't even come close to the correct terminology, you have no business citing it as "fact".

[BJean 16]

You may have missed an earlier series of posts, Carlene, wherein lots of people jumped on the bandwagon about the difficulty of reading some of Ron's posts. He has arthritis and we are all sorry to hear that. (I have bad arthritis too, and believe me I have sympathy for anyone who suffers from it.)

I guess I was just trying to circumvent the whole "you're attacking poor arthritic me" thing that happened earlier on this thread. I reckon I was also voicing my irritation that someone takes an affront to another person who is trying to understand what they are wanting to convey. We ALL mispell words! And we all try not to by re-reading our posts first before pushing the "post" button. At least I think we do.

[BJean 16]

TommyO: Very interesting observations and I am very glad that you shared them with us. Makes a whole lotta sense~!

[Carlene 12]

In an earlier post I mentioned that even though it is ascerted that God made man in his own image I believed that th opposite is true, Man creates God in his image. I don't want to offend anyone but I think that this is an interesting concept especially if you apply it on an individual basis. For every person who believes in God there is a seperate God who really is the mirror image of them except this God is an omnipotant version of them.

When you define your God you are defining yourself, or at least your supreme self. This supreme self may not be perfect to the world but a representation of your vision of who, what and how a supreme being might look, act and behave.

When someone describes their vision of God I believe they are telling me much more about who they are or who they would aspire to be. If your God is a more kind and gentle God there is a good chance you are as well Individuals who are very black and white tend to view God as a rule maker. The more conservative or Liberal the person the more conservative or liberal their God.

Even those who are Athiests who choose to not believe in God as I do tell agreat deal about who they are when they explain their rational for not believing.

So tell me about your God!!

P.S.

Refering to me as TOM or refering to T_O_M as Tommy does not offend me at all, as they say "You can call TOM or you can call me Tommy, just don't call me late to dinner"

P.S.S.

I don't believe in God but if I did he would have a great sense of humour

A very interesting perspective, Tommy. My God is both all-powerful and all-loving. He is quick to forgive and slow to anger. He does not nit pick. There is no need to, as he knows what is in my heart.

My God paints with a broad brush. Follow the 10 Commandments and you can't possibly go wrong. Strive to be what you know God desires, but don't wear a hair shirt and flog yourself every time you fall short. More importantly, don't be judging other people - their actions, their beliefs, or their state of Grace. That is presumptuous and not pleasing to God.

PS....I have a particular fondness for the name "Tommy". It is what we have always called my oldest son, although he now prefers "Thomas". But I don't care. I'm the mom, so I still get to call him Tommy.

[Carlene 12]

By the way, have you ever seen me say anything about being charismatic, which I am not, or Untra-Conservative for that matter??? Where do you get that stuff from??

I should have said "Fundamentalist", rather than "Charismatic". My mistake. But you did accuse the vast majority of American Christians of being liberal, and you did say they had "strayed from biblical truth", so yes....I would say that you have indicated an ultra-conservative point of view.

[TommyO 5]

Carlene, I have always liked your God, along with the Gods of a number of the other folks who have participated in this thread. This thread has reminded me of how good many Christians really are. In the past I often found people who claim to be religious to be very close minded right wing conservatives who seemed to me to be filled with hate and not the Holy Spirit. On this thread I have been pleased to have been proven wrong in many of my assumptions. I have been reminded that there are a lot of good Christians out there who very much deserve my respect and admiration.

A long time ago before I was married I had a knock on my door and when I answerred it I met a couple of Jehovas Witnesses, I invited them in and we had a grand discussion. As we spoke I told them how much I admirred their conviction. The thought that they were able to go out and knock on doors in an attempt to save people from eternal dammnation impressed me. There are very few people in this world who have that level of commitment. I also told them that I had three Aunts who were Nuns and they too had the same commitment to their faith. I then said that the thing that sadens me is that if I am to believe either side I must come to terms with the fact Someone was burning in hell and that both groups, based on their beliefs could not possibly end up in heaven.

As an individual who was raised Catholic I coud never come to terms with the idea that there was one true religion. That is likely the main reason I decided that God does not truly exist. For my God to exist He/She would be required to be much smarter than that.

