Anti-Semitism In France!

[gadgetlady 4]

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534

Today, 11:23 AM

Ron Cusano vbmenu_register("postmenu_378473", true);

Shiloh

Join Date: Jan 2007

Age: 62

Posts: 200

I agree with you! Women have no place using a prayer shawl. You will get no argument from me!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlueSue

"Completed Jews" may be their terminology, but to Judaism they are still considered Christians. However, this still doesn't really answer my original question - why would Christian women use Jewish mens' ritual objects while worshipping Jesus? Just saying that real Christians learn about Judaism b/c Jesus was Jewish just doesn't answer it. I know lots of Christians who are very conversant with Judaism who would never DREAM of utilizing Jewish ritual objects for their own purposes.

The use of bold type and capital letters led me to believe that he felt strongly on it. The rest I inferred from reading the entire thread.

Oh -- I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as he objected to the practice because of the traditional history of Judiasm. I will let Ron speak for himself on this one, but I really don't think he believes women are substandard or inferior.

(In case you hadn't guessed, I don't think they are, either ).

[Ron Cusano 0]

You inferred wrong!

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534

Today, 11:23 AM

Ron Cusano vbmenu_register("postmenu_378473", true);

Shiloh

Join Date: Jan 2007

Age: 62

Posts: 200

I agree with you! Women have no place using a prayer shawl. You will get no argument from me!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlueSue

"Completed Jews" may be their terminology, but to Judaism they are still considered Christians. However, this still doesn't really answer my original question - why would Christian women use Jewish mens' ritual objects while worshipping Jesus? Just saying that real Christians learn about Judaism b/c Jesus was Jewish just doesn't answer it. I know lots of Christians who are very conversant with Judaism who would never DREAM of utilizing Jewish ritual objects for their own purposes.

The use of bold type and capital letters led me to believe that he felt strongly on it. The rest I inferred from reading the entire thread.

[ousooner 1]

Well, it appears that Ron is no longer responding to attacks, and I commend him for his restraint.

Can we take this thread back to yesterday? I asked a question of people who call themselves Christ-followers (both Catholic and Protestant) but don't take the Bible literally. No one answered me except TOM, who told me he wouldn't answer because it was a personal question (which I find interesting because there are lots of other personal questions that he and others answer). So will anyone else answer?

Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, and that He was resurrected on the third day?

I'll bite, my answer is yes.

[Ron Cusano 0]

As is mine!!

I'll bite, my answer is yes.

[BJean 16]

Ron that's what I'm talking about. As far as I'm concerned you may have been listening afterall, contrary to my earlier belief.

I commend you for not going berserk to TOMs post. You said you disagree. You said he's entitled to his opinion. No lengthy diatribe, no insults, etc. Good for you.

[gadgetlady 4]

I'll bite, my answer is yes.

Thank you, Neal. I have no intention of flaming you, BTW. I just want to understand. You don't believe in the Bible literally, but you do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, and that He was resurrected on the third day. Why do you believe that? Again, I'm not being snide. I really do want to understand the reasoning.

[gadgetlady 4]

Oh, gosh, I think I need to clarify again. There are so many posts flying back and forth I don't think anyone is reading carefully. The question was not for everyone on the board, but for those who do NOT believe the Bible is literal and yet still call themselves Christians.

[TruBlueSue 0]

Seems like you already have your mind made up on the authority of the Bible. You are entitled to your opinion. I wholeheartedly disagree.

So the Christian bible is the only divinely inspired 'book' in the world. Wow. I kinda thought that humanity, being G-Ds children, ALL had a bit of the divine in them, and that creation, whether artistic or intellectual, was ALL divinely inspired. What is most apparent to me in this whole thread, Ron, GadgetLady, and everyone else, is that the differing religions truly have different ways of emphasizing their tenents. Christianity seems to be (based on what you've said Ron - I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong) all about an individual's PERSONAL relationship with G-D. Judaism, in contrast, is all about an individual's relationship with his/her COMMUNITY - and thereby to the divine. We look at the world as a series of human relationships, imperfect, that G-D WANTS our help in perfecting. By doing so, we bring a bit of the kingdom of heaven to earth. Conversely, we can create hell on earth for ourselves and the people around us by having dysfunctional relationships and therefore a dysfunctional relationship with G-D.

