Anti-Semitism In France!

[anonemouse 1]

Ron, this is exactly the kind of Christianity that pushes many of us away from it. I am drawn towards Christians who *live* their faith, and accept others for who they are. I only want to push away those who push their beliefs on others.

I feel the same way. No offense, Ron, but while you may just be eager to "help" people experience God's love, you come across as being aggressive and bullying about it. I like to say that people attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, and you are without a doubt vinegar, if you get my drift. If people want to "get to know" God, they will ask others about it. The fact that people are tolerant enough to sit or stand next to you while you repeatedly extoll the virtues of being a Christian does not necessarily mean they are interested in what you have to say. Whenever someone does that to me, I just kind of go into my head and start planning my next grocery trip. The good ol' "smile 'n nod," as I like to call it.

[Ron Cusano 0]

By no means do I "sit or stand next to someone and repeatedly extoll the virtues of being a Christian"!! I find it interesting that just speaking about my beliefs makes people uncomfortable and defensive. I certainly don't "bully" anyone. I am just being who I am. Apparently folks seem to find it harder to accept me as being a Christian, than I do accepting them as non-believers. I often ask people what THEY and WHY they believe that, and rarely tell them what I believe unless they ask or give me reason to think they may want to know. How do you consider that "bullying"??

[green 6]

I guess why I asked about you being an athiest is that most athiests that I have met and spoken with have never explored or investigated the claims of Christianity in depth. Most have a very superficial understand of it. Athiests rule out the possibility of there being a God, while agnostics are open to accept God if He can be proven to them. I was wondering where you fall in that understanding.

Cusano: isn't the point of this thread your desire to alert us to anti-Semitism in France? And yet here you are, dragging your opportunistic evangelical tongue across the floor trying to hoover up or harrass a possible soul or two. Naughty boy!

In fact Cusano's article is correct; anti-semitism is alive and flourishing in France. I saw signs of it when I was living there in the early 1980s and was horrified. At that time there was anti-Semitic graphiti and many of the French people whom I met were comfortable saying horrible things about the Jews. Indeed, the French were comfortably racist.

Since then the situation has, I gather, degenerated. There was a long article in one of the Canadian newspapers some six months ago that dealt with the issue of the increase in immigration to Canada of French Jews. The article focussed on individuals who have chosen to move to French Canada because they no longer feel secure in France.

There was also one particularly horrible story of a young French Jew who had been kidnapped, tortured and killed by a group of Muslim Africans on French soil that hit international news.

On a purely anecdotal level, my French friends have mentioned to me that Jews are having a rough time in France. They know that I am interested in such news because my father's side of the family is Jewish and most of them did perish in the Holocaust.

As for me, I was baptised and all that but I am another one of them atheists, eh. Yipes!

[anonemouse 1]

By no means do I "sit or stand next to someone and repeatedly extoll the virtues of being a Christian"!! I find it interesting that just speaking about my beliefs makes people uncomfortable and defensive. I certainly don't "bully" anyone. I am just being who I am. Apparently folks seem to find it harder to accept me as being a Christian, than I do accepting them as non-believers. I often ask people what THEY and WHY they believe that, and rarely tell them what I believe unless they ask or give me reason to think they may want to know. How do you consider that "bullying"??

Ron, faith or lack of faith can be an extremely personal thing for many people. I know I personally take no issue with people asking me why I believe the way I do, IF I perceive that they truly want to know. The way you and many other people come across is that you are asking people to DEFEND what they believe. No one should have to defend their beliefs. The reason people are rather unaccepting of you is that you are LOUD about your beliefs, and you state them in a way that denigrates people of other beliefs. You are not truly curious about other people's beliefs, you just want to convert them.

Nothing is wrong with sharing your love of God, as long as the person you are sharing with is willing. And unfortunately, speaking from experience, many people who supposedly want to "share" the "love of God" don't realize that the person they are talking to is anything but willing.

You may not mean it, but statements like the onesI have quoted below come across as vaguely hateful. If you haven't noticed, people usually don't react well to being talked to like they are jumping on a bandwagon or the implication that they are uneducated just because they don't believe the same way you do. THAT is why I call your tactics "bullying.":

By asking about your moniker of "token athiest", I was wondering if your really consider yourseld an athiest, and perhaps . . . why??

I have done my homework!! Have you??

[Wheetsin 714]

and rarely tell them what I believe unless they ask or give me reason to think they may want to know.

I didn't ask, nor did I indicate interest in knowing. Yet you told me. And I'm a total stranger.

Apparently folks seem to find it harder to accept me as being a Christian, than I do accepting them as non-believers.

My father is a wise man, and he frequently told me "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." I believe that applies here.

Comments like "Have you?? [done your homework]" are not exactly what I'd call "accepting". After you mentioned being in a ministry, I didn't ask - You're a christian - really? Have you done your homework?? Yet when you see my title, you ask if I "really mean that". I never questioned your faith nor the intelligence behind your faith. You did mine. Yet you're the one here who's accepting?

[Ron Cusano 0]

Somehow the conversation turned to faith and I make no apoligies for sharing what I believe!

