Why maintenance is so hard...

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

How do they test this? I am curious... not sure i will ever do it since i don't count calories it probably isn't useful for me... just curious!

I love this vets forum!

Maintenance is very tricky. We prefer to not say we're dieting the rest of our lives. We say we're choosing to eat healthy (most of the time, lol)

It's been great since I had my resting metobolic test done. Now I know exactly how many calories to eat.

It's so easy to gain and harder to lose, the older we get, and the sleeve isn't going to change that.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

How do they test this? I am curious... not sure i will ever do it since i don't count calories it probably isn't useful for me... just curious!

Resting metabolic test. They put a face piece on you and you just sit there and breath for 10-15 minutes. It measures the amount of oxygen you use. When it's over the computer spits out your resting metabolic rate, the calories you need per day just to survive and maintain your weight.

[clk 3,519]

Yes, and it's good info to know. Mine was much lower than the average - basically, it doesn't factor in your exercise (which is why it's the resting test) but it gives you a baseline. I was told (I think - this was more than five years ago) that the average for women was somewhere around 1,400-1,500. I came up much lower than that, enough that it surprised them (as an obese woman they fully expected it to be higher than for a normal weight woman) and this, coupled with the visit to the nutritionist where they told me a 1,200 calorie diet was too many calories, but to eat those calories to avoid "starvation mode" and exercise 600 calories off per day to lose roughly two pounds a week is what finally pushed me to think about a more drastic option.

I opted for surgery and started my research immediately. There was no way that I was going to be able to maintain that long term, I'd already tried over and over again.

In any case, I've found that I can eat far more now that I'm thinner...which makes perfect sense, actually, because I'm far more active than I was as a morbidly obese slug. Now I can easily eat between 1,400-1,600 a day, all the way up to 2,000 a day if it's not a regular thing and I can do it without experiencing a gain on the scale. So as far as that part goes, maintenance was pretty easy for me. I just had to weigh every day and maybe watch my intake one day a week to be sure I wouldn't hit the high end of my maintenance window.

It's the emotional aspect that's really challenging, in my opinion. food was not just sustenance to me. The thing you need to consume every day for survival should not also be your (second) best friend, emotional crutch, stress relief and preferred coping mechanism. For me it was. So being thin, being in maintenance doesn't change that. I still have to be me and I still have to be careful about my relationship with food. Food and I? Sometimes we got issues...

~Cheri

[Georgia 2,908]

Resting metabolic test. They put a face piece on you and you just sit there and breath for 10-15 minutes. It measures the amount of oxygen you use. When it's over the computer spits out your resting metabolic rate' date=' the calories you need per day just to survive and maintain your weight.[/quote']

Who can do it?

[Ms skinniness 3,003]

This is hard but in reality, I will have to not lose my focus on this. I need to focus on Proteins and eating small portions. I noticed today after fasting yesterday I have more restriction. I really need to focus on eating proteins and veggies. I can eat a ton of candy without any struggles. This is life and I will need to focus on healthy eating habits. I am an abnormally and the rules for me are different than others without wls.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

This is hard but in reality' date=' I will have to not lose my focus on this. I need to focus on Proteins and eating small portions. I noticed today after fasting yesterday I have more restriction. I really need to focus on eating Proteins and veggies. I can eat a ton of candy without any struggles. This is life and I will need to focus on healthy eating habits. I am an abnormally and the rules for me are different than others without wls. [/quote']

Yeah....the sleeve kinda has a built in anti candy component....allowing anything sweet to just bypass the whole restriction. And without dumping, which apparently I didn't pay extra for so I didn't get....the candy still goes down quite easy.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Who can do it?

Just google resting metabolic test plus your city. Some bariatric centers do it. Some high tech fitness and training centers as well. I think I paid $120 to have that plus my VO2 max test. The VO2 max is basically the same test, but you're running hard on a treadmill or in some cases, a stationary bike. That test will tell you exactly how many calories you burn per hour while working out at a given heart rate. Problem is, they have to push you to your max heart rate. It's 5 minutes of hell.

[Oregondaisy 2,021]

I've had it done twice. They do it where I had my band surgery.

I wanted to have it done again before starting 5:2

[Georgia 2,908]

Think I'm going to have it done. I'm guessing around 1300-1400. I know if I eat more I gain.

