Anti-Semitism In France!

[Ron Cusano 0]

I don't think the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds had much choice in the matter under Saddam because if any of them stepped out of like they would be shot. If I remember correctly, none of the other countries in the area were receptive to interceding in the Iraq sitution because they didn't want to get involved. But, in the same breath, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, they welcopmed our intervention with open arms.

Again, I'm not saying that we did everything right in Iraq, but there is a much bigger picture here to consider.

How prophetic was that slip?

The Serbs, Bosnians and Croatians were held apart for many years by the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia's President Marshal Tito. As soon as Tito died and the Soviet union broke up, the Serbs, Bosnians and Croatians started fighting WW1 again and broke Yugoslavia into pieces.

We have an exact parallel to that in Iraq with the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds. But what makes it worse in Iraq is that the battles between these groups will spill over into the neighboring countries.

The situation might be ameliorated if George W. BuSh would just try to negotiate with all of the countries in the area, Turkey, Syria, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. But stubborn Bush and stubborn Rice will not talk to Syria and Iran. Their pride gets in the way of peace.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I don't think the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds had much choice in the matter under Saddam because if any of them stepped out of like they would be shot. If I remember correctly, none of the other countries in the area were receptive to interceding in the Iraq sitution because they didn't want to get involved. But, in the same breath, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, they welcopmed our intervention with open arms.

Again, I'm not saying that we did everything right in Iraq, but there is a much bigger picture here to consider.

Hussein kept peace the same way that Marshal Tito kept peace, with terror.

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia welcomed our intervention in Kuwait, but George HW BuSh knew better that to take out Hussein ans he wrote a book about it called "A World Transformed" in which he described why he didn't take out Hussein in 1991.

Hussein was bad to his people, but he kept Iran in check. Notice how we are getting ready to attack Iran. Hussein was the buffer and now that he is gone, the USA or Israel will have to fight Iran, making for even more bad blood between the Christian/Judea forces and the forces of Islam.

Yes, there is a bigger picture here, and it is fight the enemy who attacked you, but don't look to bite into more trouble than you can chew.

[gailannr 1]

Maybe I am twisting things, but it seems to me that since God created Adam to be perfect and Eve was created without sin, then God must be a terrible parent.:faint:

Satan was also created by God and had nowhere to learn bad habits from, but from observing God. No one can even use the excuse that Satan tempted him, because "he is him".

The God of the "Old Testament" was mean, vengeful, Jealous and self-centered, and He was not ashamed of these traits. Is it any wonder his children took after Him?

If Adam and Eve would have had a lapband they probably wouldn't have eaten that apple!

[Ron Cusano 0]

Sue, we have been having a decent conversation and disagreeing without the insulting. Talking about fundamentalists and saying, "and you know how they are" is going back where we don't need to go!

As far as your post, I don't have all the answers. No one apparently does. What I said were the goals that I thought would be acceptable to indicate sucess. I don't have all the answers of how to achieve them. What I am certain about is, walking away and allowing ourselves to be defeated by the Islamic Militants is only going to guarantee more horrible attacks in out homeland.

The fundamentalist government that you describe is exactly what will take place if we walk away. The GOAL is a democratic govermnent that will offer individual rights to the people. Again, I don't have all the answers, but that I believe should hbe out goal.

i

You are aware that the "internal factions" are REALLY the artificially united peoples of three different areas, aren't you? And that they have been fighting each other for about 1600 years...

Did you have a timeline in mind that would undo 1600 years of mutual murdering and marauding? (I'm pretty sure Dubya didn't...he thought the mission had been accomplished when he was playing sky cowboy.) Now, no matter how hard you try, 1600 years of hating your neighbor does impact how you live your life.

What you WILL have there is probably fundamentalist (and you know how they are) Muslim as a backlash to Saddam's lack of religious interest. The call to prayer will ring out five times per day. Women may or may not be allowed to drive cars. People who convert to other religions may be executed. It will be okay to kill rape victims, since--by being raped--they have disgraced the family. There's your democratic Iraq of the very near future.

[BJean 16]

This political discussion is much more interesting and informative than the religious one on previous pages.

I feel very fortunate to be able to read the words of GeezerSue, TruBluSue, and others who have unique experiences and perspectives to share.

