Anti-Semitism In France!

[TommyO 5]

I dare say, based on a certain interpretation, heaven will include only two people God and Himself, and that may still be only be a single person.

Please do tell where you studied for 30 years so I can be certain to avoid that institution. From what I can gather someone spent 30 years studying to become narrow minded. I would only be guessing but I bet the 30 years was spent validating an already intolerant view. That may have been all you were willing to learn, that and at least one Johnny cash song.

I have nothing to back this up but I can't help but think that someone may get a big surprise when they get to the pearly gates

[Sunta 5]

Or could it be that those who oppose the truth are the sourse of the hatred and rebellion against God?

By "the Truth" are you referring to the mythological figure of Jesus?

I never saw an atheist start a war against God. Have you?

However I have seen plenty of wars started in the name of different mythological figures. In fact, that's how the majority of wars start.

I can't even imagine atheists starting a war to try to stop people from worshipping whatever God they want. It's the people who cling to the belief in a mythological figure (because life is too scary without something to believe in) who start the wars.

[BJean 16]

mdicurn: That would be a sensible plan of action.

However, let me encourage you to visit all the threads that offer support to Lap Bandsters. It is very helpful, especially when you are just beginning your journey. There are many very wonderful people here who are happy and encouraging and helpful.

Welcome!

[ousooner 1]

I can't even imagine atheists starting a war to try to stop people from worshipping whatever God they want. It's the people who cling to the belief in a mythological figure (because life is too scary without something to believe in) who start the wars.

That statement is as insensative and hurtful and narrowminded as the things Ron has been saying.

[Ron Cusano 0]

You said you werm't going to post to this thread anymore, and yet, here you are. I guess you just can't resist.

I am not going to allow you to bait me anymore. I am going to ignore you unless you have something constructive to add. It's just not worth the effort!

I dare say, based on a certain interpretation, heaven will include only two people God and Himself, and that may still be only be a single person.

Please do tell where you studied for 30 years so I can be certain to avoid that institution. From what I can gather someone spent 30 years studying to become narrow minded. I would only be guessing but I bet the 30 years was spent validating an already intolerant view. That may have been all you were willing to learn, that and at least one Johnny cash song.

I have nothing to back this up but I can't help but think that someone may get a big surprise when they get to the pearly gates

[Sunta 5]

That statement is as insensative and hurtful and narrowminded as the things Ron has been saying.

Listen, I'm just stating matter-of-factly what I believe to be true, in my heart. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or try to stop people from freely worshipping and believing what they want. However it does not change my feeling that Jesus is mythology, and that belief in him or other Gods sprang up because the idea that there is nothing beyond the here and now, is just too scary for human beings to cope with.

The fact of the matter is, and the truth of the matter is, that it is people of religion who start wars over their religion.

I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but it is still the truth.

[mdicurn 0]

mdicurn: That would be a sensible plan of action.

However, let me encourage you to visit all the threads that offer support to Lap Bandsters. It is very helpful, especially when you are just beginning your journey. There are many very wonderful people here who are happy and encouraging and helpful.

Welcome!

Thanks Bjean! I have been lurking around for a couple of weeks. I just don't post much. Now where did I put that Kevlar catalog...

[TruBlueSue 0]

BJean, I have to give you props for bringing up (again) the issue that the G-D of the Koran is the SAME G-D of the Tanakh and the SAME G-D as the Christian bible. I would even go farther by saying if you READ the Koran IN ARABIC (which is considered the only true way to READ Koran - Muslims the world over learn Arabic to be able to read their holy book in the mother tongue) you would recognise many many of the stories and figures. In fact, if you read the FIRST S'ura (verse) in which G-D addresses Mohammed - the first thing said by G-D is not "write down everything I say word for word..." NO - the FIRST thing G-D does in the Koran is the emphatic command "Ikra!" which means (go ahead and look it up if you want) "Recite". G-D was telling Mohammed to MEMORIZE AND RECITE AFTER HIM the things he wanted written, which was then done. ONE MAN, ONE LANGUAGE, ONE VERSION for all time - NOT the multiple translations, mistranslations, distortions, the the Bible has gone through. Muslims see Islam as the 'perfection' of the Jewish and Christian faiths through the 'corrections' one sees in the Koran - Surely these believers have the right to say that their book is as holy as those compliled by many men, in many languages, interpreted time and again, translated again, for 2000+ years? You can believe whatever you want, but to say that the way you believe, Ron, is the only way and to say that any other divinely inspired tome is NOT is facile. If you don't study the book and the tenets of the religion IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE RELIGION, then don't you see that all you really have is someone else's interpretation of the subject? And, before you jump in and question MY scholarship, I WILL give you some idea of my background, since you already know I'm Jewish (and probably have horns and a tail)

I grew up in Saudi Arabia - that's right, the home of Islam, Mohammed, and Mecca. I learned Arabic there while going to school. Once I left Arabia (and no, I wasn't in Arab schools, etc. - I was an oilfield brat) I went to college, where I earned a BA and MA in Middle East languages (Arabic and Hebrew ) and Political Science. I THEN joined the US Army, determined to give something back to the country that allows me, as a female, to be so well educated and to live MY Jewish life. I served TWO tours in Iraq in Civil Affairs, working as a translator and cultural resource for Allied forces. NEVER there was I denigrated or treated poorly for being Jewish - I was treated well SPECIFICALLY because I knew the culture, language, and respected their religion! Isn't that what America, the land I signed up to serve, the land I was proud to represent in uniform, supposed to be a beacon, a bastion of the same? Your ilk would have us treating Muslims as 'Dhimmi' e.g., the way Christians and Jews were treated in 11th Century Islamic Spain, for example. I, for one, would say NO to that.

