Anti-Semitism In France!

[Ron Cusano 0]

I don't think that any of us are born with the propensity to believe. It's much easier not to believe. I was very happy as a non-believer and did not come to faith until I was in my 30's.

Jesus said in the scriptures that "if you will seek me with an open heart, you will find me"! I think the people who find faith are the ones, for whatever reason, seek it out with an open mind. Some are just curious, some have life problem, sickness, health issues, and some, like myself come out of curosity or wanting to know the truth. The Bible say's "seek and ye shall find"! If we don't look with an open heart, we will never find true faith.

I was amused when I read this because I have often thought that this might be the case with our family. I, and the rest of my family, except with the possible exception of my mother who wasn't exactly Christian but was a very spritual person, seem to be devoid of the ability to believe. Just as some people are colour blind and others are tone deaf, it would seem that some of us are unable to make sense of something which resonates powerfully for so many others.

There has been a few times that I have regretted this inability to make this leap. My saddest experience came after I became friends with a Christian mystic. He was, of course, courting me for Christ and he wrote me the most extraordinarily beautiful and passionate letters concerning the Scriptures and faith. These documents were hand-printed on white, 14 inch long foolscap, they were usually many, many pages long - the longest one I received was 50 pages - and they were, well, extraordinary documents.

I wasn't the only one in this fellow's class. Enclosed with my letters were photocopies of letters he had written to others.

I wanted to believe. I really did but in the end I could not. None of it made sense to me.

I, however, have saved this magnificent correspondence, how could I not?

[anonemouse 1]

Since God as we understand Him is neither, and does not exist in "time and space", this would not apply.

But this all-powerful being or spirit or whatever you want to call it is able to create. Anything that is able to create has a creator. To say that the same principles controlling the creation of other things (created=creator) doesn't apply is a cop-out, in my opinion. Either God is there or he isn't. If he is, he had to have been created by someone or something. If he isn't, then science is right.

To me, the whole argument is ironic. Creationists argue that all the beings and components of the universe in existance had to be created, all the while ignoring that something had to create their creator. It doesn't matter if God is a spirit or an actual living being, the energy (or whatever you want to call it) that created us had to have been created.

As you know, even in science, "proof" is subjective and subject to change. If we can give science that latitude, why is it so hard to give God the same latitude??

But you've said that the Bible is not subject to change or interpretation. Shouldn't that "proof" be constant?

[Ron Cusano 0]

You are willing to accept that matter & energy "always existed" but not God. Isn't that inconsistant? Because God is able to create does not say that He had to be created. It is not a cop out.

We only understand what is in "creation, the universe", whatever we want to call it, but God exists on a different plane other that time and space, we call it eternity, and is not governed by the the limititations we and creation are subject to. That is what make Him God. Yes God is spirit, but we don't know exactly, nor can we fully comprehend what "spirit" actually is. This is what the Bible teaches and it is consistant and constant. I think you are looking to rationalize and find proof positive for something we are not capible of fully understanding with our limited capisity.

But this all-powerful being or spirit or whatever you want to call it is able to create. Anything that is able to create has a creator. To say that the same principles controlling the creation of other things (created=creator) doesn't apply is a cop-out, in my opinion. Either God is there or he isn't. If he is, he had to have been created by someone or something. If he isn't, then science is right.

To me, the whole argument is ironic. Creationists argue that all the beings and components of the universe in existance had to be created, all the while ignoring that something had to create their creator. It doesn't matter if God is a spirit or an actual living being, the energy (or whatever you want to call it) that created us had to have been created.

But you've said that the Bible is not subject to change or interpretation. Shouldn't that "proof" be constant?

[TommyO 5]

I do not beleive in God because I don't feel a need, that may make little sense but, to me, it is the only way I can explain my beliefs. I don't care if evolution or creationism is the answer, It makes no difference to me.

I sat with a gentleman once and discussed his devout Christianity one day, I asked him what was it that made him become a Christian and he kept referring to something that was missing being found, like a peice of a puzzle. Repeatedly he would say "You know that sense that something is missing" and I kept answering him with "No I do not". At first he thought I was mocking him but he began to realize that I was in ernest. From that day forward I began to realize that I do not have a similar sense about the world and it's origins as many other people. I am not looking for answers or for that matter I have no questions about the meaning of life. I have a sense that, "it is what it is" and I believe it is important to participate as much as possible.

