Non believers

[Butterthebean 8,146]

That's pretty much how I identify myself....a non believer. Not an atheist, not an agnostic.....those terms seem like "labels."

I've been meaning to post in this sub forum for a long time, but never got around to it. It needs the dust knocked off of it. I can see why it doesn't get used much. For me, my non belief has absolutely nothing to do with my WLS or my weight loss. It hasn't contributed....it didn't play a role....it damn sure didn't help. It didn't stop me either, any more than my non belief in the tooth fairy. It's just a lack of belief, not a lack of faith BTW. I have faith...just not in religion.

I read an article recently about a group of atheists down in Florida who erected a statue to atheism on public property as a sign of their right to freedom of expression. It was a park bench BTW....which I think shows at least they are practical. But I can't quite get behind the whole act of it. After all, from the outside looking in, erecting the bench is kinda like celebrating their non belief. Making a statement about it. A demonstration if you will. Personally, I don't make statements about my non belief of religion anymore than I make statements about my non belief in Santa Claus....which I put both on the same level. They are the same thing, are they not? Isn't Santa keeping a list of who's naughty and who's nice.....yeah....same thing.

My non belief is just not a factor. Plus...there is no doubt I have a king size problem with authority. I find it hard to accept the rules of it all. The threats and the guilt. The manipulation. The "live this way or else" sense of it all. I don't need it. I can be a moral man and live by my principles without the threat of eternal damnation hanging over my head. Or the promise of the pearly gates...... I don't need to be bribed to do the right thing.

So yeah, I don't have a very high opinion of religion, but I did not start this thread to criticize people who do or debate the merits of atheism. But rather just to dust off the cobwebs of this sub forum and say hey....it's possible to lose weight, get healthy and lead a decent life without the "assistance" of a higher power.

Out of respect for the many believers out there, I posted this in the "atheist" sub forum so you would not have to read it. I'm happy for your response though. However, like I said, to me it's not a debate.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

[gamergirl 4,610]

I am a believer in something else apart from organized religion. I have a hard time verbalizing what it is other than the golden rule,and potentially a larger plan and that the Universe unfolds the way it should, but that's good enough to start with.

At the risk of angering some fundamentalists, I have to say in my case, lack of faith in a conventional God is not a choice. I kinda see it like being gay. Either you are, or you aren't. Either you are able to believe in God in the conventional way, or you can't. I've never succeeded in forcing it.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Well said Gamergirl.

[micheleC 18]

Why are we talking about religion on this web site? Thought we were here to support each other and share info regarding WLS.......

[stacechase 251]

Thanks for the thread, Butter, and very well-said, Gamergirl.

I consider myself an atheist. When I was younger, I was much more anti-organized religion, and as I've aged, I've become much more tolerant. Live and let live, just don't try to push your beliefs on me, and I won't do it to you.

My choice has not played any part in my lifelong struggle with weight nor does it play a choice in my current dedication to a healthier lifestyle. I have made the decision because it's the smart one to make, it's for my health, and I attribute my strength in staying the course to no one other than myself and my own hard work and perseverance.

Butter, like you, I also tend to have adverse reactions to authority. I prefer to live by rules that make the most sense for me, and don't react well to having to operate under the rule system of others. It has made me stubborn, but strong. The hardest thing for me is battling with my own brain—the large part of me that knows I need to become healthy, wants to make major changes, is often silenced by the bossy, stubborn part of my brain that tells me to "eat whatever you want and feel happy." I'm just now realizing that food does not equal happiness...and that's a conclusion that I am proud to say came from my own noggin...no credit to a "higher power" needed.

[stacechase 251]

Why are we talking about religion on this web site? Thought we were here to support each other and share info regarding WLS.......

This is an agnostic/atheist sub-forum, and there are also other religious sub-forums on this site. Faith and/or personal belief systems play a large role in the weight loss process for many people, and that's why these boards are here. So people can discuss their thoughts/feelings with others and how they influence their weight loss experiences.

[TapSnap 357]

Butter,

Not sure what one you read about but there have been a few of them. There is one in a war vet cemetery that was made for the non religious that died in the trenches of war. There was also another one placed on government ground at a courthouse. A religious group put up a monument on the property then protested when the courts allowed the non-religious group to do the same. In the end the non-religious group was allowed to put there monument up as well. It has been defaced 3 times that I know of. But the religious one has never been touched.

Why can one group of people demand so much and get so much but react over another group of people getting the same thing. It is sad really and is one of the reasons I don't like organized religion.

I have been called names and my car keyed over my evolution sticker on my car. Religious people are wonderful. lol.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Butter' date='

Not sure what one you read about but there have been a few of them. There is one in a war vet cemetery that was made for the non religious that died in the trenches of war. There was also another one placed on government ground at a courthouse. A religious group put up a monument on the property then protested when the courts allowed the non-religious group to do the same. In the end the non-religious group was allowed to put there monument up as well. It has been defaced 3 times that I know of. But the religious one has never been touched.

