Anti-Semitism In France!

[Ron Cusano 0]

I accept your right to believe any way you choose. I to know ministers of liberal Christian church's that believe as you do, but I certainly don't agree with them. They too can believe as they choose.

I don't question that you "accept Jesus"! What I asked you, and this is a sincere question, on what basis and by what authority do you accept Him, if not by biblical implecation? Where does your understanding and belief come from? Isn't that a fair question to ask on this subject??

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I accept your right to believe any way you choose. I to know ministers of liberal Christian church's that believe as you do, but I certainly don't agree with them. They too can believe as they choose.

I don't question that you "accept Jesus"! What I asked you, and this is a sincere question, on what basis and by what authority do you accept Him, if not by biblical implecation? Where does your understanding and belief come from? Isn't that a fair question to ask on this subject??

It comes from my personal faith and I don't have to share that with you. I am not on a mission to make people conform to my faith system. Maybe you KNOW, but I only think, that there is a God and that following the teachings of Jesus will help me.

I will say, (probably against my better judgment), that is by biblical implication, though not by "word for word".

If you can not understand that, maybe it is God's way of allowing each of his children to come toward him in their own free (willed) way.

[TommyO 5]

Why are you unwilling to take responsibility for your actions, You threatenend me with God but you say it's his wish not yours. God has not threatened me, you have but you take no responsibility. You say it is I who made you act inapropriately, it's not your fault it's mine. You say you do not wish to make yourself feel superior and then talk of coming down to my level, the level of a wind bag full of hot air who's opinion is baselless. I can't imagine how that might be percieved as a superior atittude. Your bad actions are my fault but you are willing to take ownership for anything good you may have done. It is not God I have any issue with, it is your version of God that I disapprove of.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I can understand that even if I disagree! And no, you don't have to share it with me, but since we have an ongoing discussion about it, I thought it fair to ask you to clarify your belief system. If you choose not to, so be it!

You said that "that there is a God and that following the teachings of Jesus will help me" which comes "from your pwersonal faith" and I agree completely! What I was getting at was, how do you know what Jesus actually taught without taking what He said literally. Help me to understand that!!

I know you don't take the Bible literally, but I want to ask you what you think about a verse that actually pertains to the scriptures that say's, (referring to the scriptures) "these thintgs I have written unto you that you may KNOW that ye have eternal life"!

It comes from my personal faith and I don't have to share that with you. I am not on a mission to make people conform to my faith system. Maybe you KNOW, but I only think, that there is a God and that following the teachings of Jesus will help me.

I will say, (probably against my better judgment), that is by biblical implication, though not by "word for word".

If you can not understand that, maybe it is God's way of allowing each of his children to come toward him in their own free (willed) way.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Tommy O,

Please reread my post! I referred to the actions of several people, not specifically YOU! And I referred to not allowing myself to get down to that level of name calling, etc. You were never even mentioned or implied.

I didn't threaten you with God, I told you what the Bible has to say about unbelief. It is the Word of God that is threatening you. I didn't write the book!

I did take ownership of losing my cool, but I havn't heard you do that. Have you! Look back at your posts to me, starting with the very first one, and tell me with all honesty that you did not try to provoke me, needle me and talk down about my faith! Calling me "Rony Boy", asking me if I am angry yet . . . come on Dude!

Be honest now! Have you have ANY interest in serious discussion? If not, why post to me then if not to try to "make me angry" which you already admitted to.

I don't want to continue with all the hostility anymore, and am perfectly willing to end it. Are you??

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Yes, but...:faint:

[Ron Cusano 0]

Tommy O!!

Tommy O,

Please reread my post! I referred to the actions of several people, not specifically YOU! And I referred to not allowing myself to get down to that level of name calling, etc. You were never even mentioned or implied.

I didn't threaten you with God, I told you what the Bible has to say about unbelief. It is the Word of God that is threatening you. I didn't write the book!

