Anti-Semitism In France!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

An "eye for an eye" does not give permision to get even. It means no more than "eye for an eye".

It is a limit on punishment, not a call for vengence.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Frankly, I have heard George W. speak and I have seen him make various decisions, and I in no way think that his comments were stetched or taken out of context.

BuSh was asked why he didn't listen to his father who wrote that it would be a mistake to take out Hussein (in the book "A World Transformed").

I heard and watched George W. BuSh say on National TV (WNBC) that when it come to war and politics, he takes advice from a "higher father".

[leatha_g 4]

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[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I really don't mean to be argumentative. I dislike the whole debate and argue format here, but let me ask you this.

Just so you'll understand my perspective. I'll share with you that I have had a family member dismembered. Her wonderful, school teacher (of gifted students) husband strangled her to death one night in an arguement. She lay there for well over 24 hrs, dead, while he ran errands, purchasing a chain saw and making plans for her ingenius disposal. He came home and pretended to be doing some construction on his house and while doing so, he purposely cut his own leg, so that there would be blood in the area. He then proceeded to cut her head off. He didn't even do a clean job of it. He missed the neck and cut from her chin through to the back of her skull. He then moved on to cut both her hands off. This, so that no one could identify her through fingerprints. So, he proceeded to dig up the shrubs in the backyard and that is where he planted the hands and the head. Then, he put her torso in a black lawn leaf bag and tossed it in the trunk of his car. He then drove from Lubbock, Texas to Fluvanna, Texas which is sparsely populated, but was her home county and he stopped on the roadside near a very steep hill and he non-chalantly tossed the large black bag over the guardrail. He was hoping the coyotes would find the torso and no one would ever know the difference. OR - by bringing her to her home county, maybe not. Who knows what a genius might be thinking.

That man served 7 years in prison and he now resides in Florida somewhere and I believe he is remarried. For all I know, he may again be teaching gifted and talented children. Maybe private tutoring if his record wouldn't allow him in schools. So, you tell me...

Yes. As a Christian, I do struggle with these issues. As a family member, it's pretty hard not to think he should have gotten exactly what he gave without the gift of another day to contemplate it.

There are many many many crimes committed which find the perpetuator at the scene of the crime or positively identified through DNA. For those who have been found guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. I really do not understand the idea of housing them for years and years and years.

It sometimes takes many years to find out that they are innocent, so would you rather have had them executed before being found innocent?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I am going to start an organization called "Christians for War and Execution".

Oh, there already is one and its called the "Conservative wing of the Republican party".:faint:

I think that when Constantine (about 325 AD) declared that all Romans would become Christians, what may have happened is that (too) many Christians became Romans (in spirit).

[leatha_g 4]

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[BJean 16]

My goodness that is a horrid, grizzly story. I am so sorry that happened! How in the world did he only get 7 years?

My cousin was the young man who was killed at point blank range by a man in a convenience store in California many years ago. The guy didn't like my cousin's pale skin and red hair. He made Al lie on the floor, then took his shotgun and shot him at point blank range. He was a hardened criminal who was notorious and involved in gangs out there. He had also killed an Asian couple. Last year his time finally came up. You would not believe the media coverage. It was all over national TV, in People and US magazines, the Today show, everywhere you looked. He had been "born again" and had the support of Al Sharpton and other high profile people. They had written letters, staged sit-ins, the whole 9 yards. It kept him alive for I believe (if I remember correctly) 20+ years on death row. California finally put him to death. You probably heard about it.

For years, we hated the guy who took Al's life - Albert was fresh out of the military and had a wife and small children. He was looking for a job right after his honorable discharge and working at the convenience store temporarily.

Believe it or not, I was conflicted when it came time for Al's murderer to be put to death. He had written a book while in prison. If he was really born again, could he be a productive citizen while living out the rest of his life in prison? He was not old when California carried out his death sentence. Was he repentant? Was he a child of God? I could not have made the decision. I am not his judge and jury. In some ways I believe it was much easier on him to just die rather than live with what he had done.

That's why the death penalty is so controversial. Too many questions. Too many components and variables. I have no right to kill someone. I don't think I could ever live with a decision like that. I am not God.

[leatha_g 4]

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[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Like I said. You tell me. Do you have daughters, sons, sisters, mothers? This man absolutely did it. He never even denied that he did it. He, in fact, was hoping to just get by with it and keep on trucking.

If there is question from the outset, of course, I feel they should have every chance of being exonerated. So, as with anything, there are circumstances. Very little in this world is black and white and I may be silly, but I don't think I'm silly enough to be made out as heartless.

If a man stands up, with a cut on his leg and a chain saw standing in the corner with fresh meat in it's tines. I think it's safe enough to move forward with his sentence. If that includes death, that includes death. If he stands up and swears he is innocent. He deserves to fight it until his dying breath.

It doesn't matter if I have daughters, sons, sisters, mothers, etc.

Killing is wrong.

Killing in the name of the state is wrong.

There is, I suspect, something wrong with your story. If things happened as you wrote, I do not see how the sentence was 7 years. Are you sure that there is not some supposition in your story?:help:

[leatha_g 4]

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[BJean 16]

LetheaG: Your approach to all this sounds like one way to be able to sleep at night. We all need that.

I can't speak for Tom, but I am outraged that the guy you told us about only got 7 years. What happened???

[leatha_g 4]

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[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Good God Tom. Are you implying that I would make up this story? Unbelievable.

I didn't say you made it up. I am asking how you know these details to be true, yet the man only got 7 years.

Could it be that there was not enough evidence for a conviction, so they plea bargained?

People do not get the death penalty when there is a plea bargain.

Without the plea bargain, the man might have gone free.

Or did you hear what happened as per the police on TV and then at trial, it turned out that it was not quite what the police had said had happened?

I would never insinuate that you would lie!!!

[leatha_g 4]

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[BJean 16]

Just got a joke from a Christian friend of mine that I thought I'd share to lighten the atmosphere a little. Hope you don't find it too irreverent.

The story is told of a man who got a permit to open the first tavern (bar) in a small town. The members of a local church were strongly opposed to the bar, so they began to pray that God would intervene.

A few days before the tavern was scheduled to open, lightning hit the structure and it burned to the ground. The people of the church were surprised but pleased - until they received notice that the would-be tavern owner was suing them. He contended that their prayers were responsible for the burning of the building. They denied the charge. At the conclusion of the preliminary hearing, the judge wryly remarked, "At this point I don't know what my decision will be, but it seems that the tavern owner believes in the power of prayer and these church people don't."