Anti-Semitism In France!

[Ron Cusano 0]

With evangelical christianity the two become one because part of the tenents of our faith is that we need to share it with others. We do that by sharing the biblical truths that we believe. Apparently, sharing what I believe, and sharing it to be untimate truth, which I believe it to be, is what everyone gets upset about.

To expect me to keep my faith to myself is to ask me to not practice my faith.

I don't, and I don't think most of the people here do, either. Criticizing how a person tries to spread his or her beliefs isn't the same as attacking the belief system. Obviously, as an atheist, I don't think Christianity is valid. But that wasn't a conclusion I came to because of the actions of Christians.

And I think we can debate on who is or isn't a Whosit. What one person may consider as subscribing to the tenets of Whositism, another may consider to be going beyond those tenets. Of course, those that consider it to be going beyond the tenets would be considered to be people who aren't living up to those tenets by the same people that they think are going beyond them.

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't, and I don't think most of the people here do, either. Criticizing how a person tries to spread his or her beliefs isn't the same as attacking the belief system. Obviously, as an atheist, I don't think Christianity is valid. But that wasn't a conclusion I came to because of the actions of Christians.

And I think we can debate on who is or isn't a Whosit. What person one may consider as subscribing to the tenets of Whositism, person two may consider to be going beyond those tenets. Of course, person two would be considered to be people who aren't living up to those tenets by person one.

But I think we can all agree that Hitler wasn't a Christian in any way, shape, or form.

[anonemouse 1]

To expect me to keep my faith to myself is to ask me to not practice my faith.

No one has asked you to keep your faith to yourself. We would just like you to show a little respect to us and our faith systems (or lack thereof).

[gadgetlady 4]

Neither do I, and neither do most of us. I haven't seen that claim made here.

I'd lay odds there are several on this thread that equate the two. I'm not going to name names, but the silence (other than you and laurend) is deafening.

[Ron Cusano 0]

To be honest, I think that has been expressed and certainly implied but at least two that come to mind.

Neither do I, and neither do most of us. I haven't seen that claim made here.

[gadgetlady 4]

To be honest, I think that has been expressed and certainly implied but at least two that come to mind.

Now that I think more about it, I believe it has been said outright. I don't have the time or energy to find it, though, as I'm running out the door to pick my daughter up from [gasp] our fundamentalist Christian church.

[anonemouse 1]

I'm not going to name names, but the silence (other than you and laurend) is deafening.

LBT was also down for a few minutes. Some people may not have checked the thread again.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I do and have said so repeatedly. Trying to engage discussion on beliefs or non-beliefs if not disrespectful in the least. And, I have had some interesting, sincere exchanges with some, but what seems to happen, is that a few agitators feel obligated to jump in to provoke and mock, and we deteriorate back into the abyss!!

No one has asked you to keep your faith to yourself. We would just like you to show a little respect to us and our faith systems (or lack thereof).

[anonemouse 1]

I do and have said so repeatedly. Trying to engage discussion on beliefs or non-beliefs if not disrespectful in the least. And, I have had some interesting, sincere exchanges with some, but what seems to happen, is that a few agitators feel obligated to jump in to provoke and mock, and we deteriorate back into the abyss!!

Ron, saying you respect the beliefs of others isn't the same thing as showing that respect. Yes, you have said that you respect our beliefs, but you haven't shown that respect.

[Ron Cusano 0]

OK! Tell me specifically how you fell I was disrespectful of others beliefs at ay time that I was no first provoked or mocked! Show me!!

Ron, saying you respect the beliefs of others isn't the same thing as showing that respect. Yes, you have said that you respect our beliefs, but you haven't shown that respect.

[mdicurn 0]

Ron, your arrogance is amazing. I too have been offended by some of the remarks by non-beleivers. I have stated my faith and my beleifs. I can not force someone to respect me. You might have heard the old saying that respect is earned. I truely beleive that some of the hurtfull comments about Christianity came about as a result of your posts. Some were just mean spirited and getting outwardly upset will do nothing to make that person change, it only fuels the fire. God does give us free will as you stated. It is our job to bring the message to non-believers, but no where does the bible state that we should pick fights with them if they don't agree. So maybe shame on Lisa and me, but you know what? I am still very secure in my beleifs and the way I present myself.

