Anti-Semitism In France!

[gadgetlady 4]

Someone wayyyy back asked about why non-Jews studied Judiasm. I don't remember the exact question or issue that was addressed, but I wanted to mention something out of an article I was just reading tonight.

The article addressed how God refers to Himself as Father to the orphans and Defender of the widows, and how He calls us to be advocates for them as well. I assume most if not all of you have heard of this (if you need references please lmk). Well, the article goes on to point out that the Hebrew word for widow, almanah, refers not only to a woman whose husband dies, but also a woman who is left without a provider for any reason. In the New Testament Greek the word for widow, cheras, refers to a woman who has lost her husband in any way, be it death, divorce, desertion, or imprisionment. So when God calls us to care for widows, he is including those who are divorced or abandoned, really anyone who is in the state of lonliness, abandonment, or helplessness, not just women who have lost their husbands to death.

When you go back and study the culture and the language in which the text was written, new things are constantly opened up for you. This is precisely the reason non-Jews turn to Jewish culture and language to better understand Scripture. I hope that helps whoever asked or wondered about it!

[TruBlueSue 0]

That was me who wondered about non-Jews - and the particular question was directed at a woman who said she "wrapped herself in Tallit" Tallit is a Jewish prayer shawl, and , being Jewish, I asked aloud why a Christian WOMAN would take a MAN's ritual obligation and use it in some sort of Christian worship. (Women taking on men's ritual obligations is something expressly forbidden in Judaism - almost akin to cross-dressing in the sense that women have their own ritual obligations and that the obligations on the sexes are different EXPRESSLY due to the reasoning that men and women need different reminders of the divine in their everyday pursuits.)

[Ron Cusano 0]

As a Gentile who personally knows many, many Jews who Believe in Jesus, I know of none that would advocate a women using a Tallit. In fact, messianiac Jews believe that Jesus fulfilled the Law and it is not imcumbent upon them to follow the Law of Moses. In it's place is a better law, as prophisized by the Jewish Prophet Jeremiah 31: 31-33 where God promises Israel a "New Covenent" unlike the covenent He made with their fathers through Moses. They believe that that new covenent came with Messiah who became their final atonement for sin.

Some asked why non-Jews study Judiasm!! Because everything about true Christianity is Jewish!! We study and believe in the Jewish scriptures, both Old & New Testaments, which were written by Jews, for Jews about the God of Israel and the messiah.

That was me who wondered about non-Jews - and the particular question was directed at a woman who said she "wrapped herself in Tallit" Tallit is a Jewish prayer shawl, and , being Jewish, I asked aloud why a Christian WOMAN would take a MAN's ritual obligation and use it in some sort of Christian worship. (Women taking on men's ritual obligations is something expressly forbidden in Judaism - almost akin to cross-dressing in the sense that women have their own ritual obligations and that the obligations on the sexes are different EXPRESSLY due to the reasoning that men and women need different reminders of the divine in their everyday pursuits.)

[wavydaby 1]

Oops, I think you misunderstood, Ron. I was responding to wavydaby, who said her Bible was Catholic.

Sorry Gadgetlady, was talking to Ron,

From whom I am getting the impression that since I am Christian, but dont think like he does, I am still gonna burn for it. Will I? I'll Take it up with God when I get there.

I believe in the Big bang theory.

I beilieve in evolution-- if that aint free will in action, i dont know what is.

I believe in quantum physics and Einstien's theory

I believe that any two people who love each other have the legal right to claim marriage.

I believe in God the almighty, maker of heaven and earth, all that is seen and unseen.

I am tired of people who tell my that since I dont believe the way that they do, I'm not good enough.

When I pray, I get responses. I must be doing something right.

Goodbye to this thread.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Jill,

Please allow me to clarify something! I think you are mixing up salvation with the tenents of biblical Christianity.

Jesus said, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever benieveth in His should not perish, but have eternal life"! That spells out the requirements for eternal life! Beliving in the Biblical Jesus!! If you believe that jesus was who He claimed to be, did what He claimed to do, died for your sins to make you right with God, rose on the third day, and is coming again, then you have eternal life and will not go to Hell. It is as simple as that. Salvation is a free gift from God and all we need to go is humbly accept it.

Everything else takes second place to salvation. While I may disagree with you on your other the beliefs you mentioned, and while I believe that they are not consistant with what the Bible say's, there is room for disagreement that does not affect one's salvation. It does not mean you are going to Hell!

Sorry Gadgetlady, was talking to Ron,

From whom I am getting the impression that since I am Christian, but dont think like he does, I am still gonna burn for it. Will I? I'll Take it up with God when I get there.

