The Biblical Case for Pro-Choice & Stem Cell Research

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

The Biblical Case for Being Pro-Choice and Funding Stem Cell Research

Genesis 2.7 says, “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Fetuses and stem-cells, on the other hand are not breathing. And until they take their first breath, they would not be considered as being alive or having a soul as indicated by Genesis 2.7 or by the law in most states. When a baby is found dead and abandoned, the test for whether it is a homicide or a stillborn is to perform an autopsy and determine if the lungs have ever been inflated. No inflation equals no breathing equals no homicide. So, it would seem that Genesis 2.7, our legal code and I all agree on the point that Abortion and Stem Cell Research are not murder.

[susannah 2]

Gday Jack, I will just simply say that for people like myself who have Multiple Sclerosis I am excited by the possible advances and possible cures that stem cell research could bring. I am not religious, but I do respect that this is an area that is quite sensitive for people to talk about so I Would leave it at that.

Susannah

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I feel that to say that something is sensitive and should not be talked about, but then to allow people to run other people's lives because of some notion of theirs which is contradicted by the same book that the controllers quote in order to control other people's lives is perpetuating the control by the controllers. So I will discuss it.

I dare anyone to show me where God, Jesus, Allah or any other God of a major religion is against stem cell research, or for protecting the "life" of a 16 cell embryo in a petri dish.

[susannah 2]

Gday Tired, don't get me wrong, I know this is a sensitive issue and I, meaning myself would leave it there, but by all means feel free to discuss it. It really doesn't affend my sensibilities. I Just hope there will be a cure for my particular disease, because I am 36 years old and feel 70 most days.

That's the way the cookie crumbles for me I guess. Susannah

[bitteroldhag 0]

I agree with TOM as usual. I am a Unitarian, so I'm not really a Christian. In fact, I'm a transcendentalist, but it seems to me that if the Oversoul gave us the brains to figure this stuff out, we should use them. Most fetuses from which stem cells may arise are due to be thrown out anyway. Better to end up helping a living person than end up down a drain. I have a problem with all the people who worry about the unborn, but seem to think that the diseases of the born are just too bad. But if they can create stem cells from fat, I have a lot to donate.

I also think people who are anti-abortion should simply adopt all children born because abortion isn't available. That would solve a bunch of problems. As is, these folks, who seem to be mostly led by men who can't have children anyway, are all for poor women having children who will lead horrible lives. So my idea is that all children born due to anti-abortion laws be adopted by families' who are anti-abortion. If a man is rabildy anti-abortion, he should raise at least 5 kids from women who were denied an abortion. Anti-abortion families could raise 10 kids. That should take care of the worst of the problem. I'm serious about this. People all too often force their own ideas on others without thought about the consequences to the other people involved. If they faced the consequences, maybe that would mitigate their ideas. So if abortion is declared illegal, I recommend a grassroots movement to promote my idea. Sometimes, I'm so brilliant I amaze myself.:biggrin1:

[Sunta 5]

Anyone who actively contributes to stopping the advancment of stem-cell research is comitting an egregious crime against humanity. Although I would never wish illness on anyone, I do think how ironic it would be if some of these anti stem-cell research folks were to come down with an illness that ruins their quality of life, and they have to suffer in a wheelchair with a feeding tube and breathing machine, when they would have been able to be cured by stem cell research. How could they look at someone with one of these types of illnesses and ever justify their stance? Funny how when it really hits home and you actually SEE people who could be cured, you change your tune, like the Reagans!

Tissue used in stem cell research would never be viable fetuses. It's truly disgusting and sickening that anyone would stand in the way of this very important scientific advancement.

[TommyO 5]

Why is it that any time the world moves forward the religious right tries to push back, It's funny how they are always apposed to such matters based on the right to life but at the same time they seem to be leading the charge when it comes to going to war with non christian nations.

Any way I am strongly in favor of stem cell research and I am certain that It need not be justified by any biblical reference. For that matter I refuse to argue the issue with any close minded right wing fundementalist Christian who wants me to take them seriously when they advocate that the bible conatins an accurate description of the origins of the universe.

Cheers and Happy New Year to all

TommyO

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Why is it that any time the world moves forward the religious right tries to push back, It's funny how they are always apposed to such matters based on the right to life but at the same time they seem to be leading the charge when it comes to going to war with non christian nations.

Any way I am strongly in favor of stem cell research and I am certain that It need not be justified by any biblical reference. For that matter I refuse to argue the issue with any close minded right wing fundementalist Christian who wants me to take them seriously when they advocate that the bible conatins an accurate description of the origins of the universe.

Cheers and Happy New Year to all

TommyO

The problem is that there are a lot of good middle of the road sensible Christians who are being mislead by politically active televangilists and local clergy who use these issues to build a blind following. I have yet to see anyone quote Jesus or God (or Allah for that matter) to refute my biblical reference to when life begins. Too many good Christians are led around by peer pressure and by men in the pulpit who pretend to be Godly, but are actually as worldly as a CEO of any Forbes 500 company.

