Mediocrity and Teenagers

[Bullwinkle 1]

I'm wondering if those of you who are in touch with teenagers outside the classroom have heard them mention that they want to be mediocre. Is this some sort of pessimistic new fad?

In answer to your original question, no, I don't believe it's a "new fad".

Every generation -- of every era -- believes that the kids of their current generation have gone to Hell.

I was privileged to have my grandmother living with us when my siblings and I were growing up. Grandma made derogatory comments about Mom -- how she was "out of control" when she was a teenager (in 1953), and now "you're out of control!" (when I was a teenager in 1975). Mom and Dad said plenty to us, too, when we were teenagers, but they say more about their teenaged grandchildren. In fact, we all heard the same crap outta my parents when our children became teenagers -- much worse griping and complaining than when Grandma was gritching about us.

And -- HORRORS -- guess what? I find myself saying some of the SAME DAMN THINGS about the kids of this generation, and it bothers me that I'm doing that.

So, I don't think it's so much a TEENAGER thing, as I think it's an ADULT thing.

And this post is made by a woman who has raised nine (9) children, so I think I know what I'm talkin' about when it comes to teenagers. Teenagers can be extrenely exasperating. I ought to know. I used to be one.

PS: The key in rearing teenagers is, DON'T CUT 'EM ANY SLACK and don't let 'em see you laughing behind their back when they think they are in trouble. Let 'em sweat it out.

[Kat817 19]

As I read through these posts 2 things jumped out at me...and both have been pointed out by Wheetsin!!! It made me feel that this kid mainly did not want to participate, and did not want to be pulled out in front of the class, for not participating in the pep rally. MANY personalities would not like that. My Dad is without doubt one of the smartest people I know, and he would have been there saying it loud and clear....his brother on the other hand, equally smart--would have been the smart ass saying mediocrity was fine by him. He would likely say the same thing if cornered about it now. He is literally a brain surgeon, he is a neurosurgeon, so obviously even with the attitude, he is NOT really ok with it, but his whole personality is like that. He does not tell funny jokes, they are always puns, or deal with very dry humor. He chose not to have children, but has paid for each and every one of his nieces and nephews to go to college if needed and wanted, as well as numerous others....mostly Mississippi Bulldog jocks to be honest!! He does not read anything light hearted, he reads constantly, but always serious subject matter, and always non fiction. If he were a teenager today, he very well may be Goth!!! But underneath the seriousness, he is great fun, and giving, BUT you have to give him the chance to see it!

Also Laurend brought up the subject of the differences in HS and college. There are huge differences, the school system is dealing with so many different learning disabilities, and guidelines, that have been either dealt with or are non existent in a college setting. The law requires that even a bed ridden child with mental retardation be allowed a public education---and now most schools have total inclusion in the classroom. So you have teachers who have students there who want to learn and have a right to be challenged, but you also have students who want to learn and even with classed dumbed down, already find it a challenge...and then you have the other side of the coin, those who do not want to be there at all, and will do all in their power to make everyone else as miserable as they are. Not to mention the inclusions into the classroom. Now one teacher, one school, one school board, has to try to make a curriculum to satisfy the needs of all---good luck! By the time they move on to college, you can weed out a few of the issues, the inclusions referenced earlier are not there, and the ones that are, were not the problem. The students who didn't want to be in HS, are not bothering with college---so of course the ability to challenge is easier!

I do think parenting has a lot to do with it, as far as what is accepted at home, but even home life is a challenge sometimes, and it is going to take those kids awhile longer to get to a point of wanting more for themselves. The woman who lives next door to my best friend has 4 teenagers. 2 of hers, and 2 of her late husbands---she struggles, she works 60+ hours a week....and those kids are all different as night and day! They will grow up being different--not necessarily one better than the other, just different. Mom cannot be at every event, maybe not even at every conference. I went to my kids, Dad was working---and like it or not, that cannot be helped.