And I'm with BTB, candy is just another easy slider for me. Early in chocolate made me kinda sick but of course, that went away.

[Nicolanz 1,484]

Eeeek! Maintenance. Part two of the battle. I'm not there yet but it makes me nervous the closer I get.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

The million dollar question about is when does maintenance feel normal?

I've been maintaining for about 6 months now and have a pretty good groove going on with regards to eating, fitness and health. food is not the enemy and I eat enough good fats, carbs and Proteins to meet fueling requirements based on a few 100 calories below my TDEE.

However, does it get harder during year 2,3,4,5, n?

Ever since the vet forum has been created, there has been fairly decent discussion and exposure to the challenges of vets about out as far as 4 years. I think I saw even an 8 year vet pop in once, but was really struggling and described their current status as failure. Disheartening to read that.

Is maintaining going to turn into a series of do or die moments? I hope not. I just want to live the remainder of life with a good relation with food. To be able to eat, be satisfied and not have to struggle with food every day and be in good health would be perfect.

However, my observation based on posts from vets 2-4 years post op indicate dealing with food as the enemy is a life long battle. I have not hit a point yet where I feel like there is a need to do battle with food. I do not have the temptation in me to go eat that cookie, cake, brownie, ice cream, what ever. Will the urges come back next year? I hope not. I have a good groove going by not eating junk.

Sure I get hungry, but then that just means to eat some healthy and Protein based that will give me energy for 2-3 more hours. I hope it never gets to that point where long dormant carb monster starts making decisions for me. Logically, I would rather just make sound decisions to support the energy requirements I need for a workout or for the rest of the day rather then eating a sweet. Little does it benefit to go scarf food that is going to give a sugar rush ( probably a headache too), especially since we all know quite precisely how weight starts creeping up.

Your thoughts?

[MichiganChic 3,262]

Great topic, Butter. I'm not at maintenance, but I am beginning to understand why it will be so hard. I used to think Yeah, it's hard because you have to control your eating, but it's bound to be better because you are thin while doing it, so that would be motivating. Now that I've lost a substantial amount of weight and experiencing a pretty long stall (or major slow down in rate of loss), it's dawning on me. When I don't see a pretty frequent drop in the scale, I am losing sight of my ongoing "reward" for hard work. I'm still doing what I need to do, but when you see a steady loss on the scale, that's the motivation that gets me through, even if it's subconscious. As for dieting, if this isn't a diet, nothing is. By definition, diet is restricting what you eat for weight loss. At 8 months out, I could eat whatever I wanted (still in limited quantities, but enough to do damage), but I'm choosing not to. I hope I can continue to make that choice forever, and I plan to, but I know for ME, it's never going to change. I'm not expecting to get to a place where I don't have the constant battle. I envy people who can "listen to their bodies" but I have to track every calorie, every day. I've noticed that if I even let one meal go and track afterwards, I can consume 500 calories in one setting. It's not really the quantity because that's fairly easy to limit, it's the food choices. I'd be able to do that and more 3 or 4 times a day if I let myself....and we all know how that ends. I've found I need to eat around 900 calories a day or less to lose, so imagine if I routinely ate 2000 calories a day.

[lsereno 2,525]

At 16 months into maintenance. it still worries me. In the back of my mind, I think, if I can stay 5 years at goal, I will feel like I can make it the rest of my life. Why 5 years? Many people experience regain between years 3 and 6. At 5 years at goal, I will be almost 6 years out. And even cancer patients are considered good if they go 5 years with a relapse.

I'm not like you. I miss sweets and other foods still. I feel like crap if I eat much of them, but I miss them anyway. And I do not want to forbid them, just limit them to a reasonable amount that allows me an occasional treat while at goal.

Lynda

[clk 3,519]

I'm three years out.

So, I walk a line here. And for now, that line is pretty easy. But it's not the simple, mindless thing I thought it would be. Does that make sense?

I think the challenges in maintenance aren't when life is rosy and things are going well. It's when we hit the normal ups and downs and run into stress that our ability to hang in there (both with diet and weight) get tested. So for the most part, my maintenance was pretty easy. But add in some stress and it does become something I have to battle more. If the stress and upheavals are a normal part of a person's life, they're naturally going to experience a greater struggle. The issues I have with food are emotional and are really tangled and complicated.