[TommyO 5]

Stem cell research is taking place and it will continue to take place. Advances may happen elsewhere but they will happen. I understand your point but the truth is we live in a global economy and there are many modern countries that have the skill and talent to continue to make advances in stem cell research and they are not hindered leadership that holds some fundamentalist idealogy.

Remember what Ceasar did when Rome burned, well it appears that the match has been lit and a small fire has been started. Rome may very well be burning and everyone in Rome is looking to the heavens for answers when all they really need is a bucket of Water. (If you know what I mean)

It may appear that I have lost my marbles but it seems to me that many of the topics that your raise T_O_M represent further examples of what might be the beggining of a period that will one day be refeered to in History books as the fall of the American Empire.

TommyO

[bitteroldhag 0]

Tommyo -- You're right and have not lost your marbles. Other countries are moving along at a very quick pace. I read this morning about people going to India and Thailand for surgery. It's luxurious and cheap. I went to Mexico and have never been in such a nice hospital. In fact, I have stayed at a lot of big name hotels and they've never been that nice except possibly for the Mark Hopkins in I-forget-the-name-of-the-town Florida. I think that the "third" world is rapidly becoming first world and the U.S. must keep up or become second rate. If we keep being conservative, we will lose out. We may lose out anyway, but we definitely will if we don't change. But change is hard. It's so easy to stay in one's comfortable rut. Maybe after all the baby boomers die, things will be better.

[serious 2]

I went to Monterrey, Mexico to be banded and will be going back to my wonderful doctor for my fills. Bitteroldhag, you should read on the "net" something called Medical Tourism. It has always existed, but now is growing in leaps and bounds as more and more Americans and Canadians are going to other countries to get surgery, dental care etc. While I was in Monterrey, I met several Americans who were from Southern Cal who told me everybody there goes to Mexico to get their dental work, because it is just too expensive in the US. I researched when I got home, and you would not believe the number of Mexican dentists who have practices where over 60% of their patients are Americans or Canadians. Stem cell research will continue....whether people here want it to or not. We no longer have the best healthcare system in the world, just the most expensive.

[sweethot143 2]

The Biblical Case for Being Pro-Choice and Funding Stem Cell Research

Genesis 2.7 says, “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Fetuses and stem-cells, on the other hand are not breathing. And until they take their first breath, they would not be considered as being alive or having a soul as indicated by Genesis 2.7 or by the law in most states. When a baby is found dead and abandoned, the test for whether it is a homicide or a stillborn is to perform an autopsy and determine if the lungs have ever been inflated. No inflation equals no breathing equals no homicide. So, it would seem that Genesis 2.7, our legal code and I all agree on the point that Abortion and Stem Cell Research are not murder.

wow, what a way to twist Scripture! If adam was dust he was not a living soul. he wasn't a growing baby in a womb! Totally different.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

wow, what a way to twist Scripture! If adam was dust he was not a living soul. he wasn't a growing baby in a womb! Totally different.

Twisting scripture?

Adam was a fully developed man before God breathed life into him and until Adam took his first breath he was not considered a man nor did he have a soul.

Why should a fetus be any different from Adam in God's eyes before it becomes a baby and takes it's first breath? Is a fetus growing in a women's womb any more of a miracle than God taking dust and creating a man? Yes, the man (Adam) was dead and soul-less at first, but that first breath brought humanity and a soul to Adam.

Is an embryo more of a human than the body of Adam before God breathed life into it? Does an embryo have a soul because a lab technician forced a microscopic sperm cell through the shell of a microscopic egg? Or does it take God to put a soul into that embryo? Would God go around putting souls into every embryo that technicians fertilize at every lab in the world? Or would he have the infinite patience to wait until the embryo is implanted, becomes a fetus and finally is born as a human baby? My money goes on God being intelligent and patient enough to save his precious souls for implanting into babies who are born. Not into embryos or even babies who will be aborted or still born.

What would God do with a still born baby or an aborted fetus or a 16 cell embryo? Would God send them to Hell? Would God allow them into Heaven? Would God reuse that soul in another body? “Who are we to question God's ways" some might say.

I say, "don't question God's ways, just read Genesis 2.7 and see that God only placed a soul (and simultaneously life) into Adam upon Adam's first breath".

If my interpretation of scripture is twisted, where is scripture that contradicts my interpretation of "Genesis 2.7"?

[Betsyjane 2]

Medical tourism certainly is growing. I was in Thailand in March and people from all over the world were coming there for procedures that, 5 star hotel included for recovery, were cheaper than here, with well trained physicians. I was at the Oriental Hotel, and as plush as it is, therre were Medical Tourists there. I thought about going back for my lap band, but decided I wanted follow up and fills to be by the guy who did this to me!

I want our country to embrace stem cell research and not lose it, and so many other things, to the rest of the world. We are being Medieval!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I want our country to embrace stem cell research and not lose it, and so many other things, to the rest of the world. We are being Medieval!

That's what happens when a country gets involved in "Holy Wars". Seperation of "Church and State" is extremely important to stop the religious people from driving our foreign policy. The present administration only embraces science and technology when it comes to weapons developement.