I believe in the Big bang theory.

I beilieve in evolution-- if that aint free will in action, i dont know what is.

I believe in quantum physics and Einstien's theory

I believe that any two people who love each other have the legal right to claim marriage.

I believe in God the almighty, maker of heaven and earth, all that is seen and unseen.

I am tired of people who tell my that since I dont believe the way that they do, I'm not good enough.

When I pray, I get responses. I must be doing something right.

Goodbye to this thread.

[TruBlueSue 0]

Ron, the Jews I know (including myself) call those Jews who believe that Jesus was/is/could be the messiah Christians! Those of us who hold to the Law of Moses and believe that Moschiach is yet to come point out that the events promised by G-D that would happen when Moshiach comes DID NOT HAPPEN when Jesus was around...ergo, we're still awaiting Moshiach.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I'm not screaming. But you didn't answer the question. I did not ask what FORM Jesus took when He was resurrected. I'm asking if you (and others) believe that He was the Son of God and if He was, indeed, resurrected after His crucifixion. It seems to me to be a pretty straightforward question.

It may be a straight forward question, but it seems to have a reason behind it, one that questions my faith.

Both you and Ron, and many other members at this LBT board and other boards, and people whom I have met in person have told me that salvation comes through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. How personal can my relationship be if I have to explain it? Wasn't it sufficient to read that I wrote:

I accept Jesus. That should be good enough for you.

OR

It comes from my personal faith and I don't have to share that with you...I will say, (probably against my better judgment), that is by biblical implication, though not by "word for word"...If you can not understand that, maybe it is God's way of allowing each of his children to come toward him in their own free (willed) way.

You keep saying that a person needs a personal relationship with Jesus and then you question and question and try to point out the correct way, until it becomes obvious, that my personal relationship is not good enough, that I must have your (type of) personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Gadgetlady, I doubt that you realize that you are doing it, just as I doubt my grandparents knew that they were doing it when they went up to people trying to enjoy dinner in a Chinese restaurant and tried to give them their pamphlets on salvation, just as I doubt many other members here at LBT and other boards realize what they are doing, But Ron, I think you know exactly what you are doing and no matter how much you feign innocence or ignorance or how indignant you become, you will not change my opinion.

None of you has a right to question why I accept Jesus. You didn't even have a right to know whether I do or do not or whether anyone else does, or who they worship. But I communicated the information to you. I was not trying to prove a political, scientific or legal point, but just telling you, that you needn't be concerned about my salvation.

When someone uses religion as a reason for backing a political candidate or a political argument, then since they have brought up their religion as the reason, it is a legitimate topic.

When someone uses religion as a reason for disagreeing with a scientific policy or theory, then since they have brought up their religion as the reason, it is a legitimate topic.

When someone uses religion as a reason for disagreeing with a law or legal ruling, then since they have brought up their religion as the reason, it is a legitimate topic.

It is however none of anyone's business to know why or how I worship. I gave more than enough information when I said.

I accept Jesus. That should be good enough for you.

And that should be and will have to be good enough for you.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I certainly understand that and respect that. Tanach paints 2-differerent pictures of Moschiach! The Rabbi's refer to them as Messiah ben Yoseph - the suffrering Messiah and Messiah ben David - the kingly Messiah. It Talmud it speculated that perhaps there are two Messiahs.

Many believe that this speaks to one Messiah, coming at two different times for two different purposes. We believe that Yeshua posessed all the messianiac credentials, and came the first time, as the "suffering Messiah" as spoken of by the prphpeh Isaiah, Chapter 53, for instance, where we are told we need to "make His soul our offering for sin". We also believe that Messiah will return again at the end of the age, as the kingly Messiah to establish His Davidic kingdom with Israel and the world.

Yes, Jews and Gentiles who believe as we do are called Christians, because the literal meaning of the word is "followers of Jesus". Many Jews who follow Jesus call themselves "completed Jews" because they feel complete when embrasing their Messiah.

[GeezerSue 7]

Our daughter's friend has a five-year-old. He has an imaginary friend. AND he has a little brother who is three and is, of course, strongly influenced by the big brother.

Now the boys argue about who gets to sit next to the imaginary friend AND about what, exactly, the imaginary friend said.

So I feel right at home watching all of this.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Your beliefs are your own and no one has a problem with that. I, and I guess others are just trying to understand what you are saying and make some sense out of it from our perspective. I have no illusion of you believing as I do, I am just asking sincere questions about things that you stated.