People may have divergent reasons for believing as they do but my sense is that many people feel that something is missing and with out this something, nothing makes sense. By believing that there is a God and a heaven and a higher purpose it gives life meaning with out a sense of higher purpose life becomes meaningless and a great void opens inside, with the belief in God and Heaven the void is filled. The filling of the void not only makes believers feel better it also provides them with the certaintanty of the existence of a soul.

I believe that life begins and ends and what you do during your alloted time is what makes it worth living.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I never felt that there was anything missing in my life either. I have a wife, kids, good business, owned a home, paid my bills, etc. I was happy. When I found God, I must admit, I got a lot happier.

As I shared a few posts back, I got curious after reading a book that was way out there, about the Bible coming from aliens, etc. A real wacko thing. I actually picked up the Bible, started to research and study it, and listened to other people in the hope of proving them wrong. I did want to know what the truth was, because if this was true, somehow it effected what happened after I died, I thought it made good sense to check it out.

When I checked it out with an open mind and an open heart, thats when all the peices fit together and it made perfect sense to me. I came to the only conclusion I could, that it was real. Everyone who comes to faith comes for a different reason and feom a different place. before that, I was not religious at all and had serious doubts weather there was such a thing as God, and if there was, what He have to do with me. Boy, was I wrong.

I do not beleive in God because I don't feel a need, that may make little sense but, to me, it is the only way I can explain my beliefs. I don't care if evolution or creationism is the answer, It makes no difference to me.

I sat with a gentleman once and discussed his devout Christianity one day, I asked him what was it that made him become a Christian and he kept referring to something that was missing being found, like a peice of a puzzle. Repeatedly he would say "You know that sense that something is missing" and I kept answering him with "No I do not". At first he thought I was mocking him but he began to realize that I was in ernest. From that day forward I began to realize that I do not have a similar sense about the world and it's origins as many other people. I am not looking for answers or for that matter I have no questions about the meaning of life. I have a sense that, "it is what it is" and I believe it is important to participate as much as possible.

People may have divergent reasons for believing as they do but my sense is that many people feel that something is missing and with out this something, nothing makes sense. By believing that there is a God and a heaven and a higher purpose it gives life meaning with out a sense of higher purpose life becomes meaningless and a great void opens inside, with the belief in God and Heaven the void is filled. The filling of the void not only makes believers feel better it also provides them with the certaintanty of the existence of a soul.

I believe that life begins and ends and what you do during your alloted time is what makes it worth living.

[anonemouse 1]

You are willing to accept that matter & energy "always existed" but not God. Isn't that inconsistant?

I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of your statement that everything had to be created. Like I said earlier, I don't necessarily think that matter and energy never had a beginning. I think that we don't understand everything yet and that we don't have the capability to understand. But, as I was trying to point out, creationists argue that all energy in the universe and all beings in the universe had to have a beginning, had to be "created". Yet, they ignore the fact that a being (or spirit, energy, whatever) capable of creating something had to have been created itself.

An analogy to God is a machine that creates molds of objects. In order for that machine to exist and create those molds, someone had to create the machine. Now, another machine can construct the mold machine, but that machine must have had a creator, also. In other words, saying that there must be a creator for every living and non-living object out there leads to the foregone conclusion that there is a never-ending line of creators, because in order for something to exist to create, it must have been created itself.

With that in mind, who is God's God?

[Ron Cusano 0]

I fully understand what you are saying. It's kind of like the "cause and effect" theory.

What I am trying to say is that God, being spirit, is not subject to these limitations that would otherwise be correct for all "things". God is not a thing that exists in the enviroment that we call "the universe". He exists on a spiritual level that we can't even comprehend; a place we refer to as "eternity" that has no beginning and no end, and always was with God.

To our human understanding, you need to have something to create something. But God created from nothing. It's a whole different ballgame, and I don't think that any human can ever understand it until we enter eternity.

I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of your statement that everything had to be created. Like I said earlier, I don't necessarily think that matter and energy never had a beginning. I think that we don't understand everything yet and that we don't have the capability to understand. But, as I was trying to point out, creationists argue that all energy in the universe and all beings in the universe had to have a beginning, had to be "created". Yet, they ignore the fact that a being (or spirit, energy, whatever) capable of creating something had to have been created itself.

