Lower BMI Bandsters!

[BabyGotBack 0]

My stepdaughter bailed on me yesterday to exercise, but I was there anyway so I still exercised.

She called and has to bail on me again!

I am going to do a workout dvd. It is going to rain and I just wanted to stay home.

So, make sure I did it!! I need accountability!

[~Jules~ 0]

Audree, I am watching you. You better do that exercise video. lol

[BabyGotBack 0]

Audree, I am watching you. You better do that exercise video. lol

Thanks!!! I will post when I am done!!!

[BabyGotBack 0]

Audree, anything less than about 1200 cal a day puts the body into

starvation mode. This has been shown with Bandsters repeatedly.IMO,

the only doctors who want less than this are bypass docs who don't

know all the difference between the band and the bypass.

Sadly, few nutritionists are band-knowledgeable either, since most

info has come from personal experience. Few nurtritionists have

personal experience with the band - but a few do.

One practice I'm consulting for in Dr. Trace Curry's in Cincinnati.

His nitritionist , ERin, IS banded. Dr Curry and ERin both use my

Band Guide to instruct their clients.

I wrote a Band Guide for Eating, nutrition, food choices, and basic

band rules and needs. I've shared it with about 2000 Bandsters by

now, and as a result of their sharing it with their own docs, more

than 25 docs are now using it, with my permission, so I'm confident

it is pretty accurate.

You'll find a copy here in the files, called "Band Rules for

Website..."

It bases good loss on a 1200-1500 cal intake for most women. Those

that start over 400#, or men, need about 1800-22oo.

There are a nummber of reasons for this - all based in FACT. You'll

find this amount in other written Band in formation too. We need

certain nutrients for health, and in certain amounts. We're all

trying to regsin our health, not hurt it more by further starvation

diets.

We're also trying to normalize our metabolisms, so we have a chance

at keeping the wt off this time. All the other starvation diets were

exactly what made us fatter and fatter as we rebounded. Why would we

want to do the same thing sgain????

AS we lose, we're going to have to go a bit lower with calories near

goal. There is no place to go lower if we're already below 1000 cal!!

This is a huge reason why so few people can get the last 30-50 # off.

You simply cannot get the Protein, Fiber, and Calcium we need, in

less than 1200 cal of mostly-solid food.

When I was in my year of losing, I asked a PhD nutrition colleague to

try to make up a diet of 1000 cal that provided the nutriets we need

(per national, accepted, proven research) , in the one-cup meals we

can have, and with bandster foods. She could not. Ser did come up

with a number of 1200-cal meal plans, though, that were a big part of

my own success.

Some of these Food Plans are also here in the files: See "Sandy's

food Plans"

Lastly, the 1200-1500 cal a day is the carefully-calculated amount

that takes into consideration an averahe BMR plus normal activity,

counts a bit of exercsie, and then calculates the intake needed to

lose about the 1-2 # a week that is the SAFE and HEALTHY BAND goal

we're after.

It's not just some random amount plucked out of the air, it's a

scientifically-calculated and proven amount. It's also been shown now

for years that this 1200-1500 cal a day is just what many thousands

of Bandsters are doing well on, if they are taking the band needs of

fluids, exercise, and work to overcome emotional eating to heart.

IMO, any doc or nutritionist who tells a Bandter to eat less than

1200-1500 cal a day is doing great disservice to their patients and

setting them up for another failure, as well as MORE nutritional

deficiencies. It just does not work. We usually don't even lose - and

if we do, temporarily, it is not a loss that will last or repair our

health.

In the early post-op periods, we may nbot be able to get enough in,

but that is ok for this short period. By get to the 1200 asap, using

good band foods. if you're unable to eat this much, you won't need a

fill for a good while. They are never given automatically, but only

if you need them.

This is from the Smarterbandsters yahoo forum.

[BabyGotBack 0]

Today went well. I ate well and am at about 510 calories right now. My goal is 1200, but I am not going to stress about it.

I am going to post in the morning and in the evening after my kids are in bed, 8pm. I have been on so much just because I needed to. But, I have to reign it in a little. Now that I am fully recovered and don't have the excuse of needing to rest, my kids need me to be more active and there.

Tonight I have something at church, so I may not post until the evening for a few.

I am going to try not to post too much when my kids and husband are around. Just on my own free time after I have taken care of my responsibilities.