I hate that the kid may truly feel that way. But, if he does, then he is not likely to be disappointed. We cannot all be CEO's some of us have to be the peons!

All that being said----BOH, the fact that this was eating at you and made you start this thread---is tarnishing your reputation as being a BOH!!!! Keep up the good work!

Kat

[skyeblu79 0]

I never had a college-level instructor who CARED if I passed or failed. That was the biggest difference between high school and college (for me). Well, that and the dress code.

I didn't get the whole care then in college or high school much. I think there are some teachers in both that truly care and some that really don't. I purposefully went/go to a smaller college and I think that makes a big difference.

This was from the syllabus I got today. Even in college they should make special considerations.....

Disabilities

A student with any disability (physical, learning, etc.) requiring special considerations should notify the instructor as soon as possible. Appropriate accomodations will be developed in consideration with the Counseling Center.

[anonemouse 1]

I am as liberal as someone can be, but I think education is definitely where we have gone too far with political correctness. It has gotten to where we are holding people back for the fear of holding people back. I think that by high school, the students should be divided up into groups of similar learning strategies and intelligences and then asked to excel within that group. In other words, people with vastly different learning strategies and IQs shouldn't be asked to reach the same educational goals. In the current system, you get people that honestly aren't that smart in the same classes with people that are far ahead of them and then the curricula is tailored to the less-intelligent.

[skyeblu79 0]

I am as liberal as someone can be, but I think education is definitely where we have gone too far with political correctness. It has gotten to where we are holding people back for the fear of holding people back. I think that by high school, the students should be divided up into groups of similar learning strategies and intelligences and then asked to excel within that group. In other words, people with vastly different learning strategies and IQs shouldn't be asked to reach the same educational goals. In the current system, you get people that honestly aren't that smart in the same classes with people that are far ahead of them and then the curricula is tailored to the less-intelligent.

That is done here in NC....Yes, we have inclusion, but we also have classes that are specific to certain learning abilities/levels more so that strategies. I think school systems don't really know what the answer is....When I taught high school my classes had inclusion...I had no one to have me out w/the inclusion kids, where as in my high school those classes usually had an assistant. The inclusion kids would go see these "people" I can't remember what they were called during their elective period. The would then help them w/the work.

I think it would be too difficult to divide the students completely off learning styles. As teachers we should try to incorporate them all in some way.

It sounds like you are referring to tracking. I think tracking sucks, but a lot of states have been doing it for years...Tracking didn't start here in NC until sometime after I graduated in 97.

[Wheetsin 714]

Exactly, and I think it is like that in most of the real world. You don't get to say, "Wait, I'm just slower than everyone else!" You either keep up or you don't.

Compltely depends on your program and I'd say - more importantly - size of your program. I'm working on my second Master's degree. During the first one, it was what I would call "cut throat". It was also a popular program with strict admission guidelines and people figuratively fighting for a place in the program.

The second, that I'm in now, was a bit of culture shock for me. I'm amazed at the level of foolishness present in the students, their work, etc. We share papers for peer reviews and I am really dismayed by the caliber and quality of some of the work I'm given to review. And the professors do a lot to help these students stay with the rest of the class. I can't adequately put my dismay into words. It is a good program, and has a top notch curriculum, but its downfall is the fact that it's a small program struggling to grow. I think that leads them to accept students that wouldn't otherwise be accepted, and go the extra mile for struggling students... because if they lose that tuition, there isn't necessarily someone else waiting to fill their spot. There are people who, every semester, I'm sure they're going to fail... yet there they are right along next to me when the next semester starts up. It never ceases to amaze me. And it makes the state of competition (to stay alive) very evident and sad.

When I taught college, I taught 099 and it was my responsibility to get people to the point of being able to survive a 100 level class. This was back at a busier school with more competitive entry requirements. If they failed my class twice, they pretty much didn't have any option to continue, short of taking the credits somewhere else and hoping they transferred.