An analogy to God is a machine that creates molds of objects. In order for that machine to exist and create those molds, someone had to create the machine. Now, another machine can construct the mold machine, but that machine must have had a creator, also. In other words, saying that there must be a creator for every living and non-living object out there leads to the foregone conclusion that there is a never-ending line of creators, because in order for something to exist to create, it must have been created itself.

With that in mind, who is God's God?

[Ron Cusano 0]

PS - If nothing else, I think that we have proven here today that we can have serious dialog and discussion, disagree with each other, and not go for each others throats. It is kind of refreshing!!

[anonemouse 1]

What I am trying to say is that God, being spirit, is not subject to these limitations that would otherwise be correct for all "things". God is not a thing that exists in the enviroment that we call "the universe". He exists on a spiritual level that we can't even comprehend; a place we refer to as "eternity" that has no beginning and no end, and always was with God.

Well, then, who says that anything else that exists had to have a creator, then? It doesn't matter what something is, whether it's plasma, physical, or something we call "spirit" for lack of a better name. If it exists, it had to have been created. You can't just say, "Well, this is an exception." Either everything that exists had to have been created or it didn't. Again, who or what created the "spirit" you call God?

To our human understanding, you need to have something to create something.

Bingo. I think that is why much of society has turned to religion. They need to know that there was something out there stonger than them that created the universe and themselves. They think that in order for something to exist, something had to have created it.

PS - If nothing else, I think that we have proven here today that we can have serious dialog and discussion, disagree with each other, and not go for each others throats. It is kind of refreshing!!

It really is!

[Ron Cusano 0]

Because everything else that exists, "plasma, physical, or something " exists in the universe that is subject to the cause and effect rules you are talking about. You are thinking in terms of what you can "see, touch and prove", which is your world of science. If I am not mistaken, even Einstein theroized that there was other demensions that are not subject to the universal laws as we know them. That is a great explanation of "eternity"!

Well, then, who says that anything else that exists had to have a creator, then? It doesn't matter what something is, whether it's plasma, physical, or something we call "spirit" for lack of a better name. If it exists, it had to have been created. You can't just say, "Well, this is an exception." Either everything that exists had to have been created or it didn't. Again, who or what created the "spirit" you call God?

Bingo. I think that is why much of society has turned to religion. They need to know that there was something out there stonger than them that created the universe and themselves. They think that in order for something to exist, something had to have created it.

By the same token, don't you need to know that for anything to be real real, you have to be able to see or prove it, to use your words? As much as what you preceive society looking for something greater than itself, science and people who's reality is governed by science, need to prove that there is no one greater that yourselves. Science is your ultimate truth.

It really is!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

ATLANTA - A Jewish organization is demanding an apology from a Georgia legislator for a memo that says the teaching of evolution should be banned because it is a myth propagated by an ancient Jewish sect.

State Rep. Ben Bridges denies writing the memo, which attributes the Big Bang theory to Kabbalah, or Jewish mysticism.

Bridges has long opposed the teaching of evolution in Georgia classrooms and has introduced legislation requiring only that "scientific fact" be taught.

Marshall Hall, president of the Fair Education Foundation, says the Republican lawmaker gave him approval to write the memo, which has been distributed to legislators in several states, including California and Texas.

The memo asks readers to challenge the "evolution monopoly in the schools" by logging onto Hall's anti-evolution Web site, http://www.fixedearth.com .

"Indisputable evidence — long hidden but now available to everyone — demonstrates conclusively that so-called 'secular evolution science' is the Big Bang, 15-billion-year, alternate 'creation scenario' of the Pharisee Religion," says the memo, which has Bridges' name on it. "This scenario is derived concept-for-concept from Rabbinic writings in the mystic 'holy book' Kabbala dating back at least two millennia."

The Anti-Defamation League sent a letter to Bridges on Thursday chastising him for the memo and demanding him to apologize.

"Your memo conjures up repugnant images of Judaism used for thousands of years to smear the Jewish people as cult-like and manipulative," wrote Bill Nigut, the league's Southeast regional director.

The league sent a similar letter to a Texas lawmaker who circulated the memo to members of the Texas Legislature's budget-writing committee.

State Rep. Warren Chisum told The Dallas Morning News in Thursday editions he was trying to do a "Good Samaritan" deed for Bridges. "If that's a sin, well, shoot me," he told the newspaper.