Neal,

Thank you for being a voice of reason in a cacophony of insanity. There are a number of Christians here who are offended not just by the animosity toward our religious beliefs, but also the way our beliefs are being portrayed. I tried to voice that sentiment 20 pages ago. This is not about the Word of G-d, but personal battle of wills on both sides. This saddens me a great deal.

My belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of G-d and that he died for my sins and was resurrected on the 3rd day does not mean that I am weak willed or in need of "myths" to guide me through a life that is too scary without them; nor do I feel the need to force my beliefs on anyone else. I personally do not believe that the Koran is the word of G-d or that the "god" of the Koran is the same as the G-d of the bible, even though the players are the same the message is substantially different. However, I do realize that there are a great many good people wo do not share this belief.

The best thing that I can do, as a Christian, is not to profess my beliefs so vehemently that I drown out the voice of reason, but to make every attempt to LIVE that life as an example to those who might learn from it.

Just as I feel that Ron may have lost his way in all of this, I also believe that there are those on the opposite side of the debate who are relishing in the error of his ways in order to give voice to their own agenda.

[anonemouse 1]

OK! Tell me specifically how you fell I was disrespectful of others beliefs at ay time that I was no first provoked or mocked! Show me!!

Okay...

When this thread first started, you implied that atheists were ignorant and uneducated. That isn't respect. And to be honest, your responses to people challenging you over it came across as mocking.

You've told some of the Christians here that they didn't know what they were talking about and that they weren't good Christians.

You've called us desparate and vultures, you've implied that no one knows as much as you about Christianity and its values, you've used patronizing language, you've called people dishonest, you've called others "spiritually blind", you've implied that atheists are as bad as thieves, liars, murderers, and bigots, you've compared us to Sodomites, you've compared us to roaches (crawling out of the woodwork). Shall I continue?

[BJean 16]

mdicurn: I've been trying to sit back and read and to stop being so passionate and feeling so disturbed about some of the things that have been said here. I've been trying to be objective about both sides in this argument.

You have done a really good job of stating how you feel in a very calm, confident way. And I share in many of the same feelings that you expressed.

In your last sentence you say that you believe that there are people on the opposite side of the fence from Ron who are relishing in the error of his ways in order to give voice to their own agenda. It is true that I am glad that his errors have become so apparent, but not because of a political agenda. I am glad because I want people to know that the Bible does not say that to spread the word, you must hound people and belittle people who do not respond to your mission.

This type of behavior by a Christian(s) has caused great discomfort to some of us and it's no surprise to anyone that we are relieved to see that most people posting here have apparently finally gotten the message.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

With evangelical christianity the two become one because part of the tenents of our faith is that we need to share it with others. We do that by sharing the biblical truths that we believe. Apparently, sharing what I believe, and sharing it to be untimate truth, which I believe it to be, is what everyone gets upset about.

To expect me to keep my faith to myself is to ask me to not practice my faith.

Part of the tenets of your faith is that you need to share it with others you claim, but I doubt that any of the tenets of your faith is that you need to shove it down the throats of others.

When you and I debate, I tell you want I think, and you tell me what you know. If you would express faith as faith, instead of faith as knowledge, we could debate and maybe even argue, but when you are 100% sure of your righteousness, we talk past each other without listening.

I and at least one other person in this thread has mentioned that faith is not knowing, that if you know, then you do not need faith.

I have faith that the Bible is accurate (lets not debate figurative or literal right now), but you have knowledge that the Bible is accurate. Your proof is the Bible; "Scriptures interpret scriptures."

"I feel that you should..." goes a lot further than "I know that you must...".

Did you really want to talk about antisemitism in France?

Hitler claimed to be a Christian and you say he wasn't. BuSh says he is a Christian who takes his orders from Jesus. Do you believe BuSh? I don't. We can discuss that. Why would you believe one and not the other?

No one is attacking your faith. We are attacking your idea that your faith is the only valid faith, because it can be proven. If it could be proven, it would not be faith.

[gadgetlady 4]

I'd lay odds there are several on this thread that equate the two. I'm not going to name names, but the silence (other than you and laurend) is deafening.

I've been gone for a while and I'm still hearing crickets. Alexandra and laurend, I think you'd be surprised with how many people equate fanaticism and fundamentalism.