[anonemouse 1]

I am talking about away from an educational environment, though, although I guess you could still say if depends on the situation. Take a factory for example: If you worked on a line there and couldn't keep up, they wouldn't keep you around for very long. You would probably be fired. Smaller companies might be more lenient, but I think that as a whole, once you get a job you can't tell your boss that you are going to be working on your schedule instead of his. They will expect you to meet their deadlines and keep up with the other employees.

[skyeblu79 0]

Compltely depends on your program and I'd say - more importantly - size of your program. I'm working on my second Master's degree. During the first one, it was what I would call "cut throat". It was also a popular program with strict admission guidelines and people figuratively fighting for a place in the program.

The second, that I'm in now, was a bit of culture shock for me. I'm amazed at the level of foolishness present in the students, their work, etc. We share papers for peer reviews and I am really dismayed by the caliber and quality of some of the work I'm given to review. And the professors do a lot to help these students stay with the rest of the class. I can't adequately put my dismay into words. It is a good program, and has a top notch curriculum, but its downfall is the fact that it's a small program struggling to grow. I think that leads them to accept students that wouldn't otherwise be accepted, and go the extra mile for struggling students... because if they lose that tuition, there isn't necessarily someone else waiting to fill their spot. There are people who, every semester, I'm sure they're going to fail... yet there they are right along next to me when the next semester starts up. It never ceases to amaze me. And it makes the state of competition (to stay alive) very evident and sad.

When I taught college, I taught 099 and it was my responsibility to get people to the point of being able to survive a 100 level class. This was back at a busier school with more competitive entry requirements. If they failed my class twice, they pretty much didn't have any option to continue, short of taking the credits somewhere else and hoping they transferred.

By the time you are getting your Masters I don't even see how that stuff can be tolerated. Undergrad weeded a lot of people out. If you have a legimate disability, I don't see anything wrong w/extra help. It sounds unfair to the other students to help these students like this.

The high school I did my student teaching @ basically did the same thing. They wanted me to give my honors students the same tests as the regular students. The kids couldn't do essays in 11th grade b/c it would be too challenging. This school had already had a team to come in and assist them. They would do whatever they could to make that school look better than it was....

[bitteroldhag 0]

The reason I do the pep rally is to let the kids know I do care if they pass or fail. It's just to get them razzed up a little. This kid is "cool" and I really hate cool kids. But I will almost guarantee you that if I work on this kid, he'll decide that mediocrity may not be the way to go. If I don't work on him, he'll fail. Really, it is his choice to fail. I didn't do the pep rally in my 2nd comp class and that went better. So maybe I'll give that up. But I want you to know that there are college professors who do care if the kids do well. But we realize that not everyone belongs in college and that we can't save them all. I have found that kids who just hate me at the beginning of the semester become my biggest fans by the end of the semester. That's because I force them to have a "can do" attitude. I don't tolerate the old "I can't do it" attitude. Also I probably failed to tell you that the pep rally is a bit of a joke because I tell the kids that I want them to be big successes and make a lot of money so they can send me a monthly check after I retire. But I also tell them that when they are successful, I'm successful, so I have stake in this too. But maybe I should rethink this method and just go for the really deep thought which I stun them with on the 2nd day. I discuss quantum physics and string theory with them. We try to define nothing. Then we think of how we would explain colors to a person who is blind from birth. That usually gets the old gray cells working. I'll keep you posted. By the way I teach English, but I'm very big on critical thinking and reading because a kid who cannot or refuses to think cannot write. So there.

[bitteroldhag 0]

I didn't get the whole care then in college or high school much. I think there are some teachers in both that truly care and some that really don't. I purposefully went/go to a smaller college and I think that makes a big difference.

This was from the syllabus I got today. Even in college they should make special considerations.....

Disabilities

A student with any disability (physical, learning, etc.) requiring special considerations should notify the instructor as soon as possible. Appropriate accomodations will be developed in consideration with the Counseling Center.