So, even if i won't be posting as much, I am still going to be checking in everyday!!!

PM me if you'd like more specific info!!!

See you all tonight!

Audree

[deckedout 0]

Well,

I wore my dress today and got a lot of compliments! It wasn't even as hard to put on the nylons. I'm sure that is cause I wasn't fighting all my fat to do it. When I was putting them on, I was remembering what I think is the last time I tried to wear hose. I think it was in August at open house or no it was 6th grade orientation. I tried to get them on in the lady's room after working in my classroom all day. I worked up such a sweat, it was 100 already, then I ripped them, then I decided I wouldn't wear them at all. That was over 2 years ago!

Anyway, I swam this morning and got all ready in my pretty dress for work. Go, ME!

I am also having trouble getting my Water in. Ever since my last fill, Dec. 15th, I've had Christmas break and then for the month of January I had a student teacher. WEll, I'm back to teaching my classes now, and boy, it is hard to get that water in. I try to drink 24 oz before and after my morning workout. Then, during my prep period, like around 830, I eat Breakfast. I've started those Weight Control oatmeal packets, they are pretty good and soft enough for me in the morning.

So, then I get busy, and today I have just started on my 2nd 24 oz water and it is after 4! I guess I better work harder at getting the H2O down.

I hope everyone had a great day. Audree: EXERCISE!

[~Jules~ 0]

Deckedout,

I am so proud of you for wearing that dress. I bet you looked great in it!!!!

[BabyGotBack 0]

Today was good!

This is what I ate today:]

Breakfast: 2 eggs, one slice of cheddar cheese and mushrooms

Lunch: 5 chicken stuffed with mozerella meatballs

Snack: black Beans and cheese

Dinner: shrimp, fish brocolli stirfry

Liquids: 70 ounces of Water

Exercise: 1 hour on the elyptical machine

Supplements: 1 tbsp. Glacial Milk liquid Vitamin and 1 Quickslim

I was only able to get in about 900 calories, but I don't feel like I can eat more. I ate a little fast since I was with my kids and it didn't sit well.

How were all of your days???

[Success in lapband 0]

Baby;

Do you work? I am just curious how you live in S.Cal where everything is 30-45 minutes away and you have a full schedule as far as I can see, I am curious where you fit work into this?

Are you a housewife?

[BabyGotBack 0]

Baby;

Do you work? I am just curious how you live in S.Cal where everything is 30-45 minutes away and you have a full schedule as far as I can see, I am curious where you fit work into this?

Are you a housewife?

Yes, I am a stay at home mother. Fortunately for me, everything I need is within a few blockes of me. The futhest thing is my kids private school and the gym which is only 10 minutes away.

[BabyGotBack 0]

Well,

I wore my dress today and got a lot of compliments! It wasn't even as hard to put on the nylons. I'm sure that is cause I wasn't fighting all my fat to do it. When I was putting them on, I was remembering what I think is the last time I tried to wear hose. I think it was in August at open house or no it was 6th grade orientation. I tried to get them on in the lady's room after working in my classroom all day. I worked up such a sweat, it was 100 already, then I ripped them, then I decided I wouldn't wear them at all. That was over 2 years ago!

Anyway, I swam this morning and got all ready in my pretty dress for work. Go, ME!

I am also having trouble getting my Water in. Ever since my last fill, Dec. 15th, I've had Christmas break and then for the month of January I had a student teacher. WEll, I'm back to teaching my classes now, and boy, it is hard to get that water in. I try to drink 24 oz before and after my morning workout. Then, during my prep period, like around 830, I eat breakfast. I've started those Weight Control oatmeal packets, they are pretty good and soft enough for me in the morning.

So, then I get busy, and today I have just started on my 2nd 24 oz water and it is after 4! I guess I better work harder at getting the H2O down.

I hope everyone had a great day. Audree: EXERCISE!

I bet you looked hot!!! I hate panty hose!! They always tear when I put them on! I can't wait for the day I can wear a sexy dress and no panty hose. I did my workout!!! I did my elyptical machine at home for 1 hour!!! Thanks for being my accountability. I need it!!

[toqu 0]

Liquids: 70 ounces of Water

Exercise: 1 hour on the elyptical machine

Supplements: 1 tbsp. Glacial Milk liquid Vitamin and 1 Quickslim

Is Quickslim an appetite suppressant? I was wondering if you found that you needed it to curb your appetite or cravings. I need to take the appetite suppressants from my previous doc not to crave the sweets. I am almost out of those and need something else to help that won't make me all jittery or give me a headache.