There is still no physical desire there unless I trigger it with some type of food - and even then I'd probably be battling a mental/emotional food association more than a real, genuine, physical desire to eat.

I do still eat what I lot of people call junk. But I try very hard to keep it in moderation. And if I'm feeling particularly stressed or going through a lot, I try to limit my exposure to that stuff. Because yeah, it could easily become a mindless food binge if I went after the junk food on a really bad day at the end of a rough week.

I've done it before and suffered no regains, but in the back of my head is that voice that says I've just been lucky so far, and I must be more careful or it could be an issue the next time.

I don't know if it gets easier. I think my whole perspective is skewed from where I would have been had I not had a baby and been forced to lose weight again. If you had asked me at two years out, before I was pregnant, I'd say it wasn't hard and it was easy. That food was just food and not good or bad - that the real issue lies with controlling how I use food and how much of it I eat.

But having the last five months be what they've been - facing a lot of struggles and a new baby (and likely some postpartum blues for good measure) has really changed my mind about a lot of this.

Do I find it easy to avoid eating foods I shouldn't and to avoid gaining weight at three years out? Yes.

But do I find myself wanting to lean on food more, or skip fast days or just eat what I want because I can do it once in a while without gaining (so far)? Yes.

Every day is not a challenge for me.

So in that respect, maintenance is okay - if I can really even call myself "in maintenance" right now while I'm still trying to shed a few pounds.

The issue comes up when we have something change. New medication, new house, new baby, life issues, sick friends, sick family, etc. It's how we cope - and I don't really think that gets any easier the longer you get out from surgery.

And for me, the way I am eating has NOTHING to do with that - I can eat what I want. For me, that's okay. It's the stress/boredom/mindless eating I have to watch. The desire to eat a brownie doesn't show up because I ate chips the other day. It shows up because I have a bad day and food is my drug and will probably always be my drug.

So I guess all of this rambling (which probably makes no sense to anyone but me) is all to say that how hard it is will likely depend on first and foremost, your relationship with food. If you use food to cope or satisfy or soothe, I think you're going to have a much harder time at any point life gets tough. And if you're just a volume eater that enjoys food too much, you're probably going to have an easier time in maintenance. My opinion, based upon my own experience, is that it's a separate issue from regular diet.

Moderation works incredibly well for me, and I do eat things and make things that I get the feeling many here would cringe about and many would not be able to eat and walk away from as easily. I don't think there's any easy answer here. I do think that no matter what, being careful about my weight will never, ever go away. If I use that as a benchmark of success - staying in my maintenance window, I mean - I can't see how it could be an issue. It's when I avoid the scale that I have an issue because I get "surprised" by five pounds (it's never happened, BTW, I'm using it as an example of my past behavior) so if I weigh daily and make small adjustments as needed, how could I ever get out of control again without a major upset to my health or without consciously choosing to stray completely and overindulge regularly?

I probably sound slightly judgmental - along the lines of "if you're not losing you're not trying" but I am genuinely curious if anyone has been diligent and just been sideswiped by a gain of more than five pounds. Because I might be forgetting things I've read but I swear that almost every single regain post (that isn't due to a medication/illness) involves deliberately avoiding the scale and eating "wrong."

Am I mistaken?

I clearly need more calories. Today's a fast day and without my realizing it's gotten past noon and I haven't eaten. I doubt this makes any sense. I'll have to eat something and come back to edit it later, to make it coherent!

~Cheri

[Georgia 2,908]

At 16 months into maintenance. it still worries me. In the back of my mind' date=' I think, if I can stay 5 years at goal, I will feel like I can make it the rest of my life. Why 5 years? Many people experience regain between years 3 and 6. At 5 years at goal, I will be almost 6 years out. And even cancer patients are considered good if they go 5 years with a relapse.

I'm not like you. I miss sweets and other foods still. I feel like crap if I eat much of them, but I miss them anyway. And I do not want to forbid them, just limit them to a reasonable amount that allows me an occasional treat while at goal.

Lynda[/quote']

I agree totally with this,Lynda. 3 years out. Back almost to goal, the. 4, then 5.

And I also miss sweets and other foods. I don't CRAVE them but if I'm at a function I allow myself that treat. I just know NOW not to bring them into my house!

I will be 60 in January. Want to be at healthy goal weight into the years when ailments tend to creep up on you.