Every syllabus has to have a disability statement on it. Ours is totally ungrammatical and yours is better. Under the Disabilities Act, we must include this and give students with disabilities the extra care they need. I have had deaf students, blind students, paraplegic students, and many students with learning disabilities. Unfortunately I have disabilities myself and all the care that has been given to me is a disabled parking sticker after I had a double by-pass. Are you aware that obesity is a disability? I wonder why my heart murmur doesn't seem to count as a disability. But I go out of my way to take care of disabled students. I had an older man who didn't fit into those stupid desks they bought. So I asked for a table and chair. I went through channels and nothing happened so I emailed the VP in charge of this and told her I was sad that NSU couldn't provide decent desks for older folks. I had a table and chair in that classroom that day. It helps when the big shots like you.

[bitteroldhag 0]

By the time you are getting your Masters I don't even see how that stuff can be tolerated. Undergrad weeded a lot of people out. If you have a legimate disability, I don't see anything wrong w/extra help. It sounds unfair to the other students to help these students like this.

The high school I did my student teaching @ basically did the same thing. They wanted me to give my honors students the same tests as the regular students. The kids couldn't do essays in 11th grade b/c it would be too challenging. This school had already had a team to come in and assist them. They would do whatever they could to make that school look better than it was....

Research has shown that students who succeed at developmental (read remedial) classes actually have a higher graduation rate than other students. Really good developmental teachers are rare, but I've been teaching it for 23 years off and on. I taught it last semester and I have two of my better students in my Comp. I classes now. A former developmental student, Phil, is taking it for the 2nd time because he thought the work was too hard last time. I hope to get him through Comp. I if he will come to class and try. He's a good kid. Meanwhile I think Grant and Camden will succeed well. They beat me in an argument in developmental English! I went to college for 11 years and these tyros beat me! I was thrilled. I've had my developmental students make A's in my regular comp. I classes. I'm so proud of them. I am one of the two full professors who teach Comp. I at our school. We love it, but everyone else is just too superior to teach it. Buy I love messing around with freshmen's minds. It's just too fun to give up.

[bitteroldhag 0]

I am talking about away from an educational environment, though, although I guess you could still say if depends on the situation. Take a factory for example: If you worked on a line there and couldn't keep up, they wouldn't keep you around for very long. You would probably be fired. Smaller companies might be more lenient, but I think that as a whole, once you get a job you can't tell your boss that you are going to be working on your schedule instead of his. They will expect you to meet their deadlines and keep up with the other employees.

I read something some time ago where a business guy was talking to a bunch of teachers. During the question period, a teacher asked him if he used the best materials and best workers in his business. He said he did. The teacher pointed out that we get all materials and all workers, not just the best. And we're supposed to make inferior materials better. Business people don't know sh*t about teaching. But everyone thinks they know how to teach because they went to school. Teaching takes special people who really care how the students do. Alas, they are few and far between, but you seem to care. Keep doing that. The students will disappoint you often, but on occasion, they will make you feel wonderful. They will understand. That is what makes teaching with the lousy salary and all the crap worthwhile.

Today one of our master teachers said she thought she'd made a difference in about 6 students lives after teaching for 35 years at the high school and college level. I thought I'd made a difference in maybe 20 students's lives in 23 years of teaching. But I think we may have made a difference in many more lives and just don't know it. That's one of the lousy things about teaching. You never know if you made a difference unless someone writes later and tells you that you did. Very few students ever do that, and yet I can remember teachers I had who did make a difference in my life and I thank them for it. Maybe we should all do that. So thanks to Miss Baker, my first and second grade teacher; thanks to my professors in grad school, especially Norman Grabo, Joe Kestner, Prof. Steinberg and all the others; thanks to Millie Richardson in high school and to Mr. DeBarr, the hardest chemistry teacher in the world. He died of cancer shortly after I had him in class, but I scored higher in chemistry on the SAT than in English. Thanks to Miss Creel, Mrs. Porter, Miss Turman and all the high school teachers I had. Maybe we should thank these folks because we wouldn't be where we are without them.

