Anti-Semitism In France!

[lisah25 3]

God did not create us to make wrong choices and to suffer and is not glorified by our sin. That was never said. It is something you are reading into it.

He may not have wanted us to make wrong choices, but He made us knowing we were going to. I'm not sure there is a significant difference there. He could have said "Hey, wait a minute. If I go ahead like this, my beloved creations will sin and suffer. Maybe I'd better rethink this part"

What I mean by my Glory comments is this. You have said that we Glorify God when we choose to turn away from sin and worship him, correct? Let me ask this then, for whose benefit is that Glory?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Maybe I am twisting things, but it seems to me that since God created Adam to be perfect and Eve was created without sin, then God must be a terrible parent.:faint:

Satan was also created by God and had nowhere to learn bad habits from, but from observing God. No one can even use the excuse that Satan tempted him, because "he is him".

The God of the "Old Testament" was mean, vengeful, Jealous and self-centered, and He was not ashamed of these traits. Is it any wonder his children took after Him?

[BJean 16]

It seems to me that the people who may worry about sin the most and who fear hell the most, might be many of the same ones who need to proselytize as often as possible. This is possibly, I believe, because they need to constantly prove to themselves that they are doing God's will by telling the world that they believe that Jesus died for our sins and that by spreading the word of God, they will not only win souls over to Christ, but they will have also discovered an effective way to constantly remind themselves that they are going to Heaven.

That may be good and necessary for some people. I am sure that it willl win some souls over to Christ. And I certainly have no quarrel with those who believe that they need to do that.

Other people however can go about their daily lives being kind to others, working at being a better person by making more Christ-like choices, and have a belief that caring for their fellow humans is what God wants us to do while we are here on earth.

There are scriptures that speak to witnessing to others - in a quiet way, not proud and boastful. I believe that God approves of our taking that approach in this life.

[Sunta 5]

WO! I had no idea what this thread was all about! I feel remiss in not coming on sooner to state my opinion, cause I know how everyone must miss me soooooo much when I'm not around!

Well, all I have to say is: God sure does cause alot of fights, doesn't he?

[Ron Cusano 0]

Of course there is a difference! If you have a child, you know he or she is going to suffer sickness, problems and eventally die, but you still bring the child into the world, don't you? Would you rethink having the child??

Regarding glory, I don't think it's a matter of anyone benefiting from it. Glory, for lack of a better explanation, it making God the object of our worship and praise. When we do that, we receive blessing and God receives His due because of who He is. We don't do it jsut to benefit from the blessing, we do it because God is God and worthery of it.

He may not have wanted us to make wrong choices, but He made us knowing we were going to. I'm not sure there is a significant difference there. He could have said "Hey, wait a minute. If I go ahead like this, my beloved creations will sin and suffer. Maybe I'd better rethink this part"

What I mean by my Glory comments is this. You have said that we Glorify God when we choose to turn away from sin and worship him, correct? Let me ask this then, for whose benefit is that Glory?

[BJean 16]

Sunta: Some people think that it's God's will that we fight and sin and be ugly and then repent of our sins and take Him as our Lord and Savior so that we can shout to the heavens, "Glory Be Unto God in the Highest!"

[lisah25 3]

There are scriptures that speak to witnessing to others - in a quiet way, not proud and boastful. I believe that God approves of our taking that approach in this life.

I had a pastor once who put it really well, but I can't remember exactly what he said now. It was long the lines of walking with our fellow humans, and helping them as much as we can. Offering to share our faith, but no matter how that offer is received, to continue walking with others. And helping.

I've seen such wonderful examples of people who REALLY live that. One family we know came over after DH fell off a ladder putting up Christmas lights, and put them up for us. DH wasn't hurt badly, but he wasn't anxious to try again. We didn't ask them too, they just heard what happened and came over. We've had people help us navigate my FIL's progressing Alzheimers. Years ago help me when my dad died suddenly. And in turn we've been able help other people. That's the best witness, IMHO.

[lisah25 3]

Of course there is a difference! If you have a child, you know he or she is going to suffer sickness, problems and eventally die, but you still bring the child into the world, don't you? Would you rethink having the child??

But when I have a child, I know all that. I have no choice in the creation of that child. God did. That's my point. My creating a child is very different from God creating mankind.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I think what you are saying is that while you have a choice weather or not to bear the child, you don't have a choice regarding that child being perfect or not. That's a fair question.