But in a letter to Mark Brisman, director of the league's North Texas/Oklahoma chapter, he wrote, "I sincerely regret that I did not take the time to carefully review these materials and recognize that I may have hurt or offended some groups including some of my dear friends," according to The New York Times.

Hall, a 76-year-old retired high school teacher who said his wife ran Bridges' election campaign, said neither the memo nor his Web site is anti-Semitic. "I think they tar people with that brush a little too readily," he said.

[BJean 16]

Thanks for calling this to our attention, TOM.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Interesting! As much as I am against evolution, I think claiming and trying to prove that it came out of Kabbala is going to be very hard to do. I have never heard this claim before, and I have never seen any evidence to support it. And I think the complaining organization is right. I does serve to make the Jewish people look like a cult. There is enough anti-semitism around already.

ATLANTA - A Jewish organization is demanding an apology from a Georgia legislator for a memo that says the teaching of evolution should be banned because it is a myth propagated by an ancient Jewish sect.

State Rep. Ben Bridges denies writing the memo, which attributes the Big Bang theory to Kabbalah, or Jewish mysticism.

Bridges has long opposed the teaching of evolution in Georgia classrooms and has introduced legislation requiring only that "scientific fact" be taught.

Marshall Hall, president of the Fair Education Foundation, says the Republican lawmaker gave him approval to write the memo, which has been distributed to legislators in several states, including California and Texas.

The memo asks readers to challenge the "evolution monopoly in the schools" by logging onto Hall's anti-evolution Web site, http://www.fixedearth.com .

"Indisputable evidence — long hidden but now available to everyone — demonstrates conclusively that so-called 'secular evolution science' is the Big Bang, 15-billion-year, alternate 'creation scenario' of the Pharisee Religion," says the memo, which has Bridges' name on it. "This scenario is derived concept-for-concept from Rabbinic writings in the mystic 'holy book' Kabbala dating back at least two millennia."

The Anti-Defamation League sent a letter to Bridges on Thursday chastising him for the memo and demanding him to apologize.

"Your memo conjures up repugnant images of Judaism used for thousands of years to smear the Jewish people as cult-like and manipulative," wrote Bill Nigut, the league's Southeast regional director.

The league sent a similar letter to a Texas lawmaker who circulated the memo to members of the Texas Legislature's budget-writing committee.

State Rep. Warren Chisum told The Dallas Morning News in Thursday editions he was trying to do a "Good Samaritan" deed for Bridges. "If that's a sin, well, shoot me," he told the newspaper.

But in a letter to Mark Brisman, director of the league's North Texas/Oklahoma chapter, he wrote, "I sincerely regret that I did not take the time to carefully review these materials and recognize that I may have hurt or offended some groups including some of my dear friends," according to The New York Times.

Hall, a 76-year-old retired high school teacher who said his wife ran Bridges' election campaign, said neither the memo nor his Web site is anti-Semitic. "I think they tar people with that brush a little too readily," he said.

[lisah25 3]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but I would argue that God created the institution of marriage, with a man and a women, for procreation, and condoning same sex marriage tears down the very fabric of our society - the tradational, man & women family. It is also a moral affront to long held social values. The first chapter of the Book of Romans paints a vivid picture of a society that embraces same sex unions. You destroy the family and you destroy society.

Did you answer my question about marriages that don't, and won't, produce kids?

As far as destroying the family by allowing same-sex marriage, I have to call BS. It's not like if we legalize it, all those of us in straight marriages will sudddenly leave for a same-sex spouse. In fact, I know of too many families where one partner tried to deny what they were, married and had kids, then left when it was to hard to live that lie.

[lisah25 3]

I don't know about a Christian Theocracy but I would live to live in a world that was base fully upon Christian teaching and values, and adhered to by all willingly. Our forefathers came here to escape religious theocracy if you8 remember.

God didn't force me to believe and I don't have the right to force anyone else to believe, but that does not mean that I can't and won't do all that I personally can to work toward that end. And that means supporting laws that I think support my beliefs. I am sorry that you don't have rspect for me, but I am sharing what I believe in a manner that i hope you will come to understand.

I find this VERY contridicatory. On one hand, you talk about willingly, then you talk about law.

If you had to follow laws that had forced you to act as though you accepted Jesus before you did, do you think it would have affected your spirtuality?