[Bullwinkle 1]

…I really hate cool kids…

…if I work on this kid, he'll decide that mediocrity may not be the way to go. If I don't work on him, he'll fail. Really, it is his choice to fail.

…I force them to have a "can do" attitude…

I have a problem with the tenor of these statements. They smack of control, rather than teaching.

It sounds as if you've already given the kid -- or any "cool" kid, since you hate them -- an F in your course on the first day. And, depending upon their rate of capitulation to your terms, they can raise their grade by the end of the term.

Wow. I pity the free thinkers in your class, since free thinkers really don't like to be "worked on" or "forced" to do anything.

[skyeblu79 0]

The reason I do the pep rally is to let the kids know I do care if they pass or fail. It's just to get them razzed up a little. This kid is "cool" and I really hate cool kids. But I will almost guarantee you that if I work on this kid, he'll decide that mediocrity may not be the way to go. If I don't work on him, he'll fail. Really, it is his choice to fail. I didn't do the pep rally in my 2nd comp class and that went better. So maybe I'll give that up. But I want you to know that there are college professors who do care if the kids do well. But we realize that not everyone belongs in college and that we can't save them all. I have found that kids who just hate me at the beginning of the semester become my biggest fans by the end of the semester. That's because I force them to have a "can do" attitude. I don't tolerate the old "I can't do it" attitude. Also I probably failed to tell you that the pep rally is a bit of a joke because I tell the kids that I want them to be big successes and make a lot of money so they can send me a monthly check after I retire. But I also tell them that when they are successful, I'm successful, so I have stake in this too. But maybe I should rethink this method and just go for the really deep thought which I stun them with on the 2nd day. I discuss quantum physics and string theory with them. We try to define nothing. Then we think of how we would explain colors to a person who is blind from birth. That usually gets the old gray cells working. I'll keep you posted. By the way I teach English, but I'm very big on critical thinking and reading because a kid who cannot or refuses to think cannot write. So there.

You really don't sound lke a bad teacher. I think the students really can tell what professors care. Do you think higher level English (majors only) or lower level English? I think that makes a difference too.

I loved English in high school & completed hated my English Comp professor. She was mean!!! I was still figuring out the whole college thing and it's different being in freshman comp, than being in the major and truly wanting to take English classes. In h.s. I was told I was a great writer, in college I felt like I had to learn to write again. Sometimes I think professors stereotype you from day 1. You write 1 bad paper and they don't think you can cut it. Once you get in your major, I think it's a little different...

I completely agree. Everyone doesn't belong in college..So, many people that start college with you are gone by Freshman or Junior year. Or they are still there 8 years later.

[Wheetsin 714]

Exactly, and I think it is like that in most of the real world. You don't get to say, "Wait, I'm just slower than everyone else!" You either keep up or you don't.

Then, IMHO, still depends. I work behind the scenes in corporate training. I also consult & contract with other business and schools to redesign their training and performance cirricula. So it's my job to figure out what people need to know, the best way to teach it to them, and create the materials to do that. And to make sure that the curricula maintain instructional integrity end to end. (And I could go on, because there's a huge world of tasks & responsibilities that are included). The trend in current & large organizations is to educate at an individual level, and lots of companies are willing to pay to make sure that happens. So yeah - some people are getting more time for training than others, and some people are getting more simplified materials than others. Obviously it's not a wide-spread practice or I would have no consulting jobs. And it's a relatively new way of doing things if you consider that the larger system has been in place since WWII, and it's only in the last 10 years or so that this approach has grown in favor. It used to be more rigid - much more "one size fits all", but that's quickly falling out of favor (for the companies that can afford to do something else, anyway).

Also as a nod to the PC impact, I'm fairly confident that in most sizeable organizations if you have - say - a black, disabled, female trainee over the age of 40 who isn't getting it, exceptions will be made. Companies are afraid not to.