I would like to thank you too, for your service to this country. You are very impressive women.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

When I was a child, I was brought up by Roman Catholic parents (in name at least) and by fervent Pentecostal grandparents. My Catholic priest and the US Council of Bishops railed against war. My grandparent's Pentecostal ministers were against war and preached against it.

But, during Ronald Reagan's term, I noticed that the Protestant clergy starting behaving in a very war-like manner. When Ronald Reagan was having a difficult time pushing his MX Missile program through congress, he asked Jerry Falwell to tell his associated ministers to preach the need for the MX from the pulpit during the Sunday sermons. They did at 1000's of churches. The Roman Catholic Council of Bishops condemned the MX Missile system, but enough pressure was put on congress by the Protestant lay people, that the MX was built and deployed (at great cost).

When and why did the Protestant clergy become the protagonists of warfare?

Would Jesus approve of the war-like stance of the Protestant clergy?

[Ron Cusano 0]

Yes, God created Adam and Eve perfect, and He created Lucifer, an angelic being, not a human, without sin, but He did give them free will. He did not create them to be robots. They choose to sin all by themselves.

You don't have to have an example to sin. Consider yound kids barely able to talk, yet then have no problem lieing without anyone teaching them how to. As I have said before, you are free to believe whatever you choose.

Would Adam and Eve have chosen to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (it wasn't an apple) probally, but they would have done it slower and chewed it well!!

If Adam and Eve would have had a lapband they probably wouldn't have eaten that apple!

[leatha_g 4]

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[Ron Cusano 0]

I have attended Protestant churches for over 30+ years and I have NEVER heard a sermon on politics in any way, shape and form. The closest I have ever heard was being advised to vote, and encourage to vote for canidates that express godly and moral principals, although NEVER mentioned by name or party.

I don't know where you got your information, but it is very suspect to say the least.

When I was a child, I was brought up by Roman Catholic parents (in name at least) and by fervent Pentecostal grandparents. My Catholic priest and the US Council of Bishops railed against war. My grandparent's Pentecostal ministers were against war and preached against it.

But, during Ronald Reagan's term, I noticed that the Protestant clergy starting behaving in a very war-like manner. When Ronald Reagan was having a difficult time pushing his MX Missile program through congress, he asked Jerry Falwell to tell his associated ministers to preach the need for the MX from the pulpit during the Sunday sermons. They did at 1000's of churches. The Roman Catholic Council of Bishops condemned the MX Missile system, but enough pressure was put on congress by the Protestant lay people, that the MX was built and deployed (at great cost).

When and why did the Protestant clergy become the protagonists of warfare?

Would Jesus approve of the war-like stance of the Protestant clergy?

[leatha_g 4]

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[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Hitler was dictating the law.. there is a difference. :faint:

And Caesar wasn't?

[Ron Cusano 0]

There is a big difference between just laws and laws that are unjust and repressive. Comparing Hitler and Caesar to the President of the United States is really out there!

And Caeser wasn't?

[anonemouse 1]

Does it not make a difference that the people who received the death penalty were in fact IN PRISON due to crimes they had committed? Christian or not, the law of our land says you will be prosecuted and receive sentence according to your crime.

The problem is that a lot of the people on death row are innocent. I believe that it was Ohio where they found that half the people sentenced to death were actually innocent.

[leatha_g 4]

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[Ron Cusano 0]

I know there are always some that fall between the cracks, but I think 50% is a little over stated. I have never heard of anything like that, and I am sure it would have been on every front page. I couldn't even comprehend how it could be proven that 50% of those on death row were innocent. Whereever you got that information, it sound very, very exagerated.

The fact that occasionally an innocent person is convicted sucks, and our judicial system is not perfect. Few things are. But it is the best that we have right now, and there are crimes that, according to our laws, are worthy of the death penelty. I am sure there are innocent people in jsil for many other crimes as well. Should we not put people in jail then, because it is possible that someone who is innocent might suffer. Again, it sucks, but it is the best that be have to work with until someone comes up with a foolproof, perfect system of justice.

The problem is that a lot of the people on death row are innocent. I believe that it was Ohio where they found that half the people sentenced to death were actually innocent.