Anti-Semitism In France!

[lisah25 3]

And you are correct, I have a big problem with gay marriage and abortion which are the poster children of secular humanism. I believe that flies in the face of Christian truth and practice. This is my belief and understanding.

Which leads me to ask, assuming that you are against legal gay marriage, why can't you simply live your life based on what you believe is right or wrong? Why must everyone else in this country also do so, when it may not be their belief?

[Wheetsin 714]

That's the rub. Christian principles are driving the development and implementation of laws that non-christians have to abide by. Seems like it would be a much nicer place if - say - gays could marry just as heteros could, and enjoy equal rights, and the people who are against it... well, they're probably not going to be marrying anyone who's gay, so no skin off their back.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I do try to live my life based upon what I consider right, therefore I can not be supportive of others doing what I believe to be wrong and evil. I have no authority to make anyone do anything, but I can not pretend it does not exist and ignore it. I believe it is wrong and immoral by Christian standards, therefore I must oppose it. I feel the same about abortion.

Which leads me to ask, assuming that you are against legal gay marriage, why can't you simply live your life based on what you believe is right or wrong? Why must everyone else in this country also do so, when it may not be their belief?

[Ron Cusano 0]

The problem lies with the fact that these laws which are based upon Judeo-Christian morals and ethics, are supported by the vast majority of people in this country. Why should the majority have to change their laws and morality to accomodate the minority? Maybe you should change your views to accomodate the majority??

Christians oppose gay marriage because be believe that marriage is to be only between an man and a women, according to biblical teaching. How then could we in good conscience just accept what we consider to be immoral, unnatural and against our spiritual beliefs?

That's the rub. Christian principles are driving the development and implementation of laws that non-christians have to abide by. Seems like it would be a much nicer place if - say - gays could marry just as heteros could, and enjoy equal rights, and the people who are against it... well, they're probably not going to be marrying anyone who's gay, so no skin off their back.

[lisah25 3]

I do try to live my life based upon what I consider right, therefore I can not be supportive of others doing what I believe to be wrong and evil. I have no authority to make anyone do anything, but I can not pretend it does not exist and ignore it. I believe it is wrong and immoral by Christian standards, therefore I must oppose it. I feel the same about abortion.

You don't have to support it, I'm not saying you need to go and start a wedding planning business or anything. But by supporting laws that keep it illegal, there is a level of authority to make people do, or not in this case, something. Based on your belief of what is right or wrong.

[lisah25 3]

The problem lies with the fact that these laws which are based upon Judeo-Christian morals and ethics, are supported by the vast majority of people in this country. Why should the majority have to change their laws and morality to accomodate the minority? Maybe you should change your views to accomodate the majority??

Well, I still don't conceed that point, that our laws were based on those morals.

Even so, banning gay marriage isn't opposed by the vast majority of people. And further, why does might make right?

Christians oppose gay marriage because be believe that marriage is to be only between an man and a women, according to biblical teaching. How then could we in good conscience just accept what we consider to be immoral, unnatural and against our spiritual beliefs?

Because we live in a country that loves freedom. Lots of things happen that I don't support or approve of, but as long as they don't affect my life, or society in general, I don't have a right to tell other people not to do it.

[Ron Cusano 0]

But laws are supposed to be based upon what is right according to the beliefs of those making and voting for the laws!! That is how government works! Of course I am going to support laws that prevent what I consider and believe to be immoral and wrong. Do you really expect people not to support laws that oppose what they consider wrong and immoral???

You don't have to support it, I'm not saying you need to go and start a wedding planning business or anything. But by supporting laws that keep it illegal, there is a level of authority to make people do, or not in this case, something. Based on your belief of what is right or wrong.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Gay marriage is by far opposed by the vast majority of people in the US. According to statistics, it's not even close to being close. You may not agree that our laws are based upon Judeo-Christian ehtics, nevertheless, it's a proven fact. From attorneys that I know, it's a basic fundermental in law school.

What make it right? From a Judeo-Christian perspective, it the biblical foundation of what marriage is that make gay marriage wrong. One of the criteria of a biblical marriage is that the couple "go forth and multiply" which, you must concede, is not about to happen in a gay marriage.

Well, I still don't conceed that point, that our laws were based on those morals.

Even so, banning gay marriage isn't opposed by the vast majority of people. And further, why does might make right?