I have been doing the Glacial Milk and that has been going well.:clap2:

[BabyGotBack 0]

Is Quickslim an appetite suppressant? I was wondering if you found that you needed it to curb your appetite or cravings. I need to take the appetite suppressants from my previous doc not to crave the sweets. I am almost out of those and need something else to help that won't make me all jittery or give me a headache.

I have been doing the Glacial Milk and that has been going well.:clap2:

I don't necessarily take it for appetite for now, but it helps with energy and supports weight loss, metabolism, etc.

But, it doesn suppress the apptite very well!

[BabyGotBack 0]

BAND EATING GUIDELINES, NUTRITION, FOODS and TIPS FOR BAND SUCCESS

Basic Lap-Band Eating Rules

Goals: To prevent vomiting or PB’ing, which can endanger your band. To produce healthy, slow weight loss. To adopt improved eating habits that will last for life, so you can MAINTAIN your weight loss this time. To regain good nutritional status.

<DIR><DIR>Choose only good band foods. (most of the time – no one is perfect!)

Choose only high quality foods, since you are eating so little. You’re worth the best!

Start with a tiny bite – the size of a PEA. Chunks of food, or swallowing larger amounts, will block or hurt the stoma.

Chew very well – a minimum of 15-20 times per bite. Later, you can adjust this to your own needs.

Eat slowly. Put the fork DOWN between bites and listen for your "full" signal. Learn to savor every bite. Wolfing food must be in the past.

No fluids with meals, or for one hour after eating. (Some docs stress 2 hours)

No carbonation, as it is related to pouch dilation and erosions. Beer has carbonation, too.

Eat the Protein first, then the veggies, then other things if you have room.

With a good fill, aim for about 1 cup mostly-solid food per meal. More can stretch your pouch.

Eat for a maximum of 20-30 minutes only. Longer than this, and food will be leaving the pouch as you put more in, and you will take in too many calories.

Don’t lie down for 2 hours after a meal. If you nap after lunch, use a recliner. An excellent time for exercise is after eating.

Aim for 3 small, regular and planned meals a day, with 2 small protein Snacks, if needed. With a good fill, you should not be hungry between meals, if you are choosing good Band foods. Before a good fill, do the best you can to choose only healthy foods, and limit quantities.

Avoid eating solids within 2-3 hrs of bedtime, as this encourages reflux. Avoid taking medications at bedtime – take them one hour before bedtime with a full glass of Water, to get them through the pouch. Meds at bedtime also encourage reflux.

NEVER get more fill if you are having ANY trouble. You MUST master one level of fill before going higher.

AVOID ALL liquid calories, once you are back on soft or regular foods. This includes juices and Protein Drinks. See "FOODS TO AVOID" for more information on this.

</DIR></DIR>Band Nutritional Needs

Goals: To obtain the needed nutrition to lose slowly and safely, so you can MAINTAIN your loss.

To replenish nutrients you may not have gotten with previous, futile diet attempts.

To start to regain your Health and prevent future diet-related illnesses and disease. .

THE AVERAGE LOSS WITH THE BAND IS 1-2 # A WEEK, AVERAGED OVER A MONTH’S TIME. DO NOT EXPECT MORE! (If you are getting ALL the nutrients you need, and still lose faster – GREAT!)

We also will never lose at a steady rate, or lose every single week or month. Regular breaks are normal and expected!

<DIR><DIR>At least 1200-1500 cal a day, as soon as you have recovered from surgery and are able. Less than this, and you will likely not lose well, and you will be nutritionally deficient. The Band is about regaining health, not simply weight loss. LESS is NOT BETTER, and will easily stall weight loss.

A good goal for most women is 1200-1500 cal a day, with a good fill. For most men, about 1600-2000 cal a day. Heavier people may need more at first, like 1800-2200 cal or more a day. . Figure out your BMR if you want to be specific, but this is not needed.

Women: 50-60 grams of solid protein daily. (averaged over a week is fine)

</DIR>25 gm fiber. (You may need a supplement if unable to obtain through food.)