[BJean 16]

Ron that's exactly my point. You are busily trying to convince people that there is proof, undeniable, substantiated PROOF. Not everyone interprets that what you say or even what the Bible says is absolute PROOF. You come off as a bully because you insist, INSIST that they are wrong for not accepting what YOU know. What I know is that your interpretation of proof in the Bible is not accepted as absolute in most people's interpretation of the Bible. That's not to say that someone who wants to live by the Scriptures, doesn't believe them with all of their heart. The mystifying thing to me is that you seem to be accusing them of not being capable of believing the Scriptures and in God, without the incontrovertible proof that you believe and feel that everyone should accept. Sorry, ain't happening. No matter how many times or ways that you say it. No matter how strong your language, no matter how vehemently you declare that they are going to hell. And the longer that you spout off, the less of a chance that someone here is going to embrace the teachings in the Bible.

[ousooner 1]

That statement is as insensative and hurtful and narrowminded as the things Ron has been saying.

Listen, I'm just stating matter-of-factly what I believe to be true, in my heart. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or try to stop people from freely worshipping and believing what they want. However it does not change my feeling that Jesus is mythology, and that belief in him or other Gods sprang up because the idea that there is nothing beyond the here and now, is just too scary for human beings to cope with.

The fact of the matter is, and the truth of the matter is, that it is people of religion who start wars over their religion.

I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but it is still the truth.

THe truth doesn't in this case. Maybe I should have norrowed down the quote. You have every right to believe Jesus is mythological. Obviously we can agree to disagree on that. I think the part that caught me was you stating that only people who think life is too scary to live without something to beleive in beleive in God. To imply that people with a religious faith (of any faith) only believe because they are not well adjusted people is very narrow-minded. All I am asking, and remember I am against how Ron is coming across on this thread, is that you don't act the same way he does. Just asking for respect. I feel I am a very well rounded person. Thanks.

[BJean 16]

TruBluSue: Now YOU on the other hand, have lots of respect from the likes of me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. For so many things on so many levels, thank you.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I understand that not everyone believes what I believes or is convinced by scriptural evidence, but that does not change my beliefs. I insist my beliefs are correct because that is what I truly believe. I make no apoligies for standing up for what I believe.

Ron that's exactly my point. You are busily trying to convince people that there is proof, undeniable, substantiated PROOF. Not everyone interprets that what you say or even what the Bible says is absolute PROOF. You come off as a bully because you insist, INSIST that they are wrong for not accepting what YOU know. What I know is that your interpretation of proof in the Bible is not accepted as absolute in most people's interpretation of the Bible. That's not to say that someone who wants to live by the Scriptures, doesn't believe them with all of their heart. The mystifying thing to me is that you seem to be accusing them of not being capable of believing the Scriptures and in God, without the incontrovertible proof that you believe and feel that everyone should accept. Sorry, ain't happening. No matter how many times or ways that you say it. No matter how strong your language, no matter how vehemently you declare that they are going to hell. And the longer that you spout off, the less of a chance that someone here is going to embrace the teachings in the Bible.

[BJean 16]

Please, please, please Ron understand that most of the protestors here are not protesting your beliefs.

Even the atheists aren't protesting your beliefs as much as your "message" and the fact that you aren't cutting anyone else slack or giving them respect for their beliefs, since they are not YOUR beliefs.

[Sunta 5]

I think the part that caught me was you stating that only people who think life is too scary to live without something to beleive in beleive in God. To imply that people with a religious faith (of any faith) only believe because they are not well adjusted people is very narrow-minded. All I am asking, and remember I am against how Ron is coming across on this thread, is that you don't act the same way he does. Just asking for respect. I feel I am a very well rounded person. Thanks.

Gosh, I'm sorry how it came off. I did not mean to imply that any people who believe in any religion are not well-rounded. Certainly there are very well-rounded, intelligent, wonderful people who believe in God. Actually, I am not an atheist. I believe in a higher power other than, but also within, ourselves. I was referring more to people who are fundamentalists. It is fundamentalists who do start most of the wars throughout history.

When I said "life is too scary to not believe in something" I meant that these "Gods" who cropped up through history are, in my opinion, myths used to explain the unexplainable. I don't think "God" ever came down to earth or was/is ever embodied in a specific person, and certainly I don't believe that any one myth has any more merit than any other (Jesus vs. Allah for example).

But I did not mean to say that everyone who believes in something is not well-rounded, so I'm sorry if that's how it appeared.

[TommyO 5]

He's on the hook,

Oh and by the way I also thought I wasn't going to post here but I can't resist. You make me want to fish. If Jesus was a fisher of men then I can be a fisher bitter little men.

Now go ahead swallow