No longer invisible, and that's what I wanted, I thought ...

[missyjoy2078 381]

Thank you for posting this. This is my fear for after (surgery is July 1). I am so glad to hear advice prior.

[Rust E. Nale 2]

I am sad that you think that "all the men's eyes are on me" and that most men are piggish and brutes. It is really ok if men want to look at you don't you think? Most men do not want to attack and rape you, most men like to admire a pretty woman. The more victimized you feel, the more of a victim you become but be careful of hitting the other end of the spectrum as well. If you put on your witch face. You might find yourself becoming unapproachable and therefore undateable. Prince Charming will not fall out of the sky....it is ok for you too let someone in. If you think that all men are pigs....then they will become so and you will lose.....

[Kalimomof3 613]

I am sad that you think that "all the men's eyes are on me" and that most men are piggish and brutes. It is really ok if men want to look at you don't you think? Most men do not want to attack and rape you' date=' most men like to admire a pretty woman. The more victimized you feel, the more of a victim you become but be careful of hitting the other end of the spectrum as well. If you put on your witch face. You might find yourself becoming unapproachable and therefore undateable. Prince Charming will not fall out of the sky....it is ok for you too let someone in. If you think that all men are pigs....then they will become so and you will lose.....[/quote']

I agree with the sentiment some ...However in your current environment Globetrotter I would stick with "men are pigs" bc all the men's eyes probably are on you. Like I said my husband was there last year and he had nothing good to say about the way those boys behave over there unless they were married and even some of the married ones were questionable...Proceed with caution at least until you get home I say

[Globetrotter 1,340]

Rust E Nale, you did not get the nuance of my thread at all.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Rust E Nale, you did not get the nuance of my thread at all.

It may not be reflective of the what you were wanting to talk about but the comment was still accurate.

I realize that I am completely opposite of you so it's hard for me to empathize with what you are going through. I enjoy the attention. I've always gotten it, fat or thin, but the larger I got, the attention changed. When I was in high school/college, I was a size 2/4 and had 36DDDs, I've always had an "hourglass" figure, and I carry my weight evenly. You know the song that says "36/24/36? Only if she's 5'3"." That was always me before two kids and a brain tumor.

Because of my personality, my previous lack of ability to keep myself out of stupid situations and my body type, I attracted a lot of negative attention and I never pushed it away until it went too far. (I will leave the details to your imagination as it is personal, but I assume you know where I'm going.)

I did not let that experience defeat me. It's not because of that experience that I got fat either. What I did do was learn to read the behavioral signs better. I learned Martial Arts. I learned self defense. I learned how to use personal items as weapons. I will NOT stop enjoying attention and I am looking forward to getting back to my old self physically (27.6 pounds closer as of today!), but I will NEVER have someone force themselves upon me again.

Not all men are bad. Not all looks are lascivious Not all women are evil gossipers. Not all whispers are malicious. Sometimes our expectations manipulate our perceptions. I urge you to seek counseling for your issues and when you feel more confident, confront your "bullies". If I feel as if someone is talking bad about me, I ask them to their face in a kind but matter of fact manner. Their opinion doesn't really matter to me, but that said, I will not tolerate bullying and I've often found that what I thought was reality was insecurity on their part and I've walked away with a few friends because of it.

Is it easy? No. Is it worth it? Absolutely. I have a wonderful husband of 18 years, two beautiful children that see me as a role model, a successful home business, a wonderful core group of good friends and now I am getting my health back. I am far too old and have far too many good things going on in my life to care about a few strangers on the street. People can look all they want, they can talk all they want, but what they cannot do is change who I am and what I have accomplished. Period.

[Chelenka 827]

Thank you Globetrotter for starting this thread. It brings up so many issues that are, perhaps, unique to women. I find myself revisiting this thread a lot. After having dispensed my sage advice here and on another thread yesterday, I was feeling like the queen of wisdom and then in the wee hours this morning had a total freak-out and panic attack! Guess I need to call my therapist!

I've been fat my whole life. My identity is so wrapped up in my fatness. My fat has seemed like a shield of protectiveness and I allowed it to hold me back from pursuing my dreams way too often cuz that way I could safely fail without really trying. Now as I am losing weight I wonder who I will be at the end of this journey? I feel frightened of the unknown and while I enjoy stranger's more positive reactions I also find myself getting mad at the people close to me who either don't notice my weight loss or don't say anything about it or give me what I call a left-handed compliment, compliment with a caveat.