1200 mg Calcium – if under 50 yrs of age

1500 mg Calcium if 50 or over and NOT on Estrogen. (CA supplements like

chewable Viactiv are excellent)

Men: 60-80 grams of solid protein daily (averaged over a week is fine)

25 grams fiber.

1200 mg calcium

4. 64-100 oz per day MINIMUM of no-calorie Fluid, more in hot weather or with heavy exercise. Crystal light and other VERY low-cal fluids are ok. 2 glasses of nonfat milk daily are fine, for the Calcium content

5. Minimize or delete alcohol and coffee. Both are known gastric irritants, and alcohol is full

of useless calories. Perhaps "buffer" the coffee with a non-fat milk, which adds protein too.

6. One daily, adult, chewable Multi-Vitamin. One additional daily B complex (Biotin) may also be helpful, but other supplements are not needed. Bandsters absorb all Vitamins and minerals in food normally.

Good Band Foods

<DIR>Soft, high-quality meat, fish, chicken. Keep moist with low-cal sauces, gravies, marinade, lowfat gravies, salsas. Lean pork is excellent, and has fewer calories than chicken.

Cook foods gently over lower heat. BBQ may be too dry. Avoid frying and greasy foods. Crock pots, pot roasts and stews are excellent to cook slowly and retain moisture.

</DIR></DIR>3. Fiber cereals and fiber crackers. Read labels – Kashi Go Lean "Crunch" is full of protein and fiber.

<DIR><DIR>Veggies.

Non-fat dairy – nonfat milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, lowfat cheese.

Small quantities of lower-cal fruits. Veggies have ALL the vits and minerals of fruit, but far fewer calories. Calories DO count!

Lettuce Salads are NOT good nutrition, or good Band foods. Really! They have few calories and next-to-no nutrition, despite what we thought! Eat REAL, solid, nutritious food that will fill you and leave the pouch slowly. We’re NOT trying to eat as few calories as possible but ENOUGH to lose well. A

Nice Chef salad is fine, but eat all the good protein first, then a few bites of lettuce if you have room.

</DIR></DIR>

Good Bandster Snacks

<DIR><DIR>Soft beef Jerky, like Tillamook brand

String cheese (lowfat)

Yogurt, like Dannon "Lite N, Fit" – only 60 cal a cup.

Carrots and celery, maybe dipped in nonfat Salad Dressing like Miracle Whip

Air-popped popcorn (only) – no fats or oils. Nice crunch!

Rice cakes – 50 cal each, and great crunch

Baked, lowfat crackers with fiber – Triscuit, Wheat Thins

Fiber Cereal and nonfat milk

Small, peeled apple or other lower-calorie fruit

Low-cal fruit pop or lowfat ice cream/fudgesickle treat

Hard-boiled egg, dipped in a nonfat dressing if you like

Calorie-free hard candy. (Be careful! sugar-free does not mean Calorie–free!!)

</DIR>

</DIR>Foods to Avoid / Problem Foods

<DIR>Goal: To use your small pouch space for only the best nutrition and foods that will advance your weight loss. To AVOID barfing, and/or plugging up your stoma.

<DIR>Potatoes, rice, white Pasta, all breads/bagels – they are poor nutrition, and often plug up the stoma.

( The soy-based pastas are great, and have great fiber and protein. www.nutritionkitchen.com )

DRY foods – dry meat, dry salmon, dry crackers, dry eggs. Use low-cal sauces, gravies, marinades, salsas to moisten foods. A crockpot or slow cooker is ideal for cooking soft meats and fish.

Citrus and fruit membranes are hard to chew adequately – cross-cut into tiny pieces, chew very well.

Poor quality meats with fat and gristle are often not tolerated. Choose a small, soft, high-quality steak or other meat instead.

STRINGY foods can be hard to chew well – artichokes, broccoli STALKS

AVOID peels – apple, pear, peach, Tomato, grape etc – very hard to chew well enough. Peel fruits. Eat RAISINS individually and chew very well.

NO LIQUID CALORIES – an important basic Band Rule. Avoid all juices, (nothing but sugar water) sodas (diet or not), and caloried fluids. VERY low-cal fluids like Crystal Light are fine. V8 is only 50 cal a glass, and full of vits.

</DIR>You may also have 2 glasses of nonfat milk per day, if you like, to meet calcium needs.

<DIR>Mimimize alcohol.

Protein drinks are also just liquid calories and good to AVOID once you are back onto soft foods.

