Anti-Semitism In France!

[Ron Cusano 0]

In those times, there was volentary indenture where a person could volentarily place themselves into the role of servant to repay a debt or because the "master" could provide a better life for them and their family than they could otherwise have. It was not the forced role of a slave, such as we saw in our country.

The whole point of the "slave" discussion is that these references in the Bible could never be used to support forced slavery when our country was formed. If some took them to mean so, they did it in error. God does not condon one person owning another.

Now I am confused. You said the NT didn't mention slaves, but Servants. I found several NT references to slaves, from the NIV.

Then I read your post about it really meaning servants, and that a servant was different then a slave. So I went to the KJ version, looked for servant, and found what I posted. Which describes the position of "servant" much like we think of slavery.

So what am I missing?:help:

[Ron Cusano 0]

The NIV is a good translation in most instances. The King James has always been the "gold standard" used in most seminaries. There is a new version called the New American Standard Version I believe, with is supposed to be the best literal translation into modern day english thus far.

In my personal studies I use several translations, and if there seems to a question of translation of a word, I go back the the Strongs Concordance, which is like a dictionary, that gives the literal translations of every single word in the Bible from the original Hebrew and Greek. Every serious Bible student should have one.

So you don't accept the NIV?

And what translation would use the word "master" instead of slave or servant?

[wavydaby 1]

According to what I have read, the word that was translated "slave" is the same as what was translated in to servant later. Oh and here is a couple of translations of Colossians 4:1

NASB: Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. (NASB ©1995)

GWT: Slaves, always obey your earthly masters. Don't obey them only while you're being watched, as if you merely wanted to please people. Be sincere in your motives out of respect for your real master. (GOD'S WORD®)

KJV: Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

In an apparent attempt to disguise the practice of slavery, some translations in the Bible translate the word slave (doulos in Greek) as servant

[wavydaby 1]

The NIV is a good translation in most instances. The King James has always been the "gold standard" used in most seminaries.

So, NIV is good until we disagree with you.

Oh and the KJV is NOT used in Catholic seminaries... but its ok, because you think Catholics take everything out of context anyway.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I will go a step further and say that Catholics are allogorical concerning theology, do not take the Bible literally and I think their church laws are serroously in error. And I came from a Catholic background. But, that is just my opinion.

If you think that all the major translations of the Bible got together and conspired to conceal slavery, so that everyone would think it's OK, well, you just go one believing that!

So, NIV is good until we disagree with you.

Oh and the KJV is NOT used in Catholic seminaries... but its ok, because you think Catholics take everything out of context anyway.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Oh I know! The pharaphrased Catholic Bible is the only translations the Catholic Church uses in seminary, and yet, strangely enough, the recognize the King James Translation as accurate. Go figure!

So, NIV is good until we disagree with you.

Oh and the KJV is NOT used in Catholic seminaries... but its ok, because you think Catholics take everything out of context anyway.

[wavydaby 1]

Ok, so go back to page 115 and answer Wheet's questions.

[wavydaby 1]

Ok, so no birth control is not a literal pulling of something out of the bible for Catholics?

So Celebrate Priests are not a literal pulling of something out of the bible?

Paraphrasing Catholics?

Sounds like someone didnt like the constraints of the laws of the Catholic Church and decided to go elsewhere, to somewhere easier.

I am by no means a perfect Catholic, but I am not about to go somewhere else to ease my conscience in a church that says, 'Its ok, they were wrong".

Yes, I there are things that I dont agree, with birth control being the biggie, but I will take it up with God when I get there. And if my 15 years on the pill is enough to send me to hell, well, its my fault, The Church told me what to do.

[TommyO 5]

Once again the ugly face of prejudice and intolerance rears it's ugly head. Talk in cricles all you want you still continue to convince me that you are a very intolerant person. I know it's not you it's the bible, that book that inteprets itself but only to you.

Could all the Catholics please refrain from practising their beliefs and all the Gay folks be happy with your deminished status.

