Anti-Semitism In France!

[lisah25 3]

Then maybe it's me! I just can't comprehend how you could consider something to be sin, and abomination and spoken against in scripture, and condone it for others and not speak out about it!! Your position that "two consenting adults can choose to live an abominal lifestyle, and it doesn't effect society" just doesn't make any sense to me. If you remember your scriptures, you will recall that this was the very lifestyle that cause the downfall of Sodom. Do you think homosexuality had a bad effect on that society??

Speaking out is one thing. Making it illegal is something else.

You really believe that homosexuality was the main reason for the downfall of Sodom?

[lisah25 3]

I'm not suprised! That is exactly the type of compromising the faith I was talking about. And of course, your athiest, liberal friends here will agree with your choice!

Hum, what about us Christian liberals here?

[Ron Cusano 0]

The fact that there are some marriages that don't produce children does not change the biblical intent of marriage. You can rationalize it any way you want, but in the end what it boils down to is do you believe and accept what the scriptures say abgout marriage and homosexuality. I guess that is what seperates Conservative Christians from Liberal Christians - we believe the Bible!

Did you answer my question about marriages that don't, and won't, produce kids?

As far as destroying the family by allowing same-sex marriage, I have to call BS. It's not like if we legalize it, all those of us in straight marriages will sudddenly leave for a same-sex spouse. In fact, I know of too many families where one partner tried to deny what they were, married and had kids, then left when it was to hard to live that lie.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Do I really believe that homosexuality was the reason for the downfall of Sodom? The real downfall was the turning away from God which resulted in homosexuality and manyn other godless acts and practices.

If Christians believe the Bible, they we are at odds with sin from every direction and have an obligation to do all that we can to fight against it. Our obligation does not stop at the ballot box. We need to vote our conscience, and if our conscience is opposed to sin, we need to vote that way. Unless you don't connsider homosexual ,practice a sin, and then your argument is with the scriptures.

Speaking out is one thing. Making it illegal is something else.

You really believe that homosexuality was the main reason for the downfall of Sodom?

[lisah25 3]

The fact that there are some marriages that don't produce children does not change the biblical intent of marriage. You can rationalize it any way you want, but in the end what it boils down to is do you believe and accept what the scriptures say abgout marriage and homosexuality. I guess that is what seperates Conservative Christians from Liberal Christians - we believe the Bible!

So it's not really about procreation then. I mean, how can you say some marriages that don't produce kids are OK, and some aren't?

Oh, and Liberal Christians believe the Bible also. We, or I guess I should only speak for myself, don't want the government making laws based on it simply because something is in the Bible. In part to protect myself. I want to have the legal freedom to worship my God based on what I believe, not what some lawmaker believes.

Oh, and what about those in the Bible who had multiple wives?

[lisah25 3]

Do I really believe that homosexuality was the reason for the downfall of Sodom? The real downfall was the turning away from God which resulted in homosexuality and manyn other godless acts and practices.

Well, the Bible is a bit more specific. And this verse doesn't single out homosexuality.

Ezekiel 16:49-50.

"49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

If Christians believe the Bible, they we are at odds with sin from every direction and have an obligation to do all that we can to fight against it. Our obligation does not stop at the ballot box. We need to vote our conscience, and if our conscience is opposed to sin, we need to vote that way. Unless you don't connsider homosexual ,practice a sin, and then your argument is with the scriptures.

I disagree, and I suppose this is another area where we will. I believe as a Christian I have a total obligation to live my own life avoiding sin as much as I can. Following what I believe God wants me to do. I do not have an obligation to vote my beliefs. And as far as I remember, you never supplied a verse saying I did.

That in no way says I am not opposed to sin, nor does it say I won't fight it in other ways.

[Ron Cusano 0]

You are talking about apples and oranges! Living in a Theocracy requires one to accept and embrace a specific religion. We are not talking about forceing any one religion on anyone. We are talking about laws against abominable practices which were outlawed in this country from it's inception.