The Band does not work with ANY FLUID. Solids require burning of calories to digest. liquids do not. Liquids like protein drinks also do not keep you full.

MOST foods will work fine, if you remember to start with pea-sized bites and then CHEW VERY

WELL. This just takes time and practice to learn new habits.

</DIR></DIR>

Stop Eating at the First Sensation of "Full"

1. "Full" with the band is means: "comfortable, just enough, satisfied, not hungry any longer."

It does NOT mean "stuffed, uncomfortable, way too much." (as before banding) If you get

this full with the band, you will likely vomit and have problems.

2. Learn your own "soft stop" signals. They can be one or more of the following: a single burp, a

single hiccup, a sudden sneeze, sudden runny nose, sinus pressure, pressure in the

center of your chest, general uncomfortable feeling in your chest, abdomen, or back,

shoulder pain. Stop eating! Even if you must spit out what is already in your mouth.

A "hard stop" is when you have missed the "soft stop" signs, and continue to eat more so

You vomit or "slime".

3. It may take awhile for your eyes and brain to accept that the small portion on your plate really

is enough food. Just takes practice.

Tips for Eating out

<DIR><DIR>Consider ordering an appetizer for your entrée. Things like a shrimp cocktail are ideal. Then,

</DIR>Maybe, nab a few bites of a veggie, if you have room, from your friend or spouse.

<DIR>Don’t even go into fast food places. Avoid the temptation. One fatty, junk meal there will likely sabotage several day’s worth of good efforts. It will also not keep you full.

</DIR>3. Plan your meals and choose only good places. Avoid "all you can eat" places.

4. Ask for a "doggie bag" when you order. When the meal comes, put everything except a small

Bandster portion into the doggie bag and out of sight.

General tips

<DIR>Plan healthy meals ahead of time. This helps avoid grabbing whatever is in sight. Stick to your grocery list.

Never shop for food when you are hungry. A good time is right after breakfast or lunch.

Aim for 3 meals a day, with possibly 1-2 small PLANNED protein snacks. Avoid grazing all day. The band will not work with grazing, or with soft or liquid calories.

Eat more veggies and less fruit. Fruit is largely sugar, and veggies have all the same vitamins and minerals, with far fewer calories.

Put only a small Bandster portion of food on your plate. Don’t eat from a large platter.

Try new foods, and foods you didn’t like before. After banding, our tastes often change, and you’ll find you really like some new things. Try fish –Talapia, especially, is delicious and excellent, soft protein in an easy-to-eat form. Try all veggies again, and with good sauces. Be creative!

Try using a salad-sized plate and a cocktail-sized fork and spoon, if you have trouble accepting that that small portion is all you need.

Drink a full glass of cold water right before eating, as this will help fill you, as well as lubricating your throat and mouth so it is easier not to drink with meals.

If you have pain with the first few bites, this may be esophageal spasms. Try drinking a cup of hot fluid right before you start to eat, to relax the stoma. If not better, ask for help online and from your doctor. There is medication that can be used, if needed, and possibly a very small unfill.

Any good Heart-Healthy cookbook will have great recipes, if you choose those with good Band foods.

</DIR>Eating tips:

<DIR>Don’t expect to change old habits overnight. It took us many years to become obese, and it will take weeks and months to change those bad habits for the better. No one is perfect. Just continue to do better and better every day.

Make a small sign to put in front of you at the table: TINY BITES! CHEW! These will become automatic with time and practice, and are very essential.

Turn off the TV and distractions. Concentrate on eating correctly.

Remove glasses of fluid from your place at the table, to avoid temptation.

Drink a big glass of water shortly before eating, to lubricate your mouth and throat. Then you will not need to drink with meals. This is called "Water Loading" and will help fill you – for NO calories.

Use a cocktail-sized fork and spoon to help you remember "tiny bites."

Use a salad plate to make your meals look bigger.

Make it a point to sit down at the table for all meals, where you can eat consciously and pay attention to what you are doing. Turn off the TV and other distractions.

Stews and crockpots are ideal – moist, soft meat and veggies. Avoid the potatoes and rice.

Some frozen Entrees are good for lunches, as long as you choose the ones with no potatoes, rice, or pasta. Watch the salt, too, as it causes water retention. The Weight Watchers Smart Choice meals with meat and veggies only are excellent.