So I like your God and I like T_O_M's God and I like some of the other Gods I have been introduced to on this thread, I am not ready to believe in them at this point but I can and do live by most, if not all of what they stand for.

I also like the name Tommy, all my life the people who have been closest to me have called me Tommy, at 47 I may now be a little old for such a youthfull moniker but when I meet and old freind and they address me as Tommy I feel young again. Thomas is a great name ( My Mother had great forsight naming me after Doubting Thomas) but Tommy is reserved for the closest people in a Tom's lfe like old best friends and Mom's

Cheers

TommyO

[green 6]

Yep, I agree with my fellow Canuck. Although I am a non-believer I have been greatly heartened by the goodness of many of the believers whom I have met on this thread. And like TommyO, I have been spooked by those who are close-minded ultra-right wing Conservatives.

[stac1982 0]

Wow . . .I can't believe this is still going on. When I first signed on, y'all were arguing over this and now weeks later you still are. . .I am a Christian and it really turned me off from this board as a whole. Remember as you all are going back and forth, there are others reading this. Some maybe just like me and be disguested by it all. I have found support else where, but others may not know where to look and may never get the support they need. Just something to think about.

Stacey

[TommyO 5]

It's great you were able to find support elsewhere, I can understand how people expressing their opinions would disgust you. It is often easier to never challenge your beliefs and participating in a forum such as this requires a thick skin at times and some depth of character.

Ta Ta

[stac1982 0]

Therer is a huge difference in challenging beliefs and being mean to people. . .my skin is plenty thick and character extremely deep which is why I can search for support else where. I was simply expressing how you all may come across to others. For you to imply that my character is not deep enough to participate in this forum is nothing short of hateful and rude. Nothing said on this board has "hurt my feelings". I just wanted to remind you all that others are reading this and it may turn people off and they may not get the support they need. Remember the old saying when you point fingers, there three more pointing back at you. . . arguing about issues and belittling people in no way shows a "think skin and depth of character.

Stacey

[lisah25 3]

You are so concerned about liberal social issues that you are losing site of what is most important, you salvation on Gods terms, not yours.

Huh, I think Jesus was quite concerned with social issues as well. His stance on them, some might call liberal.

[anonemouse 1]

Wow . . .I can't believe this is still going on. When I first signed on, y'all were arguing over this and now weeks later you still are. . .I am a Christian and it really turned me off from this board as a whole. Remember as you all are going back and forth, there are others reading this. Some maybe just like me and be disguested by it all.

I am going to be honests in this reply, and I don't want you to think I am trying to attack you, because I honestly am not trying to. That said, to be honest, I am not sure why people, especially Christians, react with disgust towards this thread. This is one thread out of hundreds on this board. Letting one thread out of hundreds run you (generic you, not anyone in particular) off indicates a need to grow up and get a thicker skin, in my opinion. Religion seems to be one area where a lot of people think criticism is off limits, but only for their religion. In other words, they like to be critical of the beliefs of others', but when someone brings up their beliefs, they say, "Whoa, now. No need for this to get personal."

I also have to ask whether you are disgusted by everyone that has taken part in this thread, or just those of us who objected to Ron.

[TommyO 5]

You cannot speak for others, you speak for yourself. Speaking for others would imply that you had some ability to read the minds of others. You can pretend that you are speaking on behalf of others but it is best to be honest and admit that you are expressing your opinion.

So when you say that we digust you I should be able to disaprove of that statement and return the volly in kind.

Here is something to think about, when you decide to speak ill of people at least have the courage to take ownership of you statements.

I speak for no one but myself

[stac1982 0]

I never said I was speaking for others. . . but as I read other post I see more and more just plain meaness and I am not the only one who has noticed this. . . Y'all enjoy your arguement with out thinking about others and how they may see y'all. I will go back to band2gether and get support and love from all. Have fun arguing and not supporting each other.

And Lauend. . .I NEVER specified who disgusted me because it all does. In fact I am more disgusted with those who claim to know the love of Christ but can be so mean and condeming to people.

And Tommy you sure seemed to be speaking for me or about me for that matter when you implied that I had no depth of character. I have plenty of courage to speak my mind (eg making this post)

Enjoy your arguing