You don't have a right to tell people what not to do! Can you tell them to stay off your property? To not assualt you? To not steal your money? To not have sex with your young children?? You have pleanty of right to tell people what not to do! It's called the law!

Because we live in a country that loves freedom. Lots of things happen that I don't support or approve of, but as long as they don't affect my life, or society in general, I don't have a right to tell other people not to do it.

[lisah25 3]

But laws are supposed to be based upon what is right according to the beliefs of those making and voting for the laws!! That is how government works! Of course I am going to support laws that prevent what I consider and believe to be immoral and wrong. Do you really expect people not to support laws that oppose what they consider wrong and immoral???

I expect people to support laws that benefit society. Where it's a matter of personal beliefs, with no compelling reason outside of that, then I expect people to be willing to live as they believe, and allow others to do the same. I expect people to look beyond themselves and realize that freedom may be hard to grant sometimes, but that we all have areas where we should be glad it's there. My in-laws don't believe in drinking alcohol. So, I don't order wine when I'm out with them, but I do drink a glass now and then otherwise. And I'm glad their belief is not law in this case.

Which is why I am a Christian who doesn't agree gay marriage should be outlawed.

[lisah25 3]

What make it right? From a Judeo-Christian perspective, it the biblical foundation of what marriage is that make gay marriage wrong. One of the criteria of a biblical marriage is that the couple "go forth and multiply" which, you must concede, is not about to happen in a gay marriage.

So, what about all the straight marriages that don't produce kids? By choice or otherwise?

[lisah25 3]

Gay marriage is by far opposed by the vast majority of people in the US. According to statistics, it's not even close to being close. You may not agree that our laws are based upon Judeo-Christian ehtics, nevertheless, it's a proven fact. From attorneys that I know, it's a basic fundermental in law school.

http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=29#2

Shows that even back on 2003, 53% of those polled opposed gay marriage.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-04-10-gay-marriage-poll_x.htm

55% opposed gay marriage.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_040121.html

Again, 55%.

I don't call that vast.

[Ron Cusano 0]

You are entitled to believe what you choose. All I can say is that your position of gay marriage seems to be based upon you own feelings and reasoning, whereas the Christian opposition to gay marriage is based upon the clear teaching of scripture. I find it hard to understand how as a Christian you would put aside scriptural teaching in favor of your own reasoning, but you are free to do so.

I expect people to support laws that benefit society. Where it's a matter of personal beliefs, with no compelling reason outside of that, then I expect people to be willing to live as they believe, and allow others to do the same. I expect people to look beyond themselves and realize that freedom may be hard to grant sometimes, but that we all have areas where we should be glad it's there. My in-laws don't believe in drinking alcohol. So, I don't order wine when I'm out with them, but I do drink a glass now and then otherwise. And I'm glad their belief is not law in this case.

Which is why I am a Christian who doesn't agree gay marriage should be outlawed.

[Ron Cusano 0]

According to this survey it up to 61%

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/19/opinion/polls/main589551.shtml

I guess it depend on which poll you are looking at on which day. The bottom line is there are NO polls showing that the majority in if favor of gay marriage.

http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=29#2

Shows that even back on 2003, 53% of those polled opposed gay marriage.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-04-10-gay-marriage-poll_x.htm

55% opposed gay marriage.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_040121.html

Again, 55%.

I don't call that vast.

[lisah25 3]

You are entitled to believe what you choose. All I can say is that your position of gay marriage seems to be based upon you own feelings and reasoning, whereas the Christian opposition to gay marriage is based upon the clear teaching of scripture. I find it hard to understand how as a Christian you would put aside scriptural teaching in favor of your own reasoning, but you are free to do so.

I don't remember seeing anything in scripture that requires me to support laws to validate my beliefs?

I'm not saying anything about my personal feelings about the right or wrongess of gay marriage. Or really any other issue that doesn't impact society as a whole.

I'm talking about why anyone thinks their personal, spiritual beliefs should be shoved onto others through law.

[lisah25 3]

According to this survey it up to 61%

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/19/opinion/polls/main589551.shtml

I guess it depend on which poll you are looking at on which day. The bottom line is there are NO polls showing that the majority in if favor of gay marriage.

Even your poll shows only 54% oppose gay civil unions.

Since when are we a country of majority rules always?