[anonemouse 1]

Yet you are all, "Why am I being attacked? I'm such a martyr!!!" (Yes, I am being sarcastic, by the way.)

Somehow the conversation turned to faith

Somehow?! You freaking brought it up! Or don't you remember that your first post was about religion and that you made this statement:

You claim to be the token "Atheist"! Do you really mean that??

Don't blame us for something you started in the first place, damn it! This is what a lot of us are getting at! You (and a lot of people like you) start things and then become offended when it is turned around on you. For your information, I don't give a flying you-know-what if someone is a Christian or not. I couldn't care less, really. But it REALLY works me up when people either denigrate Atheism to my face or imply it in the way they speak. My basic creed is, "You keep your mouth shut and I'll do the same."

[Wheetsin 714]

Somehow the conversation turned to faith and I make no apoligies for sharing what I believe!

"Somehow" = you questioned, rather condescendingly, whether or not I "really meant" that I was an atheist. Why act like you have no idea how it happened?

[Ron Cusano 0]

Yes I did! Whenever I hear someone say they are an athiest I am interested in how and why that have that conviction. When I said "somehow", it was a figure of speech, but I think you already know that. Now, it seems like I am sensing "hostility" from you! Do you feel threatened or offended by me discussing my faith?

[Wheetsin 714]

Whenever I hear someone say they are an athiest I am interested in how and why that have that conviction. When I said "somehow", it was a figure of speech, but I think you already know that. Now, it seems like I am sensing "hostility" from you! Do you feel threatened or offended by me discussing my faith?

No, I did not already know that. Or I wouldn't have questioned your use of it. To me, "somehow" is what you use when you don't know how something happened.

Now, it seems like I am sensing "hostility" from you! Do you feel threatened or offended by me discussing my faith?

Hostility was certainly not my intention, and in review, I don't identify that anything that, to me, would give this impression. But to each their own. Since you're new it would not make sense to assume you're familiar with the personalities of those who post to RnR, but I'm sure most here, even those who most fervently disagree with me, would not use "hostile" to describe me or my interactions.

And as for being threatened/offended by you discussing your faith - nope. Many have discussed their faith before you, and many will after. They come, they go. Not everyone shares their opinion in as condescending of a manner as you, but hey - there have certainly been worse. And not everyone shares their story in response to an alleged question that, in reality, was never asked. So it's perhaps a little confusing at most. I've never been offended by confusion.

Best of luck to you on your band journey.

[anonemouse 1]

Actually, Wheetsin, it might have been me that he was directing the "hostile" remark at. And I admit, I am hostile to him, if only because I perceive either hostility or passive aggressiveness from him.

And Ron, if that remark was directed at me, this is what I have to say to you: I am not threatened or offended by anyone truly interested in discussing their faith with me. I am offended by people who attack my beliefs, whether it is openly or by snide and condescending remarks. You are obviously not interested in discussing faith, you are interested in conversion. Anyone who was truly interested in discussing faith knows that most people are a lot more likely to listen or discuss things if the person doing the asking doesn't put down their beliefs in the process. Like I said before, honey attracts more flies than vinegar.

[leatha_g 4]

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[anonemouse 1]

We aren't attacking him because of what he does or doesn't believe. If you had read the entire thread, you would know that. Don't sit there and tell me that you would sit idly by and let someone denigrate your beliefs. Yet, because we are Atheists, we are supposed to do just that? Hell, no! If someone implied that the only reason you were a Christian was because you haven't , as Ron says, "done your homework," you would be pissed off, too.

Leatha_g, why is asking people to truly respect someone's religion (or lack thereof) considered to be "anti-Christianity" and "public persecution"?

[anonemouse 1]

Excuse me?! Shame on me?! Like I said earlier, if you had actually read it, I don't give a damn whether he believes in Christ, the Devil, or a bright purple alien.

"Luring them in for the kill"? Are you kidding me? No one asked him what his beliefs were. HE was the one who started the entire damn thing by implying that Atheists were somehow "uneducated" and not "doing their homework".

He could be a Muslim, a Jew, or a Satanist for all I care. I never said one word about him not being a "good Christian" or anything to that effect. I know absolutely nothing about his beliefs, other than the fact that he obviously thinks Atheists are uneducated people who jump on the bandwagon of Atheism. Again, I never EVER criticized his love of God. I DID criticize his methods of trying to convert people. If that's "anti-Christian," then go ahead and ban me.

:cool:

ETA: You may think I am a bitch and constantly harping on religion, but I am just sick and tired of people thinking that their religion gives them a right to harass other people about their personal beliefs, whether that harassment is openly given or in the form of subtle jabs. Growing up in the Bible Belt has made me very sensitive to this harassment. I feel that everyone should be allowed to openly believe in whatever they want to, whether it is Allah, God, Buddha, the Hindu gods, or nothing at all. I have seen all too many times where someone makes a not-so-veiled insult about Atheism or Atheists or another religion, and when someone speaks up about it, they are accused of being "anti-Christian." Newsflash: Being a Christian does not give someone the right to call someone names or imply that they are uneducated just because they don't believe in God. And when called on something, you should damn well own up to it.

[Ron Cusano 0]

And to you! I am looking forward to more lively debates and disagreements! :-)