I did take ownership of losing my cool, but I havn't heard you do that. Have you! Look back at your posts to me, starting with the very first one, and tell me with all honesty that you did not try to provoke me, needle me and talk down about my faith! Calling me "Rony Boy", asking me if I am angry yet . . . come on Dude!

Be honest now! Have you have ANY interest in serious discussion? If not, why post to me then if not to try to "make me angry" which you already admitted to.

I don't want to continue with all the hostility anymore, and am perfectly willing to end it. Are you??

[gadgetlady 4]

I'm having trouble with this, too, so please help me understand. When Jesus quoted the Old Testament, which he did frequently, he didn't refer to what he quoted as allegorical. He treated it as literal. So this is a question for all of you who call yourselves Christ-followers but don't accept the Bible as literal: do you believe 1) the Old Testament is not literal (I think I know the answer to this but I'm trying to be inclusive), 2) the New Testament is not literal, and 3) the Gospels specifically are not literal (i.e. things did not happen the way they are written).

[TommyO 5]

Okay, here is my last post on this thread only because I think it's time to move on.

Ron in repsonse to your last post to me, please don't pretend that your statement about going down to this level was not directed at me at least in some way. I doubt very much you could win that debate,

As far as me using wise cracks and goading you, I have not denied that tactic ever, I actually think that it is somewhat obvious that I did that. It was done to see how you would react and sorry but you reacted as I expected.

I don't understand why you think you get to decide the rules of engangement. If I don't play by your rules I am a bag of wind full of hot air.

I am not goading you now when I say I don't believe in God, I am simply stating a fact. You want me do believe that there is scientific evidence to prove that there is a God. I feel strongly that that is hooey. I am also unwilling to spend countless hours searching for evidence to prove you wrong or me right for that matter.

From my perspective you began this debate with me when you spoke directly to me and said tell him that when you see him, or something similar to that. The implied message was "God is gonna get you" and there would appear to also be an implied glee from you in that message.

That is why I disaprove of your God, I do not however disapprove of everyones Gods only the ones who are unwilling to see the good in people even though they have faults. Your God seems vain, spitefull and very narrow minded to me.

I will finish with this, some people believe that God created man in his own image, I believe Man creates God in his own image. Tell me about your God and I will tell you about you

[lisah25 3]

Since my beliefs and dialog is based upon the Word of God, those who believe there is no God or who do not believe that the Bible is the literal Word of God will have closed minds and react negatively.

My beliefs are based on the Word of God as well. I've reacted negatively to you, so what do you think my motivation may have been?

[lisah25 3]

As a fellow Christian, let me ask you a serious question? When you hear remarks to the effect the "there is no God", " the Bible is just a bunch of stories", "if there is a God why doesn't He do this or that", and when you try to give a serious answer, you are talked down to, ridiculed for your faith and some openly try to goat you into being angry and provoke arguments . . . HOW DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD REACT?? Please give me an honest answer!

I'm not BJean, but let me make this point.

You are frustrated, well I am too, and I suspect BJean may be for the same reason I am. We watch you, a fellow Christian, turn people away from the God we love. Not by your message, which is much the same as ours, but by how you delivers it. Neither of us have been ridiculed for our faith, and we aren't the only Christians on this thread who have not supported what you are doing. Please consider thinking about that, and why it might be so.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I have considered and already addressed the issue. I admittedly allowed myself to react to deliverate provocation, and allowed my emotions to

come out. It is interesting that you find so much fault with things that I have said, but don't mention anything about those who constantly, continually and delibretely provoked it.

I suspect that perhaps you have not been subjected to much of what I have experienced from the first post. I also suspect that is so because you may not have been as vocal an uncompromising as I was. I make no apology for that.

I invite you to go back to the beginning to get a full grasp of the situtition. I have been an apoligist and expositor for the faith for most of my adult life, and have never experienced what I have here. While you have remained silent, there have be a number of other Believers who were as appalled as I was, and expressed so in support. I fact, one jumped in in support right from the beginning because of the way I was "ganged up on" - her words! There is more then enough blame to go around here.