And Gadget, I wasn't trying to be a smart a#$ when I answered your question about believing in JC - I merely wanted to reflect the pluralism I've found to be so refreshing on LBT.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

BJean, I have to give you props for bringing up (again) the issue that the G-D of the Koran is the SAME G-D of the Tanakh and the SAME G-D as the Christian bible. I would even go farther by saying if you READ the Koran IN ARABIC (which is considered the only true way to READ Koran - Muslims the world over learn Arabic to be able to read their holy book in the mother tongue) you would recognise many many of the stories and figures. In fact, if you read the FIRST S'ura (verse) in which G-D addresses Mohammed - the first thing said by G-D is not "write down everything I say word for word..." NO - the FIRST thing G-D does in the Koran is the emphatic command "Ikra!" which means (go ahead and look it up if you want) "Recite". G-D was telling Mohammed to MEMORIZE AND RECITE AFTER HIM the things he wanted written, which was then done. ONE MAN, ONE LANGUAGE, ONE VERSION for all time - NOT the multiple translations, mistranslations, distortions, the the Bible has gone through. Muslims see Islam as the 'perfection' of the Jewish and Christian faiths through the 'corrections' one sees in the Koran - Surely these believers have the right to say that their book is as holy as those compliled by many men, in many languages, interpreted time and again, translated again, for 2000+ years? You can believe whatever you want, but to say that the way you believe, Ron, is the only way and to say that any other divinely inspired tome is NOT is facile. If you don't study the book and the tenets of the religion IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE RELIGION, then don't you see that all you really have is someone else's interpretation of the subject? And, before you jump in and question MY scholarship, I WILL give you some idea of my background, since you already know I'm Jewish (and probably have horns and a tail)

I grew up in Saudi Arabia - that's right, the home of Islam, Mohammed, and Mecca. I learned Arabic there while going to school. Once I left Arabia (and no, I wasn't in Arab schools, etc. - I was an oilfield brat) I went to college, where I earned a BA and MA in Middle East languages (Arabic and Hebrew ) and Political Science. I THEN joined the US Army, determined to give something back to the country that allows me, as a female, to be so well educated and to live MY Jewish life. I served TWO tours in Iraq in Civil Affairs, working as a translator and cultural resource for Allied forces. NEVER there was I denigrated or treated poorly for being Jewish - I was treated well SPECIFICALLY because I knew the culture, language, and respected their religion! Isn't that what America, the land I signed up to serve, the land I was proud to represent in uniform, supposed to be a beacon, a bastion of the same? Your ilk would have us treating Muslims as 'Dhimmi' e.g., the way Christians and Jews were treated in 11th Century Islamic Spain, for example. I, for one, would say NO to that.

Thank you for a wonderful lesson.

I have read the Qur'an (Yusufali translation) from cover to cover and use a website that allows me to find Suras that contains topics I want to quote by keyword. I read the Qur'an to increase my knowledge and to help me be more tolerant of what I expected to be a belligerent religion. Instead, I found less belligerence than in the Old Testament. Moses was the person most mentioned in the Qur'an, though Allah was the name most mentioned (but he is not a person). Jesus was spoken of more that Mohammed.

[TruBlueSue 0]

Ron, my apologies then to you for inferring that your use of bold type and capitalization to mean something other than you did.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I certainly do not think that women are inferior or substandard in any way, shape or form! I believe that God has different roles for men and women withing the family, society and the church. Both are vital and of great value. The scriptures say for men to "love your wives as you love yourselves"! The church, the family and society could not function without women. I hope that clarifies it if anyone had any question on what i believe.

Oh -- I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as he objected to the practice because of the traditional history of Judiasm. I will let Ron speak for himself on this one, but I really don't think he believes women are substandard or inferior.

(In case you hadn't guessed, I don't think they are, either ).

[Ron Cusano 0]

Thank-you!

Ron, my apologies then to you for inferring that your use of bold type and capitalization to mean something other than you did.

[ousooner 1]

Thank you, Neal. I have no intention of flaming you, BTW. I just want to understand. You don't believe in the Bible literally, but you do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, and that He was resurrected on the third day. Why do you believe that? Again, I'm not being snide. I really do want to understand the reasoning.

 

No problem, I see you posted a clarification below this one. I do believe in the bible literally. I just think this thread is doing more harm than good, thats why I have spoken out against Ron's method. I don't disagree with most of his theological points. I will be the first to admit I am hypocritical at times as I don't always live up to my belief system, but I know what I believe and what I don't.

[TruBlueSue 0]

TOM, a very good translation is the Atterberry (I think Penguin books). Yusufali is a good translation in that it preserves the sense of the Arabic; Atterberry tries to preserve the majesty of the language as well.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

You know my belief on that so what's to respond to? Why beat a dead horse. I do not believe the Qur'an to be of spiritual authority or the God of the Qur'an to be the same as the God of the Bible. You believe otherwise. So what do you want to discuss??

Who do you think is going to win the Super Bowl on Sunday?