All laws are established to distinguish what is right or wrong in given situtions. Our laws that were established from Judeo-Christians morals and principals which were the foundation of our government. These laws have never infringed on anyone's rights to practice or not practice any religion of their choice. Do you have a better foundation on which to establish what is right or wrong??

The Bible also tells us that we must obey the laws of the land EXCEPT if the are contrary to God's commandments.

I find this VERY contridicatory. On one hand, you talk about willingly, then you talk about law.

If you had to follow laws that had forced you to act as though you accepted Jesus before you did, do you think it would have affected your spirtuality?

[lisah25 3]

You are talking about apples and oranges! Living in a Theocracy requires one to accept and embrace a specific religion. We are not talking about forceing any one religion on anyone. We are talking about laws against abominable practices which were outlawed in this country from it's inception.

But you are talking about practices that are abominable based on specific religious beliefs. That is exactly forcing religion on everyone.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Because procreation is a blessing from God, and no one knows why He chooses to not bless some unions with children. That does not change the biblical foundation of marriage.

Liberal Christians say they believe the Bible, except whan that don't like what it says, and then they "interpret" their own meaning to it.

So it's not really about procreation then. I mean, how can you say some marriages that don't produce kids are OK, and some aren't?

No one is suggesting laws to keep you from worshiping God any way you choose. We are talking about laws that are against abominations and sin, that have been in law since the foundation of this country, untill recently, what ther wewre changes by liberal judges.

Oh, and Liberal Christians believe the Bible also. We, or I guess I should only speak for myself, don't want the government making laws based on it simply because something is in the Bible. In part to protect myself. I want to have the legal freedom to worship my God based on what I believe, not what some lawmaker believes.

Oh, and what about those in the Bible who had multiple wives?

[lisah25 3]

Because procreation is a blessing from God, and no one knows why He chooses to not bless some unions with children. That does not change the biblical foundation of marriage.

Ok, I give up on this one.

Liberal Christians say they believe the Bible, except whan that don't like what it says, and then they "interpret" their own meaning to it.

I see. Where have I done that?

[Ron Cusano 0]

The verse says "They were haughty and did detestable things before me"! So now go to the first Chapter of Romans and read the consequenses of doing "detestable things before God"!!

Well, the Bible is a bit more specific. And this verse doesn't single out homosexuality.

Ezekiel 16:49-50.

"49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

I disagree, and I suppose this is another area where we will. I believe as a Christian I have a total obligation to live my own life avoiding sin as much as I can. Following what I believe God wants me to do. I do not have an obligation to vote my beliefs. And as far as I remember, you never supplied a verse saying I did.

The Bible say's "In all things, do all unto the glory of God"!! Unless I am mistaken, voting falls under "ALL THINGS" and all sin is against the glory of God. There are a multiple of verses pointing in the same direction, unfortunately, I am at work and do not have a Bible handy to quote then at this moment in time.

The Bible say'

That in no way says I am not opposed to sin, nor does it say I won't fight it in other ways.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Ok, I give up on this one.

I see. Where have I done that?

Well, with regard to voting your conscience and applying your moral standards to your voting, for one!

[lisah25 3]

Well, with regard to voting your conscience and applying your moral standards to your voting, for one!

So, once again I have to ask where in the Bible I am commanded to make God's laws into the law of the land I live in?

[lisah25 3]

The verse says "They were haughty and did detestable things before me"! So now go to the first Chapter of Romans and read the consequenses of doing "detestable things before God"!!

Ah, but we were talking about what things in particular you say led to the downfall of Sodom. You originally said "“If you remember your scriptures, you will recall that this was the very lifestyle that cause the downfall of Sodom. Do you think homosexuality had a bad effect on that society??”

That is not supported by scripture.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Deciding what is right, wrong, abominal or otherwise, has to be based upon some moral standard. The laws in the country, thank God, were and hopefully still are based upon Judeo-Christian ethics and morals. That is not forcing religion on anyone, that is imposing a code of moral behaviour on people, without which you could not have peace or order. There is a big difference. Can you suggest another moral foundation that YOU would rather see laws based upon??

But you are talking about practices that are abominable based on specific religious beliefs. That is exactly forcing religion on everyone.