I'm not BJean, but let me make this point.

You are frustrated, well I am too, and I suspect BJean may be for the same reason I am. We watch you, a fellow Christian, turn people away from the God we love. Not by your message, which is much the same as ours, but by how you delivers it. Neither of us have been ridiculed for our faith, and we aren't the only Christians on this thread who have not supported what you are doing. Please consider thinking about that, and why it might be so.

[Ron Cusano 0]

As I said previously, none of those remarks were addressed at you personally. If you want to take them as such, I am sure you have your reasons.

You openly admit that you only purpose was to goad and provoke me, and then you take issue that I reacted to a personal attack?? I am not even going to address that. It speaks for itself.

No, I never wanted to decide, as you put it, "decide the rules of engangement", just the right to play by the same rules as everyone else here. That is not what happened.

Your lack of belief in God is entirely your business. The implyed message, as you nagain put it was not that "God is gonna get you" , it was me telling you what the Bible has to say on the subject. I'm just the messenger. Ig you have a problem with the message, you need to take it up with the one who sent it.

Okay, here is my last post on this thread only because I think it's time to move on.

Ron in repsonse to your last post to me, please don't pretend that your statement about going down to this level was not directed at me at least in some way. I doubt very much you could win that debate,

As far as me using wise cracks and goading you, I have not denied that tactic ever, I actually think that it is somewhat obvious that I did that. It was done to see how you would react and sorry but you reacted as I expected.

I don't understand why you think you get to decide the rules of engangement. If I don't play by your rules I am a bag of wind full of hot air.

I am not goading you now when I say I don't believe in God, I am simply stating a fact. You want me do believe that there is scientific evidence to prove that there is a God. I feel strongly that that is hooey. I am also unwilling to spend countless hours searching for evidence to prove you wrong or me right for that matter.

From my perspective you began this debate with me when you spoke directly to me and said tell him that when you see him, or something similar to that. The implied message was "God is gonna get you" and there would appear to also be an implied glee from you in that message.

That is why I disaprove of your God, I do not however disapprove of everyones Gods only the ones who are unwilling to see the good in people even though they have faults. Your God seems vain, spitefull and very narrow minded to me.

I will finish with this, some people believe that God created man in his own image, I believe Man creates God in his own image. Tell me about your God and I will tell you about you

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Ron, do us all a favor:

Instead of telling us what God has to say in the Bible, just post a link to a web-site that has the whole Bible on it and let us read it for ourselves.

Oh Heck, here is a site: KJV

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I'm having trouble with this, too, so please help me understand. When Jesus quoted the Old Testament, which he did frequently, he didn't refer to what he quoted as allegorical. He treated it as literal. So this is a question for all of you who call yourselves Christ-followers but don't accept the Bible as literal: do you believe 1) the Old Testament is not literal (I think I know the answer to this but I'm trying to be inclusive), 2) the New Testament is not literal, and 3) the Gospels specifically are not literal (i.e. things did not happen the way they are written).

I explained much of that a few pages back.

Jesus did not write the New Testament. His apostles did not write much or any of it. Much of the New Testament was written by people who were told stories decades after the alleged facts occurred. Sometimes apostles told people who told other people who then wrote it down. Then there was the politics of canonization which is too long to go into.

There was also competition between the apostles to see who could build the bigger following most quickly. Errors were inevitable. That is why Gospels of different apostles differ from each other.

Before you ask the question, I will say that my level of believe for something presented as myth differs drastically than for something presented as science.

If that sounds like double-talk, what do you expect when one has no proof, but only feelings and faith to go by? I may be a better Christian than those that accept the Bible as literal, because anyone who needed to believe the Bible as literal, had to be given proof (that convinced them), while I accepted Jesus on faith and feelings alone.