But I digress. I realized in my freaked-out state that I'm afraid of putting myself out there again with my career. I'm a professional singer of opera and classical music. People always say to me that they thought all opera singers are fat! LOL! Well some are and some aren't but the reality of working as a performing artist is that the pressure to be as thin and fit as possible is very intense. That being said, I didn't have this surgery for my career, I had it because I was in pain all the time and miserable in my body and I didn't want live like that. My career had been at a stand still since 2011 because of my weight-related back and knee issues which hampered my ability to do much of anything much less move on the stage. I was knee deep in denial about it for a long time. But now looking back I can see that I also felt hopeless to truly change myself and also very afraid at the same time. I was truly stuck.

Now, having gone thru the surgery and dropped 50lbs so far, I am finding that my career may be viable again but I'm feeling so afraid. I feel fearful of putting myself on the line again because I don't feel totally in control of myself. How do I behave now that I'm not always on the defensive or apologizing for being fat? How will I be perceived now? I can't control what others think, do or say and I try not to take negative responses personally but to be honest, I'm not too good at that. What if an attractive man comes on to me? i'm happily married but not dead. will I be able to keep myself in control? I feel so much sexier sometimes, despite my still-fat body, droopy boobs etc. I apologize for this somewhat unrelated ramble but I'm having a crisis here!! Laughing at myself now!

pre-surgery weight 325; surgery date 2/28/2013; surgery weight 307; 8 weeks past-op weight 281.4

[TheOldMeAgain 128]

Men are visual creatures. There is no way to get around that fact. Their going to judge, rate you and come onto you. It's not something you should be frighten of but embrace. Use it to your advantage. Especially if your surrounded by military men. Many of them are alpha males and will see you as a woman first. It may not be right but its something I had to put up with a lot when I was in the military. Your personally has a lot to do with it. The more pretty, confident and friendly you are the more men will be drawn to you. So many ppl look down on overweight ppl let alone obese ppl. That in returns effects most of our self-esteem. I feel that there may be some underline resentment there toward men from you. At first you were not worthy now you are because of superficial reasons. Don't let it eat you up inside. How others think and perceive you are out of your control. Very few are lucky to find someone who love them for who they truly are. The best advice I can give is give it time. Soon you won't be so self-aware and the attention will become normal.

As for other females. They see you as competition now. Now you're a potential threat for attention, respect and admiration from others. Some can't handle that reality therefor come up with ways to make you look or feel bad. A lot of ppl think being slim and attractive makes life easier and it does, but it also become more dog eat dog. It's the nature of the beast.

[O.T.R. sleever 3,386]

A bit of insight.

The vast majority of us guys have a built in need to protect. If you are ever in a situation where you feel threatened, simply pick a guy and tell him that you are uncomfortable. He will do whatever is needed to ensure your safety. Our natural instinct is to provide & protect, and we will walk away feeling better about ourselves. There is a reason that Boy Scouts walked little old ladies across the streets in days gone by. It wasn't because she really needed it, it's because it gave the young man a sense of pride & service.

The unfortunate reality is men aren't allowed to be men anymore. Give us permission to be men, and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Yes, there are a few exceptions out there. But for every one self important jack ass out there there are at least 10 men just begging for a chance to destroy that ones whole world. Reality is, you really do not have to learn how to deal with us, you simply need to give us permission to be who we really are.

This in no way is intended to steer you away from learning to defend yourself, I actually believe that is a great idea. I think all women should do what they can to make themselves less of a target.

[Globetrotter 1,340]

Thank you, all, but LipstickLady - please read more closely. I did not say "all men" nor did I say "all women" and to just throw that in there as if I did, cheapens the deeper meaning of this thread. Had you read more closely you would have seen that I am in a rare and tricky set of circumstances right now, dealing with an environment that is nothing whatsoever like anything you have ever experienced, if you have not been deployed to an active warzone as a woman.

I'm taking a mindfulness class tomorrow, I'm learning how to understand that I cannot control how others react to me, but I can control how I react to others. Also that nobody has the permission to treat me ill, unless I give it to them, and if they attempt to do so, I have the tools to defend myself.

Maybe I will find a way to turn their leers into tender hugs of friendship, in my mind anyway! Cuz I want a hug more than anything right now.