Plan healthy meals and include regular small treats. Don’t grab whatever is in sight for dinner.< /strong>

Enlist the help of your family so you are all eating healthier and avoiding junk and sweets, except for the occasional treat. Children, especially, need a good diet, as there is a great increase in young children developing diabetes from poor diet and lack of exercise.

Don’t even have junk in the house. Don’t buy a gallon of ice cream. Avoid the temptation. If you decide to have an ice cream treat, GO OUT to get one cone or dish.

</DIR>Medications

<DIR>All meds should be smaller than an aspirin, which is about the size of the stoma. You may need to use liquid meds, or a different brand, or cut up tabs. Be sure the meds you take CAN safely be cut – your pharmacist is a good resource for this.

Be especially careful of antibiotics, as they are very irritating to the stoma and have caused many problems. Liquid antibiotics are safest, but SMALL capsules or cut-up tabs are ok if washed through.

Follow ALL meds with a full glass of water or milk, to wash them completely through the pouch.

Generally, all NSAIDS should be avoided, as they are severe gastric irritants. A few days may be allowed by your doc, if there is no choice – but be very cautious. A few people may have no choice but to take NSAIDs, for severe arthritis, for instance. They should be carefully followed.

Avoid taking any medications right at bedtime – take them one hour before, to avoid reflux.

</DIR>Problems

<DIR>If you vomit, stop eating. Have nothing more for 1-2 hours, then you may have liquids again. Have liquids only for the next meal, to allow your stoma time to rest and heal. Vomiting causes irritation and swelling of the stoma.

Think of why you vomited, so you can prevent it the next time:

Eating too fast? Too big a bite? Not chewing well enough? Drinking with or within an hour after eating? Choosing poor band foods? Didn’t stop eating soon enough?

If you feel as if something is really stuck in your stoma, don’t panic. There is no immediate

danger. DO NOT try to eat or drink anything more, as this will make it worse. Put a warm heating pad on your chest to relax the stoma. If you continue with problems for more than a few hours, call your surgeon.

</DIR></DIR>PLEASE Don’t Despair! These may seem like a lot of rules and guidelines, but they will all become automatic, with time and practice. Most of us have many years of poor eating habits to change, and this cannot be done overnight. Remember, what you WERE doing led to your obesity, so there must be changes made if you want to lose weight and get healthy again, and then MAINTAIN your loss.

These goals are all the IDEAL – but No one can do everything perfectly, and the Band does not require perfection. YOU CAN DO THIS!!

A few of these points may differ slightly from your own doctor’s suggestions, so discuss them with him/her. All the above incorporates all the basic band rules from the manufacturer, from the Inamed Patient Guide, from the Inamed classes for Band professionals, from general nutritiona basic needs, and from my own successful band journey, as well as the great many Bandsters I have both taught and learned from over the past 3+ years. Band knowledge is still evolving and improving every day.

The Period Before the First Fill

Most people find that their hunger returns a few days after surgery. This is entirely normal. The band is not working, for most, until they get to a good fill level. You may be unable to eat much at a time for a few days or even a few weeks, until the surgical swelling goes down. It’s essential, still, to get in enough fluids – at least 64 oz a day. If you cannot, please call your surgeon. You also need some good calories and protein to heal and have good energy, so choose good foods as allowed on your post-op diet.

Many are able to eat as much as before banding, until they have a good fill. Many do not lose weight in the first 6-8 weeks, unless they are very careful to choose low-cal foods and start with good exercise.

Before a good fill, you will probably be able to eat the foods that will cause trouble later. But start to learn and practice all the Band rules even now, so there are fewer sudden changes needed later.

C Sandy Richards, BA, BSN, MN,

Clinical Nurse Specialist

Dr. Pedro Kuri, banded 3/25/03

Maintaining at goal for> 2.5 years as of July, 2006

www.BandsterME.com - Bandster Motivation and Education Site, and "LapBand Success" Guide Imagery CD’s for Bandster behavioral changes

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SmarterBandsters/ -

Sandy and Dan’s online Band teaching forum – personal answers to all band questions and concerns

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dr_Kuri/ - Dr. Kuri’s private online teaching and support Forum

MoonshadowRN@yahoo.com - Sandy’s email address

<DIR>

</DIR>

[silry 0]

audree - i went to the BandsterME.com website. did you buy the cds?