The only answer that I can give you is what I said before! Creating us not to have the capicity and ability to choose weather to sin or not, does not allow for us to choose righeousness and obedience which is glorifing to God. And to glorify himself was the reason he creaed us in the first place.

But when I have a child, I know all that. I have no choice in the creation of that child. God did. That's my point. My creating a child is very different from God creating mankind.

[ousooner 1]

Ron - I promised myself I would not chime in here. but I am going to against my own judgement. Fisrt of all, I will start by saying I am a Christian, no doubts about my faith and my relationship with God. I believe the Bible at its word. I admit I am not as well versed as you. While I believe in most of what you are saying, the way way you are saying it is terrible. The bible does teach us to spread the word, but I beleive in tact, which you have little or none of. Sorry to be so blunt. The bible also teaches us to love and to not offend or turn people away from God. To be honest, if I were athiest or agnostic, after hearing the way you presented the gospel, I would want no part of it. Period. I also beleive in praying for people's soul and that they will someday come to know God the way we do, but to tell that to a non-believer is insulting to them. You don't always have to tell people your intentions. Again, tact is in order. This thread has become useless and harmfull to your cause. Just my two cents. Sorry for the rant.

[Ron Cusano 0]

God doesn't cause fights! People cause fights!

WO! I had no idea what this thread was all about! I feel remiss in not coming on sooner to state my opinion, cause I know how everyone must miss me soooooo much when I'm not around!

Well, all I have to say is: God sure does cause alot of fights, doesn't he?

[BJean 16]

Nice, Mr. Sooner-man.

[Ron Cusano 0]

I appriciate you input, and I admitted that I could have handled things differently at times. When confronted by attack, I allowed myself to act in kind. I appoliziged for my part in the disagreements, took responsibility for it and said that I would welcome any serious theological discussion. That is exactly what has taken place here all day. People are asking sincere questions, I am answering to the best of my knowledge and ability, and I think God is getting the glory. If nothing else, people are hearing truth according to God's word.

Unless you took the time to read all 10 or so pages of the thread, you probally don't know all that transpired. There is a time to use tact, and there is a time to be forceful and blunt, as was Jesus when speaking to the Pharisee's, or the money changers in the temple. In fact, in both cases, Jesus used language much stronger that I did here, and showed physical aggression as well. Have you considered that?? I also don't believe that there is anything negative with telling people that you pray for them. If anything, if shows concern and caring.

When Jesus preached, he spoke truth, and at times people reacted aggressively and violently to that truth. I think that is partly what happened here, although, as I said, I did allow my emotions to come into play. I know better that that, however, I am still human, growing, learning and making mistakes even after 30+ years serving the Lord. I expect that will continue until I am called home.

Ron - I promised myself I would not chime in here. but I am going to against my own judgement. Fisrt of all, I will start by saying I am a Christian, no doubts about my faith and my relationship with God. I believe the Bible at its word. I admit I am not as well versed as you. While I believe in most of what you are saying, the way way you are saying it is terrible. The bible does teach us to spread the word, but I beleive in tact, which you have little or none of. Sorry to be so blunt. The bible also teaches us to love and to not offend or turn people away from God. To be honest, if I were athiest or agnostic, after hearing the way you presented the gospel, I would want no part of it. Period. I also beleive in praying for people's soul and that they will someday come to know God the way we do, but to tell that to a non-believer is insulting to them. You don't always have to tell people your intentions. Again, tact is in order. This thread has become useless and harmfull to your cause. Just my two cents. Sorry for the rant.

[TommyO 5]

God is God if he's as great and powerfull as you say then he is the resaon, cause, solution...... for everything.

Guns don't kill people people do

God doesn't cause fights people cause fights

Cows don't make methane their stomachs do

If God made man in his own image, the only thing we can honestly say is God is a mess.

TommyO

[gadgetlady 4]

I also discovered this thread late-in-the-game and have read through everything with interest. Ron, I think you have done an excellent job of presenting AND defending the Gospel, and I don't think anything you have said or done has been out of line. I appreciate your thoughtful responses to the questions presented. I, too, have been "gang-raped" on other threads and I know how easy it is to lash out in kind against those who are attacking.

I have a friend who is a "completed Jew" (as she calls herself) and she is such an incredible witness. Your ministry is a difficult one but I'm sure also very rewarding at times. Our pastor spends a lot of time in his sermons putting the Bible into context and showing how the Jewish faith informs what was being said. I believe you can't truly understand the Bible until you have at least some concept of Jewish culture.

Keep up the good work!