5:2 5:2 and women: Not much data yet, but...

[swizzly 901]

So I've been doing the 5:2 with you all for some time now...fully three months at least. During that time, several things were happening that I was sort of choosing not to notice or not connecting to each other. I have been madly reading all fasting links that FYE and everyone else was posting, and I eventually came across this one...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-intermittent-fasting/#axzz2diloZOGk

Which led to this one...

http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/

And I went...well, wow. My hair started falling out again just a few weeks ago, I've been madly gulping supplements to try and stop that. I've been sleeping badly. I've been on high anxiety (and then drinking as a way to deal with that, so then my calories go up...), etc. I'm perimenopausal, post-hysterectomy with functioning ovaries, so it's hard to say what my period would be up to. But I've definitely felt..different doing 5:2 than I had felt just watching what I ate (and this includes my revised paleo approach, which still seems to work fine for me). And if I'm totally honest, the 5:2 thing is a major trigger for my anorexic self, always in there just waiting to be obsessive about NOT eating, so I've had to watch that anyhow.

So now I'm going to do as the second article suggests and listen to my body for a while. I think I will initially do a sort of "revised" 5:2, in which I'll do low-cal (relative to my normal levels) and see how it goes. Right now I'm thinking 700-800 calorie days twice a week still, but I'm totally open to suggestions from this awesome group of people. I will still skip Breakfast cos I'm anyhow not a morning eater, but I will eat a more substantial lunch and possibly a late-afternoon snack, as that is when I really start to have high anxiety. I don't think it's just that I want to eat emotionally to soothe anxiety (I'm not much of an emotional eater anyhow, more an emotional drinker...oy); rather that the non-eating is causing the anxiety and I just need to have something to feel better.

The data are super thin and not convincing, but somehow that article hit me hard. I felt like...OOooohhh, THAT is what's been going on. So I'm going to experiment with a revised approach, happy to tell you all how it goes. I hope you will let me stick around even though I'm not strictly following 5:2 per se for a while...

Besides all that? I haven't really lost any weight, I'm becoming pretty convinced it might just be cos my body is happy where it's at. And I am fine where it's at as well, I wear a 6 or 8 trousers anyhow -- I just had this weird idea that I wanted to weigh 65kg...but maybe 70-ish is more where I belong? I really don't know...I don't have any answers, just a lot of questions right now.

Welcome anyone's thoughts on this of course! And will keep reading about how you all are doing, as it seems to be working marvelously for most. xox

[feedyoureye 3,087]

I saw those articles too. I do not do Paleo and do not have any of the symptoms mentioned, so I just kind of moved past the articles. Swiz, by all means try a variation on the 5:2.

[swizzly 901]

Thanks, FYE. I appreciate the reply -- I was just wondering if anyone else was having any funky issues or if it were just me. I'm feeling a bit blue-ish about giving up the 5:2 and just about weight in general, which is irrational and I know it. Sigh.

I don't do Paleo really either, I just don't eat grains and I TRY to limit sugar.

Wednesday slump today...

[Globetrotter 1,340]

I refuse, REFUSE, to believe that my body is happy being obese, which I still am. At 5'3", there is no WAY 190 pounds is acceptable, and I feel terrible, awkward and ungainly and FAT.

The Paleo for Women article was thoroughly depressing, it basically told me that any sort of calorie restriction spells doom for my female brain and body. what the EFF.

Has anyone considered whether or not the only people here who are successful at 5:2 are women who are post-menopausal?

[swizzly 901]

I refuse, REFUSE, to believe that my body is happy being obese, which I still am. At 5'3", there is no WAY 190 pounds is acceptable, and I feel terrible, awkward and ungainly and FAT.

The Paleo for Women article was thoroughly depressing, it basically told me that any sort of calorie restriction spells doom for my female brain and body. what the EFF.

Has anyone considered whether or not the only people here who are successful at 5:2 are women who are post-menopausal?

I found the article a bit depressing too, if I'm honest. Though it did help me feel better about the things that were niggling at the back of my brain about what's NOT working.

And yes, I was also wondering about the pre- or peri-menopausal (which my gyn says I'm still officially pre-menopausal, though I'm not convinced about that) women having less success at 5:2, but maybe I'm overgeneralizing that? I'm going to poke around the 5:2 forums a bit to see if anyone's talking about this...

I'm still "overweight" too -- and my doctor wouldn't mind if I lost another 5kg, so I also don't really WANT to stay where I am, it's just that NOTHING has shifted in soooo long, I just wonder. And I marvel once again at coops' incredible willpower and stick-to-it-ive-ness... <3

[swizzly 901]

Also: I feel like my stomach is getting LESS flat over time and more flabby, despite the paleo AND the 5:2 -- both of which are renowned for targeting belly flab. I'm perplexed and a bit miffed LOL. The roll on my midsection, especially just above my waist, is alarmingly roll-y-er.

[M2G 1,836]

Thanks for sharing these articles Dee.