Like I said if that's heaven I prefer Hell, see you there

[Ron Cusano 0]

You see a big difference between a circle and a sphere??

If literal is the only interpretation of the bible, then:

IS 40:22. The earth is a circle. You believe the earth is a circle, and not a sphere?

GE 7:19-20. The flood covered the earth with Water fifteen cubits (that's more than twenty feet) above the highest mountains. Breaking that out, that's a rain rate of 6 inches per minute required to cover the entire earth with an ocean 5 miles deep. 5 miles deep would be required to have placed Mt. Everest (at its last current height, let alone it's height that long ago) under 20 feet of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Where did all the water go? How come we see no geological signs of a worldwide flood, only isolated floodings? How did the author know the depth of the water?? Since the book is devinely inspired, I would assume God provided the information! Why is there no "no geological signs of a worldwide flood"?? There is plenty of it out there! You just haven't looked. Where did all the water go? Whereever it came from in the first place. I assume the atmosphere!

GE 32:24-30. God wrestles Jacob and wins by injuring Jacob's hip. You believe god wrestles? I believe the physical manifestation of the Lord, which is what Jacob encountered did!

LE 11:6. You believe rabbits chew cud? Chewing the cud envolves bringing back up what had been swallowed, and chewing it again. As someone who has owned a farm and raised rabbits, I can tell you first hand that is true. Eh, have YOU raised any rabbits??

LE 14:33-57. You believe that houses can have leprosy, and that the cure for this requires the blood of a bird? We know that horses and armidillos can get leprocy, so if the Bible said it occured in horses thousands of years ago, I can accept that. It was the act of obedience in performing the cleansing ritural that effected the cure, rather the the cure being in the blood. The Mosiac Law was full of these types of rituals.

"Ehud ... took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt came out." You believe this literally happened? Give he the chapter and verse so I can check the meaning of the word you say is translated "dirt"!

2CH 7:5, 8-9. Solomon sacrificed 22k oxen and 120k in one week. That breaks out to more than 14 animals per minute (something like 4 seconds per animal), for seven straight days. You believe this happened? Of course it happeded! Do you see anywhere where King Solomon did the actual slaying of the animals himself! Solomon was not of the priesthood, and only the temple priests were allowed to perform sacrifices. If you actually KNEW the scriptures instead of pull verses out of context to try to prove me wrong, you would have known that!

IS 30:26. The moon will someday be as bright as the sun now is. So you believe that a dead planet will once again come to life?

I do, and in "the Day of the Lord", much stranger things that this will occur.

[Ron Cusano 0]

First of all, the priesthood ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. The Catholic priesthood is a matter of Catholic church law and not biblical.

The reason I left the Catholic church is because when I started to study the Bible and saw the difference between what the Bible taught and what the Catholic church taught, I could not in good conscience remain there.

Ok, so no birth control is not a literal pulling of something out of the bible for Catholics?

So Celebrate Priests are not a literal pulling of something out of the bible?

Paraphrasing Catholics?

Sounds like someone didnt like the constraints of the laws of the Catholic Church and decided to go elsewhere, to somewhere easier.

I am by no means a perfect Catholic, but I am not about to go somewhere else to ease my conscience in a church that says, 'Its ok, they were wrong".

Yes, I there are things that I dont agree, with birth control being the biggie, but I will take it up with God when I get there. And if my 15 years on the pill is enough to send me to hell, well, its my fault, The Church told me what to do.

[wavydaby 1]

Ok, like what pray tell does the church preach that is so unconscionable? Oh wait.. its the whole Pope thing?

Please. Every group of churchs has a leadership that tells those churchs what to do.

And where do you get that the priesthood is not biblical?

That is saying that a minister is not biblical

[wavydaby 1]

Oh and scientifically a circle is 2-d and a sphere is the 3-d round object. So yes, when I look at a sphere I can see a circle, but if I look at a circle, I can not see a sphere.