I did try to explain to my team leader tonight at dinner what it feels like to be physically outnumbered. I tried for about 10 minutes but he refused to understand and eventually said, "well I am a white male and if I fail it is all my fault, I can't blame it on anything." Uh, WOW. somehow he interpreted my trying to get him to understand what it's like being a woman here, to complaining and blaming ... and that's life here.

I have attracted attention before, I had relationships when I was at my heaviest, the attention I'm talking about now isn't necessarily that alone, I think one way of describing it is that before I could will myself into invisibility, now I'm in the spotlight whether I'm ready for it or not.

[TheOldMeAgain 128]

Thank you' date=' all, but LipstickLady - please read more closely. I did not say "all men" nor did I say "all women" and to just throw that in there as if I did, cheapens the deeper meaning of this thread. Had you read more closely you would have seen that I am in a rare and tricky set of circumstances right now, dealing with an environment that is nothing whatsoever like anything you have ever experienced, if you have not been deployed to an active warzone as a woman.

I'm taking a mindfulness class tomorrow, I'm learning how to understand that I cannot control how others react to me, but I can control how I react to others. Also that nobody has the permission to treat me ill, unless I give it to them, and if they attempt to do so, I have the tools to defend myself.

Maybe I will find a way to turn their leers into tender hugs of friendship, in my mind anyway! Cuz I want a hug more than anything right now.

I did try to explain to my team leader tonight at dinner what it feels like to be physically outnumbered. I tried for about 10 minutes but he refused to understand and eventually said, "well I am a white male and if I fail it is all my fault, I can't blame it on anything." Uh, WOW. somehow he interpreted my trying to get him to understand what it's like being a woman here, to complaining and blaming ... and that's life here.

I have attracted attention before, I had relationships when I was at my heaviest, the attention I'm talking about now isn't necessarily that alone, I think one way of describing it is that before I could will myself into invisibility, now I'm in the spotlight whether I'm ready for it or not.[/quote']

I was deployed in Iraq so I know and understand exactly how you feel. It's like your a piece of meat for a starving person. This one guy from the company we were replacing offended and disrespected me so bad I immediately reported him to his NCO. Lucky she was a female. Some men in the military don't get it and will try to talk your out of making a formal report. My 1SG tried to do that once to me. While obviously not all men are like that, being surrounded by so many can make it seem that way, causing you to feel more vulnerable. It doesn't get easier but you do get better at handling it.

[lorry66 15]

I wasn't sure if this should go in the Ladies Gone Wild section' date=' but then I really wanted input from men as well, so I figured I would put it here.

I have often wondered if many of us put on weight as a defense mechanism, I think it has been proven time and again -especially with females- that massive weight gain happens after a sexual assault or abuse or something. I'm not saying this means every last fat person was abused, so please, those of you chomping at the bit for someone to flame - no.

What I'm trying to say is ... I was invisible for a very long time. During the years when I should have been learning how to interact with men, get my heart broken, get tough, get wise, learn from romantic mistakes, learn to spot predators - I was cocooned in my obese isolation and never learned any of those things. I never learned what other women learn about other women, that there are so many out there that are so crippled by insecurity that they will attempt to destroy you just to secure their own positions. I never learned that if you appear to present any sort of "threat" to these kinds of women that they will stop at nothing - including destructive gossip and libel, to eradicate you as a threat.

I also didn't learn how to interact with men or rather, I never learned that there are consequences to my behavior; as an obese invisible individual, I was, ironically, treated as a person not a "woman" with all the connotation and baggage therein. I was treated by men as an honorary dude and got to joke and be bawdy and opinionated and they were comfortable around me. Now, if I make eye contact with any man, they see it as an invitation. Now, men are aggressive in trying to mark their territory, and I'm the territory! Now I am viewed as physically weak and now for the first time in my life, I am afraid when I have to walk somewhere alone in the dark.

I don't know how to deal with all of this, I don't know how to weild this power, I was never taught.