It may be a straight forward question, but it seems to have a reason behind it, one that questions my faith.

Both you and Ron, and many other members at this LBT board and other boards, and people whom I have met in person have told me that salvation comes through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. How personal can my relationship be if I have to explain it? Wasn't it sufficient to read that I wrote:

OR

You keep saying that a person needs a personal relationship with Jesus and then you question and question and try to point out the correct way, until it becomes obvious, that my personal relationship is not good enough, that I must have your (type of) personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Gadgetlady, I doubt that you realize that you are doing it, just as I doubt my grandparents knew that they were doing it when they went up to people trying to enjoy dinner in a Chinese restaurant and tried to give them their pamphlets on salvation, just as I doubt many other members here at LBT and other boards realize what they are doing, But Ron, I think you know exactly what you are doing and no matter how much you feign innocence or ignorance or how indignant you become, you will not change my opinion.

None of you has a right to question why I accept Jesus. You didn't even have a right to know whether I do or do not or whether anyone else does, or who they worship. But I communicated the information to you. I was not trying to prove a political, scientific or legal point, but just telling you, that you needn't be concerned about my salvation.

When someone uses religion as a reason for backing a political candidate or a political argument, then since they have brought up their religion as the reason, it is a legitimate topic.

When someone uses religion as a reason for disagreeing with a scientific policy or theory, then since they have brought up their religion as the reason, it is a legitimate topic.

When someone uses religion as a reason for disagreeing with a law or legal ruling, then since they have brought up their religion as the reason, it is a legitimate topic.

It is however none of anyone's business to know why or how I worship. I gave more than enough information when I said. And that should be and will have to be good enough for you.

[Ron Cusano 0]

A child that I knew was warned constantly about going out into the street. He didn't heed the warning and one day he was hit by a car and died. He apparently didn't comprehend the warning or just disregarded it. That is what I feel I am watching!!

Our daughter's friend has a five-year-old. He has an imaginary friend. AND he has a little brother who is three and is, of course, strongly influenced by the big brother.

Now the boys argue about who gets to sit next to the imaginary friend AND about what, exactly, the imaginary friend said.

So I feel right at home watching all of this.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Your beliefs are your own and no one has a problem with that. I, and I guess others are just trying to understand what you are saying and make some sense out of it from our perspective. I have no illusion of you believing as I do, I am just asking sincere questions about things that you stated.

Maybe I am being unfair to you, but the way you have come off (IMNSHO) is that when you say, "I guess others are just trying to understand what you are saying" it means to me that you are trying to question me until I accept your way.

Maybe I am being unfair to you, but I doubt it.

[lisah25 3]

I have considered and already addressed the issue. I admittedly allowed myself to react to deliverate provocation, and allowed my emotions to

come out. It is interesting that you find so much fault with things that I have said, but don't mention anything about those who constantly, continually and delibretely provoked it.

I have addressed that.

While you have remained silent, there have be a number of other Believers who were as appalled as I was, and expressed so in support. I fact, one jumped in in support right from the beginning because of the way I was "ganged up on" - her words! There is more then enough blame to go around here.

I haven't remained silent on this thread, I just don't agree with your view of what happened.

[Ron Cusano 0]

That is not what5 I am saying. From my (our) perspective, in order to accept Jesus you need to know Him from a biblical context. You obviously do not agree with the, so what is being asked is by context do you have an understanding of Jesus aside from the scriptures! It's a legitimate question!

Maybe I am being unfair to you, but the way you have come off (IMNSHO) is that when you say, "I guess others are just trying to understand what you are saying" it means to me that you are trying to question me until I accept your way.

Maybe I am being unfair to you, but I doubt it.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Ron, the Jews I know (including myself) call those Jews who believe that Jesus was/is/could be the messiah Christians! Those of us who hold to the Law of Moses and believe that Moschiach is yet to come point out that the events promised by G-D that would happen when Moshiach comes DID NOT HAPPEN when Jesus was around...ergo, we're still awaiting Moshiach.

I have had many discussions with Jewish friends (some that kept us up all night in college) and I also believe that your way and their way of worship is as valid as any Christian way.

Even the "Holy Qur'an" says that Jews, Christians and Muslims have equal rights to Heaven.

But even if the "Holy Qur'an" didn't say that, I doubt that the God would allow Moses or Noah, or any of their followers who keep the faith to be pushed out of Heaven by Christians or the ideas of Christians.

Maybe God has put out all these contradictory ideas to test us. That would be compatible with God's MO. Look at Babylon for example.