[rtgirl77 0]

That was a very nice post. You will not be belittled or held in contempt for being a freak or fanatic here. Many other Christians, both Conservative and Liberal, have debated with Ron as have atheists and agnostics. Ron has brought together every stripe of human life (of the LBT members who post here) except for a few, but not in fellowship, but against his pushiness and self-righteousness. Even some members who normally lean toward his side have pushed back from his statements. Self-described Conservative Christians have found fault with Ron's demeanor.

Maybe if Ron had posted the Beatitudes of Jesus instead of his Christian Right approach, he would have brought us together in a spirit of love for him, rather than a war against his technique.

Hey, don't sign me up for Sainthood just yet:) There are so many times that I am anything but kind and meekness is something that doesn't come naturally for me at all. But, through life's experiences, I have seen what I believe to be God's hand, and I can't forget that. I have never seen a person be reached through shouting, bible waiving and condemnation. I believe a better way to reach people is to allow God to use my life as a testament. Kind of the old "walk the walk vs. talking the talk". Its really hard to live the life but its really easy to spout "intellectual" facts. I'm not dogging anyone out but lets face it, there are people who will argue a point until the proverbial horse is long since dead and they just want to be right! Its not about concern for the other person's salvation, its about being right and proving a point!

With that said, I'll share two things with the board that have caused me to both see the light, so to speak but also to have a little more tolerance. I have several gay friends. They aren't aquaintences. They are genuine have dinner-together, share our secrets, friends. Do I interpret the Bible to say that homosexuality is ok? Absolutely not! But, what I do believe it says, is "Love your neighbor as yourself". I know my friends to be beautiful, generous caring people who give of their time to help the less fortunate, who take care of sick kids as if they were their own (we work in a hospital) and who have been friends who truly cared about my wellbeing. I haven't walked in their shoes and I don't know how it feels to be overcome with a feeling of love for someone of the same sex. So, do I preach at my friends, citing verse after verse where it says "man should not lay next to man"? Nope. We don't discuss their sex lives or mine. We discuss work, current events and life in general. I realize that it would be futile to attempt to convince them that their love is wrong. I will leave that up to God. I do, however, pray that God will do his will in their lives and that they will be open to his voice. I want the best for them and I realize that God's will is what's best but I don't profess to know what God's will is, because I'm not God.

I married a wonderful, educated, articulate man who loves me and would give me the world. He's a great father to our kids and a much better father to our children than my dad ever was to me. BUT, my dad hates him with a blinding rage! Why? Because he's black and of course, nice christian, wealthy white girls don't marry black boys.

We have been married now for 10 years (this week) and he still cannot move past this. He would give up his relationship with me to foster his pure bigotry. I didn't fall in love with a "black man", I fell in love with my husband! For the first time in my life, I truly saw the man of my dreams and not his color. I'd imagine thats sorta how it feels to be gay. TO see the person inside and not the gender. I'm not saying its right, I'm saying it has to be hard and I have compassion. I realize these are different situations and that the bible specifically speaks of homosexuality being wrong and doesn't speak of interracial marriage being wrong, I'm just saying I can see how it could happen.

Secondly, my sister is a drug addict. She's been at the bottom of every bottom. She has been the victim of sexual assault, attempted murder, and theft. She has stolen from our family and pawned everything she owns. I had so much contempt for her and I literally HATED her with a seering hate that really can't be described. I watched her fall down on her knees and beg God to please deliver her from her addiction time after time. I rolled my eyes and thought she was ridiculous. I was conviced she'd never change. Then one day, she overdosed on a stolen morphine prescription. She didn't touch drugs for a year after that day. I believe God has a purpose for her and he has kept her alive for a reason. I fought with her, I cut her out of my life, I belittled her and I spewed forth my hate. None of that changed her. I was powerless. I believe God finally delivered her as she had asked so many times. If there was anything that a human could do, I tried but I wasn't successful because I'm not God. Today, she is a kind, generous and grateful woman who is starting law school in the fall. I realize how imperfect I am. I see God's work in my life and the lives of others and I hope that it will be evident in my dealings with others.

[lisah25 3]

Rtgirl77, you write very well and I admire the honesty of your words!