Why can one group of people demand so much and get so much but react over another group of people getting the same thing. It is sad really and is one of the reasons I don't like organized religion.

I have been called names and my car keyed over my evolution sticker on my car. Religious people are wonderful. lol.[/quote']

Yep...it was the one at the courthouse. The religious group was challenging the "separation of church and state" by trying to have the court house grounds labeled as public property...which they did. So the atheists responded in like fashion by erecting their own "monument." It's sad that so much court time and tax dollars had to be wasted over the whole thing....and that believers and non believers alike feel the need to attack one another....or a monument for Pete's sake. It's all about making statements I think.

In my mind...separation of church and state should mean if a christian politician starts a war because god told him to, only his fellow believers ought to have to go die in it.

[AmyInOrlando 348]

I try never to discuss religion or politics.... But I remember my Dad said once, "The worst part of being an Athiest is..... NO HOLIDAYS !!!!!

[TapSnap 357]

Yep...it was the one at the courthouse. The religious group was challenging the "separation of church and state" by trying to have the court house grounds labeled as public property...which they did. So the atheists responded in like fashion by erecting their own "monument." It's sad that so much court time and tax dollars had to be wasted over the whole thing....and that believers and non believers alike feel the need to attack one another....or a monument for Pete's sake. It's all about making statements I think.

In my mind...separation of church and state should mean if a christian politician starts a war because god told him to, only his fellow believers ought to have to go die in it.

This story was posted in a atheist group on Facebook with mixed results. Some say it was a good thing and like the idea. Others said that why do we need a monument and act like a religion which we are not. I agree with both sides. We are not a religion and should act like one. We are just like minded people that don't believe that a higher power created us. On the other side I guess some people have to support what we stand for because if we don't we will always be outcasts. Thats how I feel every time I am questioned about it and I have to explain myself.

[TapSnap 357]

I try never to discuss religion or politics.... But I remember my Dad said once, "The worst part of being an Athiest is..... NO HOLIDAYS !!!!!

Christmas was a pagan holiday before christians took it over

Thanksgiving, 4th of july, memorial day, and halloween are not religious holidays

So I don't see your dads point of view on this.

[gamergirl 4,610]

I try never to discuss religion or politics.... But I remember my Dad said once' date=' "The worst part of being an Athiest is..... NO HOLIDAYS !!!!![/quote']

That was funny

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Christmas was a pagan holiday before christians took it over

Thanksgiving' date=' 4th of july, memorial day, and halloween are not religious holidays

So I don't see your dads point of view on this.[/quote']

I believe it was tongue in cheek.

On the other hand my wife is a believer, preacher's daughter in fact, and she still believes Xmas ought not be a holiday but rather give a floating holiday so people can use it when they want to.

[TwinsMama 483]

Butter, I appreciate your post. I am almost as liberal as they come but also a believer though in no way shape or form fundamentalist. I think religion is one of those things that people on both sides (believers and non) get very wrong at times. Both sides in many instances feel the other is trying to convert/convince them one way or another. Let's all agree to stop that!

My goal is to NOT walk around trying to convert people. Faith is a (in my view) very serious matter and I don't believe God wants me to try and "bring everyone to the light". In fact, through reading the Bible I think most people who take this approach are not only WRONG but doing the exact opposite of what God would want.

Not every person that is a believer is going to beat you over the head, try to convert you, or believes that acceptance of science means your going to hell. I'm one of those that absolutely has read the Bible cover to cover and I read it because of my doubts - so very skeptical. By reading it, it brought me to what I feel is a closer relationship with God. That is, my OWN personal relationship with God.

No one walking this earth can save another, so again...let's try and stop that! Just as no nonbeliever can convince someone not willing to stop believing. It's just not going to happen.

It is a very sad state of affairs when people of all faiths (or no faith) cannot sign onto a support forum and just Celebrate with one another. I've been really saddened by the tone lately in some of the forums and also the intolerance on both sides.

Sure, I attribute much of my success and overall peace to God, but again, that's about me and has nothing to do with anyone else. And BTW, I've also read the Torrah and Koran. I'm an avid studier of world cultures, religion, etc. I've met some great friends of all walks of life this way and wouldn't trade those friendships for the world. We respect and value each other and that's what counts.

[southernsoul 773]

I also appreciate getting this sub-forum dusted off. Although I was raised in the Christian faith, as an adult I don't connect with any organized religion. I wish more of today's politicians believed as passionately in the separation of church and state as our founding fathers did. As stacechase said above, live & let live, just don't push your beliefs on others. For me, success in this journey is more about having faith in myself and my own ability to make the necessary changes than faith in some god or outside being.