Help?[/quote']

Thick or thin whenever I walk into a room full of men I take control of the situation, I never let any man disrespect me in any shape or form. I make it my business to display 100% confidence. Men prey on women who are weak. I will never allow a man to become aggressive with me . I have a job that most of my coworkers are men and basically the bottom line is that men are always going to look , that is not a sin ! It is up to you to take control of yourself ! Never let anyone disrespect you as a woman.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

I always feel invisible' date=' I always feel voiceless. People speak for me, literally. It's like I'm not here. Like there's no point in my being here. Like I'm screaming in a soundproof booth, banging my fists, and people are just walking on by, not noticing or caring. Unless it is men wanting to fu** me now. v_v[/quote']

I felt like you when morbidly obese except for your last statement. The part that bothered me the most when heavy was the sudden down cast of eyes to the ground when attempting to reach out and be friendly. Literally this happened for the last 20 years or so and really messed with my headspace. I stopped trying to be friendly to strangers as it was such a disappointment. I know this is not the same situation as you deployed in a war zone full of t-filled men. However, I think there is some overlap in the ability for these situations to internally affect us in a negative way.

Now it is different after hitting goal weights few months ago and adding muscle after that. Strangers no longer try and ignore my presence after gaining a fit body; in fact, there are smiles and small gestures like opening a door, waiting for me to go first or willing to be helpful in other ways often without me asking. For this, I feel a lot better about others in general now.

[NMJG 1,266]

Globe, I so heartily sympathize with you. I'm not in the same place, and goodness, you do have a major situation where you are located now, but I do have an interesting story. In my mid-30's I decided to go power blonde. I'm naturally medium brown. As soon as I went blonde, people treated me so differently, it was just bizarre. Men suddenly took much greater care of me, such as personally showing me where things were in the grocery store instead of saying, "it's in aisle 9." I also saw a huge difference in the way women treated me. They were rude! I mean, total strangers were actually rude to me. So weird! And I also couldn't get a job for months. I was in Technology at the time. I remember one job fair where a recruiter said to me, "you aren't really technical, are you?" I dyed my hair red and got a job a week later.

No particular lessons from the blonde experiment, but I thought you'd find it interesting. And you blonde ladies out there, try a dark wig for 3 months and see how the other side lives!

Good luck to you, Globe, and stay safe.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Thank you, all, but LipstickLady - please read more closely. I did not say "all men" nor did I say "all women" and to just throw that in there as if I did, cheapens the deeper meaning of this thread. Had you read more closely you would have seen that I am in a rare and tricky set of circumstances right now, dealing with an environment that is nothing whatsoever like anything you have ever experienced, if you have not been deployed to an active warzone as a woman.

Last thing I am going to say, and I do mean it respectfully... You are posting on a public message board and people are going to read and interpret your words based on their own life experiences regardless of how you think you worded it. I have noticed that you consistently chastise people for not "reading closely". not "interpreting correctly", "missing nuances", etc. You are also expecting answers based on your experiences and circumstances, knowing that not everyone is walking in your footsteps. I personally hesitate to post in your threads TO YOU because I know that I will be "wrong" no matter what I say. (A clear example? Your "need more calories thread" where I suggested avocados and nuts and you told me that I had obviously not read the thread because you mentioned those weren't available previously. You hadn't.)

I think you have a great heart and are a good person, but your walls are so high and so thick, I really don't know if you are ready for help. I will continue to post my thoughts and feelings but please do not take them as personal answers to you. If anyone else reading might take a little bit of what I say to heart, without being so negative about every bit of feedback that they don't want to hear, I'm happy.

My best to you.

[Chelenka 827]

Globetrotter: i truly admire and respect everyone who is willing to put their lives on hold and on the line in service to our country. I applaud your courage, you are in a tough situation between a rock and a hard place. I think you team leader's response sounds like he is overwhelmed and didn't know how to process, much less handle what you were trying to convey. Nor did he know how to help you so he went into self-defense mode. Women and men communicate very differently. That's why so many marriages fail.

Perhaps you could find a way to downplay your appearance. Can you wear a sport bra that flattens you, loose clothing and a hat to cover your hair? Don't imagine you currently wear make-up but if so stop wearing it. Some guys are still going to make cat calls and wolf whistles regardless. Just don't react and don't laugh or smile or even look in their direction. Any reaction at all is probably seen as encouragement. There has been a lot in the news about sexual harassment in the armed forces and what a problem it is for women.

Also, is it possible that you could unconsciously be sending out the sexual vibe that is bringing you all this attention? I have never been in your situation but once went thru a period of time where I got hit on a lot, even from the husband's of good friends. It freaked me out but after a while I realized that I had somehow unconsciously encouraged this behavior from men. It doesn't excuse their bad behavior but it's important to try to be self-aware.

Good luck to you.

pre-surgery weight 325; surgery date 2/28/2013; surgery weight 307; 8 weeks past-op weight 281.4; 12 weeks post-op 274