My takeaway from the first article was this quote:

Most of all, though, I’d simply suggest that women interested in fasting be cautious, be self-aware, and only do so if it comes naturally. It shouldn’t be a struggle (for anyone, really). It shouldn’t stop your cycle or make it harder for you to get pregnant. It should improve your life, not make it worse. If you find that fasting has those negative effects, stop doing it. It should happen WHEN (When Hunger Ensues Naturally), if it happens at all.

This makes perfect sense to me because while I enjoy fasting...it gives me back that feeling I had when I was newly sleeved ===> NO HUNGER, and that makes like so much easier for me, when my brain and stomach are not constantly thinking or whining about food. BUT, if this was a chore and something I dreaded and hated and if I wasn't sleeping at night or it was messing with my cycle you better believe I would quit in a NY minute. This way of life is probably NOT for everyone, which is part of why I'm not shouting it from the rooftops. My own long-term opinion is yet to be formed. And I fully believe that if I were to fall off the 5:2 wagon it would remain just as every other diet, the inevitable regain would happen. That fact that my weight does NOT shoot up on feed days tells me that this is sustainable for me in the longer scope of things. For now, I'm quite happy that someone (OD, Georgia...can't remember who started all the chatter?) mentioned that this was something that was FINALLY working. That is how I feel about it. Finally something that is helping me lose the regain (-10 more to go to get to a weight where I was quite happy and then only -8 more to get to my goal...)

And my takeaway from the 2nd article (which was almost too much technical info for my scatterbrain...lol) was this:

We women (people!) should be honest with ourselves about our priorities, and act constantly with our mental and physical health foremost in our minds. All women are different. But the literature is so sparse in this area that we cannot make any real statements or predictions about the effects of fasting, other than that we just don’t know, and that we should continue to emphasize the centrality of awareness, caution, and loving nourishment in moving forward.

This makes me more excited/anxious to get my labs done next week. I'm excited to see what results I have, although truth be told I've always had stellar labs even whilst morbidly obese for a good 17+ years. I think I was just lucky that I had not yet seen high BP, cholesterol, triglycerides, etc. Like for instance my overall cholesterol was 159 (2004) 133 (2009) ==both pre-sleeve== and then the last time I had labs done in 2011 it was 116. So I am interested to see where I'm at today.

[swizzly 901]

Thanks, M2G!!! I hope you won't mind to share your results when you get them? Mine have always been good, but I haven't had any since a few months now.

I'm glad you pointed out the key problem with all this -- which is that there is a dearth of data about women, particularly by age/life stage. I hope they continue to study this by gender and get more and better information out there. For now, I'm just going to do a bit of a modified approach and see if that helps anything.

I REALLY appreciate your thoughts and input. :wub:

[coops 1,790]

This is really interesting for me, as it would appear that all my efforts to lose the final weight are hindered by hormones; my weight stopped in line with the symptoms and diagnosis of being peri - menopausal.

I was told that it won't affect me; that I will continue to lose weight. I was told to eat less and move more; the ole calories in and calories out adage! (both by medical 'experts' and on here!). Neither methods worked. I stalled for over 18mths, never getting lower than 164 and sat comfy at 166 for most of the time.

So the 5:2 has helped me... I have seen 160lb once. I now have a new bounce range of 161 - 164. When I started doing this - same time as Dee - I was up to 168, so yea, I have lost. I stick to it ... my fast days are not hard work or leave me with any physical or mental issues and I like the control it gives me. I use the two fast days to my benefit and in line with any occasions or events that might include food.

However, in this time frame, my monthlies returned with symptoms and over the last several weeks, the hot flashes have returned too- both have been absent for many, many months prior to starting the 5:2.

I don't know if there is a correlation between them. I don't know whether the ole hormones were gonna strike again anyway due to the decreasing hormones in my body! I just don't know.

I will continue with the 5:2 and hope that I slowly keep losing, aiming for my surgeon's goal and praying for my personal goal.

[feedyoureye 3,087]

When I get my labs in 6 weeks I will post too.

[Globetrotter 1,340]

I have enjoyed doing ADR, so I was unhappy to read that ADR and women don't seem to have positive results.

Last night I was thinking about my weight loss bell curve; it took 6 months to lose the 20 pounds between 184-164. It took 4 months to lose the 20 pounds between 204-184. It took 2 months to lose the 20 pounds between 220-200.

Even though I was still 30 pounds overweight, I bottomed out at 164.

Judging by the amount of loss vs time to lose it, I lost best and most swiftly when I was doing 600 cals.

Is that because of the timeline, because I was still in honeymoon and it actually didn't matter how many cals I took in? Or is it that my body only responds to severe calorie restriction? argh!

[swizzly 901]

GT, I really think the massive stress (former and current) have way more to do with slow loss than your actual food intake. There is no reason to go back to post-op eating habits, you will just be super hungry and even more stressed. I think you need to find ways to reduce stress (OMG while under attack?!?) if at all possible...and be very compassionate and gentle with yourself to help with this. I tell you, it's not just talk -- the stress (the adrenals, the cortisol) can really make you gain very easily and certainly stop you losing. Take care of you!! <3